Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)

Depression
#1

News Update:

in the July 25 Los Angeles Times there appeared an obituary for a man named Albert Ellis. He is recognized as the “founder” of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He was a psychiatrist and a psychoanalyist. He published his first book in 1957. It propounded ideas which would become the basis for what he called “relative emotive behavioral therapy,” also known as CBT.

The author of the obituary writes: “he wanted people to view their problems rationally and separate their sense of identity or self-fulfillment from the source of their unhappiness.”

Ellis said the following in an interview on NPR in 2004: when something bad happens “you can easily upset yourself, but you also have a choice to feel sorry, regretful, frustrated, annoyed and not depressed, anxious and despairing.”

A quote from a colleague: “He said you can’t get stuck in the mud of your past.”

all this sounded familiar to me, what about you?

peace,
c.

#2

I just re-read and re-laughed as hard as I did the first time. What a funny lively crew we are. Lot’so Fun

#3

I went through that many years ago for panic disorder associated with depression and it supposedly works for people who are good at structured behavior. You “simply”, and I say this in JEST, have to change the way you think. It is not an easy thing for any of us to do. For example, if your abusive partner is calling you a “slut” for example, just imagine that he is calling you a “chair” and each and every time he calls you that, you are to automatically think “chair” every time so that it does not bother you. You listen to many relaxation tapes and they do help you to relax. As for changing my way of thinking, they didn’t work, but they may for others, I don’t know and I am not going to down it if it does work for others.

#4

It’s not easy to change the way we think, or the way depression changes our thoughts, for sure. That is a daily battle.

However, if CBT really is based on the thought that if someone calls me a “slut”, then I think “chair”, sure I’m thinking chair and exactly where I’m going to put said chair ON that “nice” person who called me a slut.

Shouldn’t CBT help to make you think “This person is wrong AND abusive and I’m getting away from this severely damaged person” instead of “he/she must be right, I AM a slut” (which in most depressed people would be the next chain of thought)?

But this whole chair thing… I’ve NOT been involved with CBT in real-life, just a little bit online, so I don’t know what all it entails… I have heard it works wonders for those who can apply it to their lives.

Whatever gives the best benefit to whomever is actively seeking help :slight_smile:

#5

C-Tui
Yes, I can relate to your “stuck in the mud of the past” concept~ i heard it expressed
" If you’re up to your ass in alligators,
it doesn’t do any good to wonder why
just get out" ~somebody smart

CBT isn’t so much Slut = chair
but perhaps Slut = i wonder why she’s so angry today?
It’s not internalizing others judgments,
I speak thus not from success with this (grinning ear to ear)
but from a short stint with CBT and reading

I am so sensitive to others judgments that I can lose who I am in the waves of judgment that filter in each day, poor me, I get very judgmental about others judgments (credit to AARON for the wake up call) so I am trying to step back and let others have their crazy, foolish, heart hurting , stupid, lint licking opinions without judging them ~ see how I’ve begun to grow ~ giggle

I have also heard of CBT as re-framing.
concept ~ you don’t like what picture you see so you reframe it
Same thing as CBT
She called me a slut = I am a beautiful moral woman whose life is abundant with understanding and forgiveness.

and as always I could be standing in left field at a football game in a hula skirt
so go figure…

#6

I originally posted the article because i had NEVER heard of Ellis. In school i learned a little about Freud, Carl Rogers, and B.F. Skinner, but nothing about Albert Ellis. And absolutely nothing about CBT. Of this course this was in the the dark-ages of late 60’ to 70’s, and i don’t think Ellis’ theories were widely accepted back then.

I’m certainly NOT an expert on CBT – see, i CAN admit when i don’t know something. i only know what i’ve done with my therapist and from a tiny bit of reading, mostly on mood disorder forums and sites.

IMO, i don’t perceive it as learning to think “chair” instead of “slut.” to me it’s part of “retraining” your brain to not simply react to the word “slut” and just accept it, and internalize it, allow it to eat you up forever.

So i guess i sort of go along with River and time on this one. No offense kiki, because i know you’re the LSW here, not me.

