PUNKy ~ Did you get into my diary and read it? I said those EXACT words to my Mother this past Friday! Freaky Deaky! I am waiting to hear. I am trying to pick my jaw up off the keyboard so I can type. HUMMMM… are you my mirror?
In response to Lindystar’s comment, in a cultural context, treating others as they would like to be treated is really treating them as you would like to be treated, if you are talking about respect for individual cultural values. If I respect your choice to celebrate a pagan holiday, I believe you should respect my choice to celebrate a Christian one. It’s good to be supportive of individual expression, even if we don’t agree with the “other,” (within reason). However, I doubt if I would support cannibalism.
The Golden Rule assumes one has a decent level of self-esteem. If one feels contempt for self, then the Rule isn’t very helpful.
I served time as a people pleaser, but only after developing a degree of hope that some people could be pleased. To put a slight variation on a typical quote, you can please some of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all the people anytime. People pleasing comes from a desire for companionship, or possibly fear of rejection. Sometimes genuine caring occurs simultaneously with people pleasing. One risk associated with the habit of people pleasing is loss of self-esteem. Compromising personal integrity to please others, can leave a person feeling weak and of little value.
Those who position themselves as recipients of a people pleaser's efforts, usually do not respect their benefactor, even if they do like the person.
Then there are some who will spontaneously and unconditionally love others. These individuals are sometimes misidentified as people pleasers. That is unfortunate because, as inferred above, those who are perceived as people pleasers tend to get walked on. It's tragic that the love of truly caring individuals is often taken for granted. In our consumer oriented culture, relatively little value is placed in something that exists in abundance, hence, when the friendship of an open hearted person comes easily, many will shrug it off, ignore the offer, and assume that such an opportunity will always be there, to take advantage of “later.” Later may not come, and the priceless gift of a lifetime is forever lost.
Lots of folks really don't understand unconditional love, in fact they may find the behavior associated with it infuriating, just as a petulant child becomes angry if denied. Sometimes that love is expressed in the form of saying “NO!” Sometimes the highest form of love that can be expressed toward a person is to refuse to be taken advantage of by that individual. Protecting one’s self from harm has the added benefit of preventing the “offender” from committing yet another act that he or she will deeply regret in the future.
Some expectations are okay though. For example, it’s good to expect that a solution exists for every problem, or that every individual would behave decently if she or he truly believed that doing so would be survivable.
This is a really good thread. Thanks! Many hugs, Aaron
Spiritriver~ As you know I worked a long time with at risk youth in Calif. so Multiculturalism was a standard, diversity the norm. In fact I was a minority the majority of the time. smile I wanted to comment on the “Treat people as they would like to be treated” statement too. I understood that to be a cultural statement too. I cannot treat someone I do not know how they want to be treated. Nice little nugget to think on Lindystar.
But Spiritriver, I did just as you said, I feared hurting someone, reprisals, everything you said I did. I can see that now. I love learning and growing.
Thanks for that opportunity. You illuminate my path. Hugs for all RIVER~
Yes, that was meant as a cultural comment, as it was said to me by an African-American social worker. I have thought on that nugget for quite a while, lol. Treating others with RESPECT is a great way to go.
Are you kidding, River - you said the exact same words to your Mother? I will have to get into your diary to figure out which words, as I wrote a lot of them, but I suspect it’s the words I wrote in quotes? (OH NOW THAT IS FUNNY, RIVER, I ACTUALLY WENT TO YOUR PAGE TO READ YOUR “DIARY” NOT KNOWING YOU REALLY MEANT YOUR DIARY AT HOME, AND I WAS READING AND READING AND THINKING “I DIDN’T SAY ANY OF THIS, DID I?”… NOT THAT WHAT I READ WASN’T GOOD, IT ALL WAS, BUT I WAS SO CONFUSED… THANK YOU FOR UNINTENTIONALLY GIVING ME MY BEST LAUGH TODAY 
)
This thread is so much more than I even expected it to be!!! Thanks so much for filling in some blanks for me, and perhaps even letting me fill some in for you… and mostly just for participating in this open, honest discussion
Punky~ This is how I’d love to communicate and learn. I enjoy long threads that wind and turn and take off to places unexpected. Thanks it’s been so good! Let’s do it some more!!! grin~
Here was my expectation for the day - that my insurance would cover my antidepressant / antianxiety medication just like they have all year,
I was wrong.
Now what? I’ll have to ask for help! Bugger of a day!
And here was something unexpected… I had written a family member a letter stating I could not attend the holidays with abusive family members (she knows EXACTLY why and has both witnessed and enabled this behavior by them towards me for YEARS)…today I received her response - she wrote me back saying she guessed she could understand how I feel, but “I (she) hate how it affects ME (her).” Yes, I hate how people abusing me affects her too??? Apparently, she had an “it’s all about me” moment at my expense?
That was not what I expected… in keeping with our topic 
LIFE!
I suspect that your response is one she did not expect.
Instead, in your own sweet way, you let her know,
that you expect respect!
Hugs, Aaron
Damn...almost a poet!
“Treating others with RESPECT is a great way to go.”
Good one, Aaron, and TRUE
Ah, who cares what dysfunctional family members expect? They might as well get used to expecting the unexpected from me (I know this makes the unexpected expected, but hey, I’m in recovery… I get to have these moments )
Can I just reiterate how much I love this thread and the (what I consider) magical posts contained herein? It’s amazing all the thoughts and feelings we have, and to share them in this manner, and raise very pertinent questions about our lives… it’s just fantastic!!!
