Anyone else have times of hopeless?

Depression
#1

Do you ever feel hopeless? Do you ever wonder in your dark moments if empathy, compassion and generousity of spirit is a dying atttribute you have and so many more people who outnumber you are becoming more devoid of?

I am surrounded by people who, if not narcissistic, are at the very least incredibly self-centred, self-absorbed, selfish and dont care how they negatively affect or hurt other people. I work with at-risk teens, who are more narcissistic than your run of the mill self-centred teen.

I am still recovering my hope and faith in the world, in love and in partnership after having been in a highly dysfunctional and one sided relationship with a narcissist/psychopath.

I’ve been looking for support in, and wanting to give support to a forum which has been inundated with nasty, malicious and abusive bullying behaviour and lost faith it could ever be anything else.

I have a family member who is reducing the quality of my aging mothers life by being dependent on her in these, her last years which should be her best and easiest and reaping rewards for a long life of hard work…and this family member is upset whenever anyone points out he should be independent and helping her life to be better, not worse.

Even across the world, in a larger more political arena than my little slice of the universe, Benazir Bhutto, who clearly wants whats better for her people, and whom the people wanted to return to her country, is assassinated for who knows what political gain of someone else.

and theres so much more, isnt there? so much other evidence that people like me (and you?) are strangers in a strange land.

Its hard some days to have hope, that people with empathy, people who care about EVERYONE winning, not just themselves, are not a dying breed.

It perplexes me how I can possibly save my son from becoming self-centred and lacking in empathy when this is the world he lives in…or at the very least that he would be at a disadvantage being a compassionate spirit in a world thats constantly using and abusing people like him for their own gains.

#2

DD----

To thine own self be true, for it must follow as dost the night the
day, that canst not then be false to any man…

On Dec 28, 2007, at 12:51 PM, DoubtingDiva wrote:

#3

thanks for your contributions WY

I appreciated it

#4

You’re welcome.

I condemn the assassination attempt. I don’t find taking out bystanders worthy of any cause.

#5

haha

see? now youre being cute and funny again.

#6

Sadly, I am reading this as I can’t get my name off the list…

Prima, I am so sorry for you…Please,
I feel like you have lost hope in the common man… I had my
new step family over and they were
WONDERFUL and RESPECTFUL. It DOES exist… I love you
Prima…My advice, go to a Quaker
Service…They are as anti-narcissistic as it
gets…Go, and experience what I experienced for
my 2-12 grade years…Sit in the pew and
evaluate this religion…Then take yoga…
It soothes the soul…Smoke some Mary-Jane as well (Sorry George
Bush if you listening) …So many people are
assholes…just ignore them…Stop
letting them penetrate…TELL YOUR SON IT IS NO WAY TO LIVE AND
MAKE IT A PRIORITY…

Let go, let go, let go…It is ok to let this fucked-upedness
go…
You my friend will be a happier person…
On Dec 27, 2007, at 6:09 PM, PrimaDonna wrote:

#7

I am agreeing with you Prima, but only in that let them DO
IT…but for GOD’S SAKE, don’t engage
in it UNLESS you are being abused…And then when you are don’t let
them penetrate…But
if they do pentetrate, spiritually, emotionally, physically, KICK
THEM IN THE NUTS…And
don’t ABSORB the abuse… Like if there was a mop that had too
much water in it…and
an abuser took a bucket and poured it all over the
floor…DON’T ABORB it…Go over
to the other mops and roll your eyes and disengage your water into
your bucket and go have
a few cocktails with you friend who ENJOYS you…

On Dec 27, 2007, at 7:54 PM, PrimaDonna wrote:

#8

I am sad for you Prima Donna… I am going to go soak in a
bubble bath and ponder your perceptions…
I understand where you are coming from…But I want you to feel
better…I wish we could
meet for a glass of wine…or coffee…