For me, the COGNITIVE part entails learning to manage your own BEHAVIOR, because that’s the only thing you have control over. And part of that management is learning to THINK before you go into an immediate emotional tizzy over something. Or, being able to “stop” the emotional tizzy after it takes hold, and looking at it rationally: just because he calls me a slut doesn’t mean i am one. And not turning the negative thoughts into a whole list of all of your “supposed” defects.

For me, it’s more about not getting caught up in my own “inner” negative thoughts that just keep cycling through my head: “gee, i screwed that up. Yeah, well, I can screw anything up. That’s why my life is such a total mess, because i’ve screwed up everything along the line.” that’s how it goes, around and around and around. This doesn’t have so much to do with what other people say to me, but about what “I say to myself.”

there’s an entry in my The Path to Recovery" journal that explains some the “Cognitive Distortions” that we “mood disordered” folks often fall into. it’s from a website called BipolarWorld. It’s the basis for almost all the internal work i try to do in re-learning how to manage my thoughts and emotions.

and, trust me, i’m a helluva long way from getting any of this under real control.

so, that’s my story and i may stick to it, until i learn more.

Anyone who thinks Aaron will have some input on this, raise your hand. Lets see, that’s 1, 2, 3, 4. . .

peace, and let’s keep thinking, it’s good for us.

c.

#7

Hey See, can I be mood reordered and reorganized (instead of mood disordered?) because my OCD takes precedence over my depression et. al. at times :wink: hee hee hee

P.S. - River can I use “lint licking” in my daily conversations? I will credit you, I promise!

#8

Hey See (Still) - lookie what I found... I almost said "Hey See look what I saw"... but it wouldn't have been anything more than my mind slipping a cog...

http://www.answers.com/topic/cognitive-therapy?cat=health

Cognitive Therapy (CT) is a type of psychotherapy developed by psychiatrist Aaron T. Beck in the 1960s. Becoming disillusioned with long-term psychodynamic approaches based on gaining insight into unconscious emotions and drives, Beck came to the conclusion that the way in which his clients perceived and interpreted and attributed meaning—a process known scientifically as cognition—in their daily lives was a key to therapy.[1] Albert Ellis was working on similar ideas from a different perspective, in developing his rational emotive behaviour therapy (REBT). Beck initially focused on depression and developed a list of "errors" in thinking that he proposed could cause or maintain depression, including arbitrary inference, selective abstraction, over-generalization, and magnification (of negatives) and minimization (of positives). Cognitive therapy seeks to identify and change "distorted" or "unrealistic" ways of thinking, and therefore to influence emotion and behaviour.

Beck outlined his approach in Depression: Causes and Treatment in 1967. He later expanded his focus to include anxiety disorders, in Cognitive Therapy and the Emotional Disorders in 1976, and other disorders and problems.[2] He also introduced a focus on the underlying "schema"—the fundamental underlying ways in which people process information—whether about the self, the world or the future. Treatment is based on collaboration between client and therapist and on testing beliefs.

The new cognitive approach came into conflict with the behaviourism ascendant at the time, which denied that talk of mental causes was scientific or meaningful, rather than simply assessing stimuli and behavioural responses. However, the 1970s saw a general "cognitive revolution" in psychology. Behavioural modification techniques and cognitive therapy techniques became joined together, giving rise to cognitive behavioural therapy. The term is sometimes used interchangeably with cognitive therapy, since cognitive therapy has always included some behavioural components, but advocates of Beck's particular approach seek to maintain and establish its integrity as a distinct clearly-standardized kind of cognitive behavioural therapy.[3]

#9

Gee Whiz kids, I didn’t see chair or slut in that definition at all…what’s that about?
(wizeA__ cackle)
I fell off my chair when I read C-still so I was thinking Cecile…She’ll never live it down C-tui = Cecile HaHaHahHahhahaHHahahhahhahaaaaHhhhahhAhaha wheeze
waz this the scenic route for think before you speak???
and cecile thank you for this stimulating thread it’s truly made me laugh so harty.
I almost peed but I did that last week.
I remember BECK not Ellis and I’m in educ
THE VOICES ARE LIARS
THE VOICES ARE LIARS
THE VOICES ARE LIARS
Spray paint it on the wall if ya have to
THE VOICES ARE LIARS
Those old tapes have to be erased or recorded over ~being recorder over is the easier of the two, I think, with supportive friends who give good real feedback and chanllenges to be real with ourselves, these new tapes will some day echo
the love you never got to hear, the praise you never felt, the time you didn’t share, the painful words of others, will be replaced with only reminders that you are enough, you are valuable, you are strong, you are capable, you are smart, you are worthy, you are powerful, you are somebody wonderful and special and unique and there is but one of you a miracle of life, rare and unforgettable.

