Is it possible for a person with NPD to love another person?
I am so glad you asked this question! I ask people this question all the time. My Dad was diagnosed with NPD. He is a sterotypical womanizer/cheat and has been married 4 times.
He claims he has only really loved two women. They weren’t his wives. They were two short lived relationships where he got dumped. As far as I know, these are the only women who s broke up with him. So these women are the “loves of his life.”
He doesn’t love my brother and me. Every so often he tries to contact me and rekindle our so-called father/daughter relationship. However, he was never was interested in being a father when I lived with him and he was my only parent. He only cares about me when I am not returning his calls. It is like we are in the 11th grade.
When I was a child he didn’t take me school, to the doctor, attend my graduation, and even bother give me my shots. He was bad about providing basic meals and food for my brother and I. He told me he couldn’t afford for me to go to college. He is wealthy so money wasn’t a problem.
He definetly acts the father part for others. He brags about my brother and my accomplishments to outsiders. He even lies and tells people we have done more than we actually have. He tells his girlfriends that he and I are very close, but the reason I don’t come around is because I am too busy.
Of course, he belittles my intelligence in front of my face even though I am only months away from getting a Phd. He is ridiculously disrespectful to my brother and our grandmother (my dad’s mom). He claimed he loved his own mother, but he stole from her and she ended up dying penniless. Much of the source of my dad’s wealth comes from stealing from my grandmother.
I haven’t seem him doing anything that looks like love yet.
I guess I have the same problems as most of the other people on the listserv. I have to make sure I set firm boundaries, otherwise I will let friends, coworkers, boyfriends, and bosses take advantage of me.
My dad gave me reasonable DNA and I absolutely love and adore my relatives on my Dad’s side. I am close with everyone else in my family. It’s only my Dad that I do not talk to.
I can say with absolute certainty that my Dad does NOT love me. Yet, being his daughter did have the advantage of being born with the best cousins (who also hate my Dad!)
Eventually I want to move to the point where running into him doesn’t make my blood boil. I want to come to a place where I accept that he has NPD and not be angry about it.
Natalie
Firstly, I just got sinus surgery yesterday to open up my sinuses. For the
first time, I think in my life, I can breath properly! I think my panic
attacks at
night might go way too. I would wake up every night screaming that I couldn’t
breath. I was linking it to my mother and mother in law’s early lung cancer
deaths, but I think this operation might give me the answer to my prayers.
I think that ironically, with my ability to breath, my ability to let go will
increase.
Nat K, my father too has NPD, although it was my therapist who guided me in
this direction so it is not official. But he has ALL THE CLASSIC SYMPTOMS.
When I first saw the list on the internet, I nearly fell over in my chair. I
had no idea that NPD existed. It is also ironic that they are all SO similar
and predictable. I empathize deeply with you. It is a
horrible realization that your childhood was based upon this foundation.
I think he loves me in a way that he can, but he will never see me as a
talented, wonderful woman that I am and that others perceive me to be.
Now, advice…This is hard to give, but I have been dealing with this
passionately for 1 year. Everyday, every second, I have been living
in realization that I have been kissing the wrong people’s asses my whole
life. My N brother out and out abused my spirit, sisterhood and humanness. And
he knows that he did, that is the sad part.
it is very, very painful because YOU DON’T WANT TO HURT ANYONE, especially
those with NPD by telling them that they are wrong. They both are Ivy
League educated, so I just thought they knew better than me so I always put
them on pedestals.Little did I know how little that matters and perhaps with
NPD you have the ability to shut the world out to only concentrate on yourself
and your academics. You almost realize they have “fragile egg shell minds”
(Jim Morrison). You feel as if you disagree and stick up for your self, that
you have DAGGERS in your hands and you are stabbing their wounds. Their self
protecton mechanisms are literally masterful.
I got to the point,after my whole family kept the $50,000 secret of the family
heirloom sale to pay for my brother’s materialistic fixes, at 39, that my
wounds were bleeding more than theirs were.I almost drove off the road that
day and it changed something in me metaphysically.
It was at a time (10 years after my mother’s death) that
the coast was clear for my long needed tantrum. I couldn’t keep up MY FASCADE
of feeling OK around my brother and my father any more.
Their behavior was becoming “UNNACCEPTABLE.” (My favorite word dubbed by the
Super Nanny).And as a mother and as a sister that I am, I was growing weary of
lying myself in the road for these fellows and getting run over every single
time. There comes a time when you have to realize THAT IT IS YOUR
RESPONSIBILITY to WAKE UP and make a stand. It is OUR fault. We were
preconditioned to behave this way, and it is deeply engrained in us to serve
these men all our days. And serve them to the point where THEY have limitless
power over your soul. But it is OUR responsibility to not endure it another
second.