Here are my EXPECTATIONS of MYSELF over this holiday season… I will NOT fall back into old patterns… I WILL enjoy the people in my life who treat me with love, kindness, and respect… I WILL take breaks when the sadness becomes overwhelming… I will think of those who have passed on before me with love and gratitude, but will NOT become enmeshed in the grief and sadness… I will TRY and TRY and TRY again
You will succeed and succeed and succeed again! There are plenty of people who would appreciate your presence. Consider not going anywhere this season that involves the possibility of being irritated by family or friends. Just spend your time with yourself, or trusted friends. Consider going to a nursing home and holding a hand, or whatever feels right.
With but a couple of bumps in the road, I survived the holiday season and all that entails (i.e. dealing with people / family)… how about each of you?
I hope you are well and making the progress you’d like to make, and having success in each aspect of your lives!!!
I keep expecting that the pain will get less, and while it hasn’t gotten less, per se, it has gotten different… and even that is better than what I had!!!
Hey All~
SpiritRiver I did as you suggested and stayed clear of the irritating folks, and Punky as you, I shocked the hell out of them. They piously stated they would “continue to pray for me”, Joy Joy!! They can whip out the Christianity to assist in keeping any resolution impossible, and all secrets safe and quiet, all in God’s name! I was kind, didn’t loose control of myself, cry, attempt to explain for the upteenth time, or rationalize. Though guilt still tugs at me from time to time. I had some great times with Sammi, she is a doll, and the dearest friend we laughed till we peed, and Phoenix to the rescue kept those lonely nights full as we shared and laughed. Kate and Aaron dropped off food for me, good bananna bread, yum. So Punkster, I MADE IT IN ONE PIECE and no lightening bolts struck me down! LOL
I sure am happy at myself…smile…
I am PROUD to read the above post, River! Good for you!!!!! Wonderful progress :)
(River, I had to add to this post by saying I have found, through personal experience, that it is better for me to be alone during the holidays or any other time than it is for me to be with abusers... for many years (most years of my life actually), I always spent time with my "extended family" because I felt I "should", I "had to", I "better", I "must"... I let the guilt and blame they loaded on me sink into my heart and soul and weigh me down... it has only been within the last two or three years that I have been staying away from their holiday functions, and I have found, though it still hurts because I suppose deep down I wish things could change and they would learn to love me and treat me well, that I fare MUCH BETTER without them... it's still somewhat hard, and there's niggles of guilt here and there, but overall, it gets easier with each passing holiday... I hope it becomes the same for you... it's WAY NICER to be alone in a room with myself than to be in a room filled with people who like to antagonize, intimidate, abuse, belittle, harass, embarrass, and humiliate!!!!)
Ya know, I really don’t mind being alone. I can putter 24 hours away so fast. And I haven’t really gotten started on the REAL puttering I could do…LOL
When my divorce is final, sniff sniff, I will be able to set up a crafty puttering sorta area. I have some major beading to do. It’s in my head.
I find I work in my head first, then take action. It looks like periods of inactivity and periods of lots of activity. Of course THEY like to call my creative thinking process LAZINESS and my creative doings THEY refer to as SELFISH. Oh well I can’t win but winning is NOT what I want, I’m not competitive, I want win/win. Miss perfect world…HAHAHAHA
Ya know I do think that communication via internet is good. A great training ground. For socialization. You get to learn the social “rules” of talk without the distractions of mixed signals etc… I like that people can vent and express their feelings openly and hopefully all will “guide” one another to easier ways of getting our point across, what works and doesn’t work in communication. wat’do you think?
The internet is a strange and wonderful thing… there are many things I appreciate about communicating here this way… but since the “tone” and other such subtle nuances of speaking (even body language!) are lost (tone is much more important that I ever realized UNTIL I started communicating online), often things are misunderstand, misinterpreted, mistaken… I have had people become very angry with me when I told them I didn’t like something they said or did to me - and I meant just that and nothing more… (i.e. I didn’t like it, please don’t do it again, thank you and have a nice day)… but what they “heard” (i.e. read) was perceived through their mind in a very negative, hateful, or angry tone on my part (which was not ME at all, but THEIR interpretation of my words!)… so it’s a touchy thing sometimes!
Also, some people have a tendency to abuse a medium such as this… but alas, people are people (“People are people, So why should it be, You and I should get along so awfully, People are people, So why should it be, You and I should get along so awfully”… sorry Depeche Mode song, and a good one at that!)
You are right about THEY - they call me lazy and selfish too and I think they can go work very hard on themselves for awhile and get to the business of LEAVING ME (YOU / US) ALONE
Being such a visual person, I often get caught up in the body language, which so often contradicts the spoken word. Sometimes because they are not being truthful but often simply a pattern/habit formed over life of sitting, standing, holding their mouth, etc. It’s the same as the radio. I can hear things more clearly on the radio than on TV as I am distracted by the visuals. I hope to become a better communicator with my words as my body cooperates well if I can say the right thing… and tone. Good Heavens I hope I don’t have my Mom’s tone. Whew. Tone can make I love you sound like a death threat when really it was a raspy throat. LOL