and I hope Arron replies, he’s a wonderful spirit I love him. He adds demension to my life and a view I treasure.

#10

"the love you never got to hear, the praise you never felt, the time you didn't share, the painful words of others, will be replaced with only reminders that you are enough, you are valuable, you are strong, you are capable, you are smart, you are worthy, you are powerful, you are somebody wonderful and special and unique and there is but one of you a miracle of life, rare and unforgettable. "

River... I LOVE THIS! Thank you... you spoke directly from my heart... now I'll kindly thank you to move to the left a little, you're standing on a valve ;)

(P.S. - you said WHIZ!)

#11

i asked my therapist about this in my Friday session, she said "of course . . . " and started telling me all about Ellis, but she never mentioned Beck. Hmmm, isn’t this all so interesting?

now, now people, let’s not have anyone getting their knickers in a twist – it’s just a friendly exchange of ideas. which appears to be turning wackier by the moment.

thanks Spirit, i LOVE the peanut butter analogy! what a perfect picture of two “dueling” therapists. Remember “Dueling Banjos” from Deliverance?

i thank you all for your participation. If you enjoyed this presentation please remember to place a “donation” in the box by the door.

So now that it’s after midnight, i’m finally in a good mood. What a waste. Now that i think about some of my writing from tonight, i may be running just a little bit “hot” – maybe i need to turn off the turbocharger.

“So I’m a slut…and your point is?” - - knock me out, you all! way too many good quotes from one thread!

peace to all,
c.

I edited this today (8/4) to remove some typos and other screw-ups. c.

#12

I BELIEVE THAT I DID SAY, “TO CHANGE YOUR WAY OF THINKING” (for those who have selective reading). Aaron Beck had a book in the seventies that I read called, “The New Mood Therapy” and I didn’t think much of it then and don’t now but that’s only my opinion. Has he had any books since then? The slut and chair thing was just and example, like I said, for the lint pickers. By the by, I never heard of Ellis, either.

#13

“So I’m a slut…and your point is?”  Or “At least, I’m sexually competent!”  Sorry, I just couldn't resist!

 

Team2River, I love your positive self-assessment statements.  I think it can be helpful to say the words slowly and deliberately, while having a hand on your heart.  Then it becomes something of a "pledge of allegiance" to self.  In addition, the resonance of your heart will help you feel the reality in the words.  Relatively few moments spent in this mode can wipe out vast amounts of negative conditioning.

 

I think I must be in a very strange mood tonight.  This whole labeled therapy thing is reminding me of a couple of commercials, and a couple of movies.  In a beer commercial, there is one guy arguing "Great taste!”  The other shouts “Less filling!”  A vision comes to mind of two therapists arguing, one for cognitive, and one for behavioral therapy, repeating some similarly innocuous quotes.  I also think of the Reese’s peanut butter cup commercials, where two individuals collide and accidentally mix the peanut butter and chocolate, then decide it was a fortuitous mistake.  I can imagine that a similar mental process took place when the experts decided to merge cognitive and behavioral therapy.  I can almost hear it said, "You got cognitive stuff all over my behavioral therapy!"  Like I said, I'm in a strange mood tonight ;) If anybody remembers the movie, "Being There,” the main character, Peter Sellers is a displaced gardener with fairly low mental functioning, whose simplistic comments are viewed as profound and insightful by members of Washington's political hierarchy.  I really don't mean to be derogatory toward early mental health pioneers, but I really think they could have come to accept the same conclusions, simply by talking to any mom who has raised children, or even by asking the children themselves.

