did i miss something? what is with the hate all of a sudden? this was a discussion of different POV’s on one’s interpretation of spirituality and/or faith dealing with suicide… and all of a sudden there is a personal attack on someone here… so someone please tell me what i’m missing here… because i am just confused now
This situation can provide an opportunity for growth and healing, or it can deteriorate into a cyber brawl. I have a pretty good idea that by simply mentioning the above, readers will reconsider their reaction to the last few posts.
Since I began writing this, the somewhat inflammatory posts have been removed. I am very impressed with how quickly the board was moderated. Still, I’d like to say something about how I would like to see folks respond, when faced with what appears to be a verbal assault.
When religion or politics is discussed, people become passionate and easily offended, because they feel that their belief system is a major part of their identity. Therefore, when a concept or belief is rejected, the individual holding that belief often feels rejected as well. Today, I believe the individual who reacted so strongly, was probably feeling defensive, while at the same time feeling an urge to protect the feelings of those who feel that suicide is indeed forgivable. Hostility was expressed in the post, but I believe the underlying feelings were of pain and frustration. It was suggested that there was hate expressed in the message, but I did not find a basis for that assumption.
In my line of work, I have been accosted by many angry and physically threatening individuals. Incredibly, none of those situations escalated into something physical or required that the patient be restrained. I believe my good fortune was in part, due to a habit of looking beyond the anger and name-calling, and helping the individual express her or his true feelings and needs, as well as providing whatever assistance I could to either resolve the issues, or help the patient accept what could not be changed. I will not take major credit for my amazing safety record. I believe God and angels also had a lot to do with it.
Sometimes, people who are depressed are not as polite as they would be if they felt better. His response was inappropriate. It’s a pretty safe guess that he took the “going to hell” comment very personally. He probably has a lot more to say on the subject. If he finds himself in the company of those who are willing to listen, and respond to pain with kindness, perhaps his future postings and ours will lead to positive outcomes.
When someone enters the forum, and takes verbal potshots at others, what is the harm in offering the individual “safe harbor” for his or her feelings? I realize that we also can be overly sensitive, in pain or angry, and may ourselves say the wrong thing at times, so let’s be as safe harbor for each other as well.
Have a blessed day, Aaron
I have to admit to a certain level of frustration, as there are so often hurt feelings & angry remarks & even very nasty diatribes here. But I think it is in part the nature of this website…most of us are here because of emotional, mental,spiritual or physical pain (or any combination of the aforementioned). We are maybe hypersensitive, etc.,etc.
But I was thoroughly interested in this conversation re beliefs in God/heaven/suicide & now feel like it is just another battleground.
PS Safe harbors should be safe for all the sailors. While I don’t disagree that the verbal potshooter needs protection, it should not be at the expense of the community as a whole. Don’t forget that the person shooting is hitting another person who needs protection.
That’s why I ended my message with the suggestion that we be safe harbor for each other. It is not necessary for this to become a battleground. Keep listening. Keep caring. This forum can be a catalyst to the occurrence of miracles. It probably already has been.
You’ll never have all poeole agree on all things. tThats what makes us individuals. But we can all agree that we can disagree. Without having to clarify what makes you feel justified. We are all trying to survive in this crazy world. You know the saying…" Opinions are like --------, and we all have one" So whatif its different, What would this world be like if all flowers were the same color? Boring !!! Or we all ate the same dish for dinner every nite, My tastbuds would go into a coma ! So lets lighten up and just care and love one to another. Geeze no wonder we can’t get along with other countries , we can’t even get along with ourselves in this one. Lighten up , we’re only here for a short while…either way !!!
i believe in God. I dont know whats beyond this place but it seems to me that we go on in some capacity. whether that be spirit or energy form. I was raised to believe in reincarnation and i still think that it makes alot of sense. no i dont think somebody that commits suicide will be punished because god is all loving and forgiving. would you punish your child for that? its interesting because i go on alot of these ghost hunting outings and ive heard alot of people talk about having seen spirits. i cant say im not a skeptic but some of their stories are quite convincing.ive never seen an actual ghost but many people have. maybe thats some proof for the afterlife.
I can definately understand where you are coming from. I was raised devoutly Catholic and I have recently questioned whether I have purposely sinned or was it my depression. I believe there is a part of Depression that drives us to making wrong decisions. As a result we must live with these decisions which may be God’s way of having us serve a penance. I do believe in forgiveness and do believe God has a plan. The important thing is to not give in to the anxiety brought on by Depression. I have given into this anxiety and have paid the price many times. Now I have to learn to understand its warning signs and I pray to God to help me do it. God can give us the strength if you let God work for you. That is it easy to say and hard to let happen. I think it all comes down to faith. To have faith in God and let God help. Sorry if I am droning on here…
Sometimes it comes down to trusting in our faith, and in the guidance from within, or believing what we’ve been taught about it. That’s what I’m working on.
