Curious to get your opinion on this article

http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57

It is widely accepted in the psychological community that a person suffering from NPD does have a conscience and the ability to express genuine remorse and regret. This is one of the significant obvious differences between NPD and what professionals classify as Antisocial-Psychopath. If we allow ourselves to look beyond the book and examine other behavior Mr. Vaknin has displayed in his work the concern regarding the accuracy of his self-diagnosis becomes dramatically magnified.

Sam lives a nomad lifestyle which he describes in the interview with Bob Goodman. Mr. Goodman asks, “I understand you’re something of a nomad now, hopping from country to country and job to job. Do you ever long for a more settled existence?” Sam replies, "Never. You are describing a morgue, a cemetery. My life is colorful, adventurous, impossible, cinematic. Sure, I pay a price – who doesn’t? Is there no price to be for a sedentary, predictable, numbing existence? When one is 90 years old, all that is left is memories. You are the director of the movie of your life, a 70 years-long movie. Now, sit back and begin to watch: is it a boring film? Would you have watched it had it not been yours? If the answers are negative and positive, respectively, you succeeded to live well, regardless of the price you paid."
Mr. Vaknin’s nomad lifestyle is reflected in his ownership of several different support forums for “victims of narcissists”. After studying the archives on a variety of forums it seems that when Nr. Vaknin becomes bored with a group or if he feels they are threatening him by moving in a direction he is not comfortable than he ceases participation, sometimes starting a new group on another list. Many people have brought forward questions and concerns to me about the behavior on these support forums.

One of the major concerns is centered around Sam deleting posts on his support forums for no reason other than the author challenged his theories toward narcissism, often by suggesting that a person suffering from NPD can recover. It is clear that messages are deleted and people are banned based on the childish needs of Sam Vaknin. I regard these alleged support forums to be some of the unhealthiest such communities I have ever encountered, online or in the Real World. People are encouraged to worship Sam and his theories regarding Narcissism and are actively discouraged from critical thinking. Other concerns have been raised about the intent and behavior around these support forums but it would require a separate case study to examine everything which has taken place in the name of support from Narcissistic abuse.

What are some of the other motives which could lead Mr. Vaknin to engage in what I now firmly believe amounts to what is known as narcissistic acting out? Once again Sam offers insight to this question in an email exchange with Bob Goodman falling their interview. Sam was concerned about the status of the copyright of the article and wrote, “Regarding the copyright: I retain the copyright on everything I write - including responses to an interview. I hate Americans in general and their pusillanimous litigious minds in particular (as does most of the world) – so, do me a favor: take it or leave it and don’t waste my time with this any longer. Thank you, Sam”. It is a widely accepted fact that most of the study around NPD has centered around behavior here in the United States. Could it be that Sam saw an opportunity to lash out at Americans as a class of people, perhaps thinking that he is so smart that they will accept him as an authority. It is interesting that he likes America well enough to buy a degree from one of our diploma mills, and obtain a counseling certificate from one of our online schools, thereby obtaining credentials without doing the work required of others. I guess America has its better side, isn’t that right Mr. Vaknin?

In the interview with Bob Goodman the author makes it clear exactly how he feels about his own intelligence and authority on narcissism. Goodman asks, “I’m still curious, though, what your attitude is toward your “customers.” It’s clear you appreciate the attention from them, but do you consider them foolish for seeking advice from a narcissist such as yourself?” Mr. Vaknin replies, “I am by far the most intelligent person I know, so, the deep-seated belief that others are bumbling, ineffectual fools is a constant feature of my mental landscape. But seeking advice from a narcissist about narcissism doesn’t sound foolish to me – if the consumer applies judgement and his or her knowledge of narcissism and its distortions to the advice received.” I found this answer to be amusing as it a classic example of a person suffering from a severe personality disorder to greatly exaggerate their own intelligence and importance. It is even more interesting would viewed from the perspective that this work in my opinion confirms that the author has little or no understanding of narcissism and the various other psychological disorders which are related to the topics which he addresses.