 

I just realized this evening, that in a way, I feel the same way about labeled modalities of psychotherapy as I do about religion.  I do not wish to claim a preference for any particular one to the exclusion of the others.  Perhaps I should come up with a name for my own modality of treatment.  On second thought, this mind stuff is complicated enough without adding more terminology to it. 

 I wish everyone a blessed weekend!  Many hugs, Aaron
#14

I agree - I find this to be an excellent thread with interesting points of view and fun to be had by all, while also taking away educational experience regarding CBT!

I don’t have this much FUN in therapy I pay for, that’s for sure :wink:

#15

Kudo,s to all. I,m surrounded by intelligent companions who have much to offer . I loved reading all the wit in your entries . This was an amazing thread on a subject that interested me. Here,s a book to check out if you,d like to learn more about how this “self help therapy” is used today.

Cognitive Therapy

My psychiatrist gives classes on Cognative Therapy using David Burns Book ,Feeling Good/ Mood Therapy.I haven,t taken these classes , but I,ve read the book. It’s an approach to improve mental health and to manage depression. Over the years we form reactions to situations that can cause ourselves unhappiness. This book offers ways to change automatic responses. I’ve used this book with patchy results. If you are interested in reading an exerpt before you buy, first (search) Feeling Good by David Burns. That will bring you to Amazon . You can look to the left of the page and choose an exerpt to read. You can also read who the prominent leaders of psychiatry were that “originated” this therapy… Its a “workbook” also. you can use it to practice its theories. Only you can change your thinking. No book will do it. You can work at its principals. There is no cure for chemical imbalances. The book is about feeling good. I have suffered from depression since puberty.The books intention is to help you to feel good and is useful if you remember to apply its principals.
(June entry in my journal) Today:
The way I think is sometimes filtered through a state of depression. Occasionally my emotional reactions to situations can be habitual responses to “old junk”. Sometimes not ! Sometimes my reactions are accurate, valid and in the moment .
I,ve discovered I have a million triggers and a mind filled with panic buttons as C-saw,s avatar suggests. I can relate to that and know it helps to"think things through" instead of instantly reacting. Because if I act in a way that that’s harmful to myself or others I feel shame. And that isn,t good…
Self condemnation is unhealthy. I have to learn be gentle with myself every day.Yesterday a receptionist at my doctors told me her closest sister died. I stood with my arms around her and wept with her. I can empathise, I can be kind, I can love, and I have a generous heart. I can be hell on wheels also and that bothers me to no end. Exceptance of my mental disorder is my biggest challenge. Its why all of you here are so valuble to my wellness. Thank you all for your love and friendship. Warm Hugs, Gramms

#16

Da 'Twit here, thought everything was “tongue in cheek” some factoids and facts loaded with our creativity to laugh about our own foibles in a less serious way.

I can’t stay serious all the time. I am far more likely to respond to positive things, things that pull my heart strings , things that connect me with another. so forgive if I offended. twas never my intent. (a gracious bow from the waist)

I loved you “give” Arron, just so ya know .
grin~
enjoy life friends

#17

Hey, who’s offended? Is someone offended? NOT ME! Let’s just agree to disagree :slight_smile: Besides, if we are offended, we don’t have to post to this thread anymore if we don’t want, right? No offense taken :slight_smile:

#18

My favorite line since I,m a member of the bawdy seniors club was " so I,m a slut" , your point is ? etc. LOL my second favorite line, Cognitive therapy colliding with
Behavioral therapy . And then the peanut butter and chocolate story I fell flat laughing .
Thank you ! , spirit, your entries were a-1 !
And this, PURE CREAM…A+ river buds
"the love you never got to hear, the praise you never felt, the time you didn’t share, the painful words of others, will be replaced with only reminders that you are enough, you are valuable, you are strong, you are capable, you are smart, you are worthy, you are powerful, you are somebody wonderful and special and unique and there is but one of you a miracle of life, rare and unforgettable"

The rest of you have a talent for making me giggle likea young girl. Many Hugs !

#19

Hey Aaron: Whatever very strange mood you were in, I loved you that way. Could you be in that mood more often? It was highly enjoyable. Karen

#20

Gramms, your no-nonsense way of putting things is so real and so genuine, I just find you so interesting. You are a gem.