I have two boys to raise, age 9 and 6, and I have a husband, WHO ABOSOLUTELY
does not treat me this way. The people at the supermarket don’t treat me this
way, in fact, quite the opposite. And because of this, I know that I AM NOT
THE CRAZY one. I DO STICK up for myself if he is a selfish bastard. We
have an egalitarian relationship. And if he ever pulls any shit on my, he
knows that my ass is out the door.
So my advice is turn your “inner light” on. In every situation that there is
a red flag, pardon yourself from the situation. Excuse yourself to the
bathroom. BE SELFISH BACK. Say that your stomach hurts, or that you have an
urgent matter you must attend to. I know this is very hard to do with
codependents like us, BUT IF THE PERSON DOESN’T LIKE you or fires you for
excusing yourself to go to the bathroom, SO BE IT. Removing yourself his the
healthiest thing to do for both of you.
Work on your armor. Don’t date for a while. Perhaps PSYCHOS can see TARGET
written all over your face. It is AMAZING when YOU MATTER MORE THAN THEY DO.
There are other means to get “love” in your life.
FIRST AND FOREMOST LOVE YOURSELF. NO ONE WILL LOVE YOU IF YOU DON’T LOVE YOUR
SELF. And there is a difference between TAKING CARE of yourself and
pathological narcissism. An ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE. I had to learn this
difference. People are calling
me high maintenance these days, but I realize that I had to make the change
between
being a PUSHOVER and being A RESPECTED MEMEBER of a community.
I hope this helps you. I am writing it to reaffirm my feelings about it.
It is a HARD LESSON TO LEARN, but when it CLICKS, your red flag moments will
subside. I have a suspicion that mine are gone for good. I may not have
a brother, but I don’t think I ever did. I may not have a father( although
I am trying because he is my father) but I don’t think I ever did. I will
never engage emotionally ever again, because the minute I show emotion, they
will twist my reality and that is UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR.
Take care of yourself FIRST and in EVERY situation. My favorite quote.
Your mind is like a garden:
Whatever you plant will grow.
Your thoughts are seeds you’re planting:
They produce, each after its kind.
And you, just like a gardener,
Can choose which seeds you’ll plant.
And by the choice of seeds you sow,
You choose the harvest you will reap.
So don’t plant seeds of lack or fear,
Disease, discord, or doubt.
Plant, instead, the seeds you want;
Then things you want will sprout. This gift of choice is given to all,
And not to just a few.
The harvest, friend, is in your hands:
The crop depends on you.
So take this power which you’ve been given,
And use it every day,
To gain from life the good you want,
For you have found the way.
Charles David Heineke, 1975
Spread the word. Please copy freely.>From: Nat K <npd-
cpt8754@lists.careplace.com>
Date: 2008/04/24 Thu AM 04:14:17 CDT
To: averilsb@verizon.net
Subject: Re: [npd] NPD and love
Thomas,
I think I responded to your message too abruptly. I am sorry.
I went into a long story about my NPD Dad and how I didn’t feel like he loved my brother and I.
So much of how I define love revolves around respect and loyalty. It is a limited definition and I realize is very different from how other people define love.
My brother actually thinks my Dad loves him even though he knows that my Dad has many problems. My Dad’s fourth wife that he is now divorced from told me after the divorce that they had loved each other. Since my Dad cheated on her and then left her, I didn’t see my Dad as loving her.
I do not that people with NPD have incredible problems with respect, cruelty, and kindness. Can they “love� I guess I don’t know because I operate with a specific, and probably very limited, idea of what love is.
Just to give you a context about myself. I believe in lust at first sight, but I don’t believe in love at first sight. When I hear about stories where people who know each other for just a short time elope in Vegas, I never think the marriage will last. A friend of mine thinks Bronte’s Wuthering Heights is romantic. I love the book. It’s beautifully written and twisted, not romantic.
After thinking about my post, I realized that I might have implied that people’s NPD partners do not love them and I just don’t know if that is true.
Even after reading so many books on NPD, I still am getting a handle on this disorder. I still think relationships with N are a bad idea. Can they love? Not according to my definition, but I other’s definitions vary so my answer would just be based on what I think love is.
Nat
perhaps nat they have their"own brand of love"that is secondary to the love for themselves?..i personally feel that they cannot love themselves and do not have love to give…when i have challenged my N father about this in the past…he says that he does love us…in what form i would love to know!!!..he sems to compensate by being generous materially…which is a poor substitute for the"real thing"granted…but perhaps it just makes him "feel good"about himself!!
i also believe that love=respect and loyalty…but how can Ns give respect when they dont/cant respect themselves…and as for loyalty…that is all towards them!
Interesting question Thomas! And I see we have some great replies to it.