Love is work… Love is not “love”. Love is painful
work…And if the man doesn’t want to work, you
have got to move on…There will be one who wants to
work…And if there isn’t, I think that is ok too…You
seem capable of loving just who you are…Period…

Movies to watch: Something’s Gotta Give, 40 Year Old Virgin-- Up
lifting, hopeful, against narcissism

Rent them, get some popcorn, and a nice bottle of cabernet/
shiraz…and be sad for a while…
Life can REALLY SUCK…

On Dec 27, 2007, at 8:56 PM, PrimaDonna wrote:

#9

Bup,

youre a dear. Thank you for your suggestion. I hope you wont be upset when I tell you, that may be of some soothing, but it doesnt change the state of the world does it? I mean, I chose the work I did, I chose the partner I did, I am politically active, I go out of my way to love my mother up when I can, I put effort into doing the tough job of not always being the nice guy with my son while teaching how to be a good youn g man with a moral compass, precisely because I have hope that he, and they and the world could be better if we bring our goodness to it, not our selfishness.

But honestly…some days like this I wonder if its a lost cause. Soemtimes I wonder if it isnt a losing battle. Sometimes I wonder if I’m not Pollyannish, or idealistic or naive.

What does it mean when people who are narcissistic, or self-absorbed, who want what they want when they want it regardless of how it negatively affects others, when they want to use and abuse others in order for their own gain…what does it mean when they end up winning?

I dont believe in karma. I dont have magical thinking, I really do think, especially tonight, that in a world thats becoming increasingly more me-me-me that to be beautifully believing in the value of empathy and community and mutual support and living your life for something bigger than yourself, I put myself and my son at a terrible disadvantage. Soemtimes it seems as though the sharks of this world get more and more breaks, excuses, second chances, and rewards for their bad behaviours.

(sigh)

#10

I think you need a life change…I am not sure where you
live… But a life change…
Start painting…Start walking through the
woods…Accept that there are fuckers out there,
and then MOVE RIGHT AROUND THEM…They are
FUCKERS…Don’t take the leap
into this world…Leap OUT of this world, but find some people who
value you for who YOU are…BUT FIRST VALUE YOURSELF. STICK UP FOR
YOUR MFING SELF. IT IS NOT A SELFISH ACT TO PRESERVE YOUR INTENTIONS
FOR THOSE WHO NEED THE JELLY…Stop thinking about
them…Face the dragon in your life (WHO IS YOUR DRAGON?), and
then LET IT GO…It is TOO painful a place where you
are…I am concerned about you…Walk
away from manipulation…Literally, walk
away…Maybe it is time for a change…

On Dec 27, 2007, at 7:10 PM, PrimaDonna wrote:

#11

(hugging Bup)

you havent seen me stick up for myself?
aww sweety, I’m pretty scrappy when I’m fightin the good fight…my sticking up for myself consistently over 8 years is what drove my exN away.

I’m ever more a fighter than a victim…but it doesnt ever seem to you that we’re getting more and more outnumbered?

I mean I know you dont feel like that now…but havent you ever?

I doubt I’ll feel like this next week or next month or maybe even tomorrow morning…but I feel like this now.

Havent you ever wished you could just become a narcissist too? grab what you want, to hell with anyone else? not even for a moment?

There are times now when I remember my exN choking me around the throat, and I wish I would have the chance to do the very same thing to him. But I wont ever…because I’m not a N…but would it be nice to just make the choice to lie, cheat, betray, take, use, abuse whomever and whatever I want…to just live according to every whim…and just not care enough to have a conscience bother me?

There are times I’d like to tell verbal abusers and bullies EXACTLY what I think of them…but I dont…cuz I’d find it hard to live with myself the next day…but wouldnt it be nice to not lose any sleep?

Think about it…those N’s have it made. The only time they ever have to feel uncomfortable is when theyre caught. Until that moment, its like being a kid in a candy store. Like the world and everyone in it, is their oyster.

man…that must be nice.