Yes, there most definately is a Heaven. The problem is that we try to perceive in human terms. We don’t know what Heaven is like - only by what God has promised. I’m 55 and I’ve been to Hell and back when I became suicidal and was hospitalized twice between Nov. 15th and December 26th. I was off my meds, my husband and I were not getting along, I did not have a job, my sister was dying of pancreatic cancer. Consider this - 20 years ago if you asked a doctor or scientist if there was a Heaven or God, most would say “No”. If you ask them today - Most will say, “Yes”
I started this forum when I was in alot of pain and had really lost hope. I know that it is a very personal, sensitive, and passionate topic. That was not my thought at the time. I was just so discouraged and desperate to share my confusion with someone. I want you to know that some of your words have comforted me and some of your words have given me food for thought. Thank you for being willing to share what is so personal. Thank you too for the messages of concern and encouragement that some of you privately shared with me. I am feeling a little better right now. I appreciate those who responded in kindness and although I never saw the deleted postings, I apologize for any arguments and further pain that this topic brought to the surface for others.
You have nothing to apologize for!! You introduced a great topic here & I am sure that there is noone at Careplace who has not asked him/herself the same questions you did. (I think that most people ask these questions).
What was deleted had nothing to do with you, but was a response to someone else’s post. The response was inappropriate, but does not diminish this forum in any way. Please do not hestitate to post another forum!!
I hope you continue to feel better!
Hi, I am not afraid to enter on this sticky topic, so here goes, my years as a suicide hotline counselor exposed me to this question almost daily!
After asking the question, why do you want to know, and “are you thinking of suicide”, I would determine if it was a philosophical question, or if I had a crisis on my hands.
assuming that you are ok invisible3, it is my understanding that God loves all, and deals witheach person on thier own level, wherever they are, however they are, he loves unconditionally.
I feel that is probably true, I also know that I am less concerned about what happens after I am gone, as I am before I go, and is suicide unforgivable? I tend to think not. If my child purposefully jumps out of a tree knowing full well he will hurt himself, do I throw him in a ditch of condemnation, or do I continue to love him and nurse his wounds? Comparing God to man is never a good idea, but I think it illustrates what I mean.
We are meant to care for hurting people, not judge them, say they are going to hell, or whatever, it simply isnt our place, everyone is entitled to thier own belief…guess we will only know who is right after we go huh!
If someone is hurting bad enough to want to die, what they really want is the pain to stop…that is it! if the pain of life and living stops, what is the point of ending it all? so to stop and figure out what hurts and how to help it to stop hurting is really the trick.
We who suffer from depression are chemically crippleds and need help from others with that… dont we?!
Suicide is not a solution, it is a sad and tragic way of relieving pain. As a survivor of suicide, and suicide attempt, I feel empowered to say that
I think God loves me and my loved one and cries with us in our pain. I think God loves all who hurt no matter who they are and what they have done… and as painful as it is sometijmes, life is still a gift, opr at the least something we must continue on with whether we like it or not.
I hope I havent bored anyone with this long book…
love and peace to all,
Clover
there cant be a god or heaven, all there is and will be is pain for most of us. nothing changes that, the memories dont go away, pain like a knife slicing me to pieces
Tell me about it, either here or in private message.
Hello to all,
My name is Catfish. I am, or try to be a Christian. I do believe there is a Heaven. And those who do committ suicide do not go to Hell, as they are ill with depression; they pass over correctly. There is more to this life than living as a human being on this earth. This is just a stepping stone. The best is yet to be. I do believe in Hell to. Jesus forgave all sins when He died for us on the Cross. All we have to do is believe and ask for forgiveness. And try to lead correct lives. We get there by grace. All of us fall short. I struggle most of the time with the idea of suicide, and sometimes get angry that I did not make it when I tried in 1998. Part of me is just tired of this world, and being in this physical body that has depression and pain. I know in the next life, that will be gone forever, there will be no more pain or disease of mind or body for me. I will be the way I was meant to be. I will know my true purpose for my being, I will not be confused about what my talents are, or what I’m supposed to be doing with myself. My self esteem will be full. My happiness will 100%. I will be a complete person. Not disabled any longer. I asked my priest about the suicide thing and hell. He said if someone is depressed and takes their own life, they would not go to hell. As they were in a state of depression. I am not getting into a debate here either. This is between God and the person. No one else. So who has the right to judge? No human on the earth has a right to judge another spirtually. There are pieces of heaven here on the earth. And I cling to them, as in Heaven it will like that 100%. My son, and husband who I love. Where I live, my home and family. The winds, and breezes, and ocean. I guess I got off the topic. I am a sensitive. I have no right to judge anyone for whatever they do. And that includes suicide. I have seen much as a nurse, and I do not judge. In the cases of suicide, the people have been in extreme pain, and I do not blame them. Every situation is different. And I think for everyone, it is a personal decison. No one knows what they would in a extreme situation until they are faced with it.
Sincerely,
Catfish
I just wanted to write to say I do not believe in hell except for hell on earth. I do not think people who kill themselves will be or need to be punished. If that keeps someone from killing themselves and that belief helps them, good. But I believe God/Goddess is loving. I know this is a touchy topic. The god I believe in would never punish someone for trying to be out of pain. Please don’t say mean things to me because I said this.