Well, as far as I’m concerned ‘love’ is a very stable/stabilizing emotion whereas people with NPD are not very stable. Also, I’d like to add that to feel and understand love people need to be on the same level, mostly. I do not think people with NPD can love anyone. They can ‘pretend’ to love people and that does not last long. Only lasts till the first criticism of them and then they just block you out emotionally.
If we love someone that person will become ‘indispensable’ to us but for N’s everyone is very much ‘dispensable’.
nice on fancynancy…we also want to be indispensable…not mere objects"like something they own…like a flashy car…or someting inanimate with no feelings!..that is interchangeable with other objects of desire!!!
These people may have rich inner worlds…but as regards love…they are starved…and starve us dont you think…all take with no reward for investment made perhaps?
Thank you spiralupwards. I think you are right.
I don’t think my ex was capable of experiencing love. She perceived what she experienced as love and thought it was what everyone else was doing, but it wasn’t love as people like us might define it. I think that people were more like objects and possessions to her and without recognizing them as individuals or as something other than a part of herself love isn’t possible. She seemed to be on a quest to find love and be loved but she wasn’t capable of expressing it or feeling it beyond reciting the words, “I love you.” It was always sad because the words were always quite empty.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say she couldn’t ever repair the damage but with all the defenses working against it I don’t think her mind will let her develop and understand what love is. I think love is a lot of things, but most importantly you have to care and sometimes put other peoples feelings above your own and compromise. With NPD you’re prevented from doing just that.
Then again, something kept her desperately attached to me for several years. She chose me but I don’t think love had anything to do with it at all. I was just somebody who was committed, patient, and forgiving… and available. I was just what she needed, but I don’t think love was a factor. As it was ending I told her that I didn’t love her in that way anymore and it simply wasn’t a factor in her equation. She didn’t care as long as I was around as I had always been.
Not having your feelings reciprocated is bad enough, but worse when you are led to believe they are.
.bit lost for words here…perhaps like children the"old sense of entitlement"kicks in…maturity brings true love…and wastedyouth…simply…you must have the patience of a saint!
I strongly believe that love should be conditional.,except towards a child.(.which Ns are strangely or seem so)…giving.unconditional love…makes someone open to abuse perhaps?which is rather sad for all concerned
spiral
Yes, it does open you up to abuse and the chance of getting walked all over. Its a fine and very hard line to walk. Firm boundaries need to be set no matter what the situation.
Maybe I don’t give myself enough credit for some of my patience but it wasn’t something that came naturally. It was always very hard. A healthy relationship involves reciprocation and should have similar things returned for your investment. That wasn’t the case for what I went through.
‘Reciprocation’ exactly! That is one thing N’s never do. WastedYouth you talked about setting firm boundaries. I found that next to impossible with my N.
The ‘lip service’ was there on setting boundaries but there was never any action taken, you know. The thing is that they keep you so on the edge all the time and manipulate things in such a way that it ALWAYS is about them. I even doing normal everyday things with/around them is so difficult! For example, if he is home and I wanted to take a shower, it would just become an ‘issue’ because he wants to do this and he wants to do that and how very insensitive of me to waste his precious time by taking a shower!
I would have hundreds of these mouth agape moments in a single day. Total shock and awe! Just could never understand why these things were ‘issues’ you know. I’m glad I do understand now 
Setting boundaries was tough and they were constantly challenged. When they were respected it was done resentfully. I do believe my ex was fully aware of which boundaries I was entirely firm on, and aware of the things I’d fold on and let slide. She knew exactly what she could get away with, and what she couldn’t.
its like dealing with overgrown children isnt it…!
Or rather spoiled teenagers!
boundary setting does cause a lot of conflict…it seems to be"their way or no way"as they say…but theor boundaries are "open"one rule for them…one for us…very unbalanced…its bloody hard work with VERY little or no reward isnt it?..we cant change people…unless they want to change.
You can actually see the’spark"in their eyes when they are opposed…sadly,they seem to like sparking off…setting your boundaries can end up a minefield!
Sometimes I don't view as like working with a child, because it is dealing with a child. My ex was very smart when it came to certain things but overall she was almost stuck at some moment in time from her earlier years. There is little reward and I wish I had more support in my life at the time so it would have been less traumatic.
traumatic is an understatememt.!!..perhaps you were a father figure to her?i truly believe that my ex was looking for someone like mother…i didnt fit the bill…so i was histiry!
Yah, a “father figure” is a very appropriate term. Once into the relationship, I always felt more like a parent than a boyfriend. Thats definately NOT what I was looking for in a relationship. I think this girl kept me around a lot of time to be able to reflect herself off me and judge how the rest of the world might react. I may have been a bit of a guinea pig, too.
ooh hell…guinea pig…USED springs to mind…used abused and tossed aside…realy good for the old sense of self worth,isnt it!..we please others…and they just please themselves…no balance…between give take…a lot of investment/no reward.