#12

Hey guys, I don’t know if you failed to see Christina’s new focus for this site. It is on the main page for NPD up near the top.

“This is now a debate/ open discussion only group. Other NPD groups have been opened for support. Please contact info@careplace.com if you need help finding alternative groups.”

I think she has an excellent idea to avoid what Trisha describes as a site inundated with nasty, malicious and abusive bullying behavior. Maybe the best hope for restoration of her faith is to take threads like this to those boards created for support, and to leave this one open for debate of NPD.

#13

I agree…That survival of the fittest THANG…They do
usually get what they want…I am a
wee bit scrappy myself these days…Thus, my exit after the SAM
scrap…I feel better because of it and absolutely I
would LOVE to be an N once in a while and be able to STEAL to
decorate my home…but it is unfortunately not in our
NATURE… And we are definitely better off in the long
run…But the thing is you have GOT TO not let it penetrate your
SOUL…Your soul is clean…That, in the end is what you
want…
On Dec 27, 2007, at 7:35 PM, PrimaDonna wrote:

#14

Gaye,

I’m not looking for support.

In fact I’m offering up that perhaps being a supportive person in a world full of bullies and abusers and N’s is…an idealistic idea at best, and a waste of time at worst.

#15 
*
*

  PrimaDonna

2 hours ago, PrimaDonna wrote:

Gaye,

I’m not looking for support.

In fact I’m offering up that perhaps being a supportive person in a world full of bullies and abusers and N’s is…an idealistic idea at best, and a waste of time at worst.

Trisha,

Did you mistype or are you still playing bully game that Blitzen and I are one and the same? I thought I had already expressed to you that I consider you an abuser. As far as narcissism, everyone has that quality within their personality. It is to some degree, a matter of self preservation and keeping oneself alive - there is nothing sinful or wrong with that. Now would you disagree with from your experience with your ex-N?

Bup,

There is a difference in people abusing you and in saying or doing things to you contrary to what you would like to hear. In the latter situations, when you try to make those people “abusers” rather than dealing with their confrontations and negative feelings towards you, you actually are being the abuser. I think Blitzen and Sam were trying to tell you this.

#16

I totally agree with what you say about me… Thanks
Susie…I believe in confronting the minute
it happens…Thanks
On Dec 27, 2007, at 8:15 PM, susiejo wrote:

#17

PD,

Everybody feels hopeless once in a while, so you’re never alone in that.  Do you really think the world is full of Ns and that narcissism is on the rise?  Is it the world that has changed, or is it you?  I don’t know your situation, so I’m only speaking from my own experience.  After being exposed to NPD do we just become more attuned to narcissistic behaviors?  Do we just become more unforgiving and accept less from the world?  In my case I do.  After being exposed to such a lack of unacceptable behavior for so long, I find it hard to accept anything from anybody anymore.  I even wonder if I’m too hard on people and if I’m expecting people to be too perfect. 

From where I sit nowadays it’s as though everyone is a narcissist:  My mother, my father, my brother, my friends, my coworkers.   They all seem to lie or use emotions to manipulate in some way.  The people in line in front of me in the grocery store are rude and heatless wenches… the drivers on the highway are rage filled psychos.  Am I not allowing people to be fallible?  Do we apply narcissistic traits to anybody who believes in something other than we do or has a different point of view?   

I’m very nihilistic.  I believe everything we are exists in our own brains.  Everyone who bothers us, everyone who hurts us, they don’t actually physically transmit and beam bad feelings into us.  We create those ourselves. 

Really though, my ex would lie, cheat, and steal to get what she wanted.  Her lack of conscience gave her an advantage in obtaining what she wanted, but only in the short term.  I guess it true, cheaters do win.  But are they all really winning?  Even though my ex had an ability to step on people to get to the top, she had serious disadvantages.  Nobody believes her, nobody trusts her, and she has no support and no friends and lives in constant fear that her life will catch up to her and she’ll fall apart.  Is that really an advantage?  Is she winning?

She will never have the things I do.  She won’t even understand what they mean.   She literally will never understand what love or compassion is, and she will never share it or receive it.

Being an N is great for getting things in the short term, but in the long term… its suffering.  Think of the things they can never have.  They aren’t superhuman or the next step in evolution. They have no idea what they are missing out on. 

 

 

#18

Gaye,

I’m not going to engage with you in yet another battle royale.

If you dont want to accept the topic I am discussing then by all means bow out and respond to people whose topics you like better.

WYouth,
Of course its mostly in my perception of how things are. When I think the world and everyone in it are beautiful I’m far more tolerant and forgiving. I concede that tonight I dont find the world is a beautiful place and so my eyes are focussing on all the circumstances that are bloody awful.

I dont think everyone is a N. I just, tonight, dont have hope that the growing trend of addictions, greed, insensitivity, power at any cost, manipulating a country with fear, bullying a world through intimidation and lies and interference will get any better.

I’m disillusioned tonight…disheartened…disappointed…disengaged from the pulse of the world that may be good and natural, and instead feeling the growing tide of something sinister…and one cant fight a tide, can one?

love…what is it?

not just in my heart for a man who was content to use people (including me)…but for each other, for our family, for our community, for strangers on the other side of the world who sufffer. what is it?

love isnt just about wanting to have and to hold…its about wanting to nurture isnt it? wanting to nurture anothers freedom, growth, fulfillment.

how is it there are SO MANY forces that 'want" and dont give a damn about their fellow human’s freedom, growth or fulfillment?

…I’m disillusioned.

#19

Phoenix, Trish, PrimaDonna, whatever,

I am discussing with you the topic you started, but as I have informed you, Christina has designated this board as one for debate, not “emotional support”. You are raising the issue of whether the world should be some “Lucy in the sky with diamonds” utopia, as opposed to the REAL world that it is. Sorry I never get into such drugs.

If you want to pursue the topic on this board, than that means you are not going to go crying to mommy if your “feelings” get slighted with the immature naivety suggested in your positions, and when they are countered for their intellectual shallowness.

Am I correct that you understand the format for this board?

#20

Really though, my ex would lie, cheat, and steal to get what she wanted.  Her lack of conscience gave her an advantage in obtaining what she wanted, but only in the short term.  I guess it true, cheaters do win.  But are they all really winning?  Even though my ex had an ability to step on people to get to the top, she had serious disadvantages.  Nobody believes her, nobody trusts her, and she has no support and no friends and lives in constant fear that her life will catch up to her and she’ll fall apart.  Is that really an advantage?  Is she winning?

 

Wyouth, maybe because she is a N that hasnt figured out how to win?  My exN knows and is extremely adept at making sure he's fooled almost everyone, and those he doesnt fool, he knows how to be slippery and get away with it.  He has tons of friends, theyre all shallow, but he's party central, he makes people laugh, he's got 'connections", he knows how to fake concern, and how to fake loyalty.  People who dont get too close do trust him, because he only screws people over enough times that they figure him out, when theyre very close and emotionally or otherwise invested in him.

My exN has no conscience, and he is proud of it. He considers having a conscience to be a weakness, and if youre going to be a leadr...a POWERFUL leader, a conscience would be a liability, not an asset.  He doesnt slose sleep over anything he does that hurts people.  In fact, the more people he hurts, cons, betrays, lies convincingly to, manipulates, uses, gets away with stuff behind their back, the more powerful and smart and invincible he feels.

 

Its a win situation for him.  He has absolutely no fear that anything will catch up to him.  None.

 

Why am I going on and on about him?  Because I'm seeing that in tonight's news...because I see it in my community.  I think he's right.  You dont get to be a corporate winner, or a powerful politician without it do you?

 

How can you survive when sharks are all around you, if you yourself are not a shark? the winning shark is the most cunning predatorial shark in the sea right?

Unfortunately, that sounds to me like a winner...doesnt it to you?