Mr. Vaknin’s reaction to the request for scientific information was largely predictable from someone suffering from an extreme personality disorder, and has made no progress or effort at healing. By his own admission Mr. Vaknin has a need for constant attention and adulation, it is becoming clear this may be equaled only by a fear of exposure of himself. Mr. Vaknin’s response to being exposed is a rage which covers a fear and anxiety about losing his special status. His response is a predictable primitive lashing out at those who are threatening not to only to expose his behavior, but his old wounds as well. There is much to be learned here in terms of asking critical questions and wondering why someone who has never addressed his own issues is trying to help others address painful issues in their lives.
It should be noted that malignant naricissim is well documented in professional psychological terms, and is commonly referred to as a sadistic psychopath rather than Narcissistic Personality Disorder. More information on this is available at Dr. Ramsland article on Psychopaths. As has been noted earlier in this essay Mr. Vaknin has incorrectly classified all levels of what he calls “Narcissisim” into one classification. An article addressing the continuum of narcissism can be found at Degrees of Narcissism. There is also a very interesting professional article by a psychologist in Australia who believes there are at least four different types of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and nine heads of narcissism. This article can be seen at Different degrees of NPD. I am amused that one of Mr. Vaknin’s devout supporters pointed out that in her words, “Sam loves this site and has put it on his Narcissistic Abuse list many times.” Interesting that he would put out material which goes against his basic point of view that all narcissists are the same. In my mind this reflects an inability to discern material and determine if they support your work.

I believe that those people who engage in critical thinking and ask the tough questions and demand answers from Sam Vaknin and all others, including myself, should be able to come to a clear understanding of what is NPD and what is invovled in healing. We do not need a guru of healing and I have no interest in serving in such a role. Mr. Vaknin has built his reputation as someone with an incurable disorder who has no access to his true self. His situation has been so helpless that he has not even made any noticeable effort at professional help. There is a certain irony, almost to the point of being comical, in watching Mr. Vaknin’s efforts to be a leader in healing this disorder. Amazing how he had no such interest until he was faced with exposure.

Many (most) people who are serious about information regarding healing are at a level well beyond where they turn to Sam Vaknin for guidance. Now that we understand that Sam is not talking about NPD and that he has no credentials or confirmed scientific research we need to let go of old patterns of thinking that have been established over the last several years. Together we can make our way along the long and often times painful journey toward healing. It is unfortunate that gross misrepresentation of professional credentials, unscientific material presented as scientific and other misinformation and games have been conducted in the name of understanding, and healing a disorder as serious as NPD. We can only hope that we now stand at the beginnig of a new era of working to truly understand and heal. IF your interested in such a journey we welcome you and look forward to what you have to share

Yes it is unfortunate that this is often the case when dealing with the police. The first few times that I called them my estimation was that instead of one intimidating thug in my house, I then had three! There are truly some awful people out there. I sympathise with your story Ella, I hope that you found your boyfriend and he was OK? I am sorry to hear that you were treated that way.

Psychological abuse and intimidation are against the law - not just physical violence, and so it is extremely important that you know how to approach community services and the police and to keep trying until you find the right person - because unfortunatley not all of them work at upholding the law and not all of them understand the severity and complexity of this issue. Some of them as mcgc has accurately pointed out abuse their postion of authority, and some are NPD sufferers themself.

Finding the first right person can take the longest - but then they can help you find more until you have a network. Tell them you are building a support network so they will know that you are not expecting them to take the whole burden! If you are in a small town and there is only one police station - this right person to start with may be a doctor or clergyman and not the police. These other people may be better at helping you deal with the police or offer an introduction and get them to understand your needs and their urgency. Do not wait until you need the police to call them. You need to put this support network together with research and intention, and you need to be very clear in yourself that you have the right to ask for their help. The good people in a community know each other, count on it!

I think also that you will find it helpful to not talk about narcissism, but just talk about the abuse. As soon as you start to label people it can be seen as a sign that you have a disorder yourself and professionals get wary about getting involved. Say that he is sarcastic and insulting. Say that he is intimidating. say that he is two faced. Say that you feel scared of him. Say that he is irresponsible with money and commitments. Say that you do not know how to deal with it and that you do not like how angry he can make you. Say that you need people in the community to know what is happenning because you don’t know how to deal with this on your own and that you need support. Don’t talk about him, talk about the abuse. That is what is important. That is what you need help with and protection from.

I know that not all people with NPD are physically abusive, but it is a significant indicator. The physical abuse is not always perpetrated by the person with NPD either. It is normal to become very angry with someone who mentally tortures you. It is normal to even want to kill them or wish them dead. I did with Steve for many years. It is also normal if you get an apprehended violence order, or similar, for some people to blame you. I was angry as hell at him and I didn’t always handle that well. Steve talks about this in his blog and how easy it was to get people on his side. This is why knowing how to get the system to support you is so important. Having the law on your side, and a strong network of support people including social and family support workers and the police, clegy and doctors etc. can shift the power balance in your favour - this is vital if things are going to improve.

It is also vital that you learn to take action and wake up your instincts. If the police or D.V. officer that you are talking to is uneducated on the issues and is not going to help you, thank them politely and go, don’t expect that you can insist. It wont work. Someone with authority will convince these people better if you come to need them later. Knowing the name of senior constables who knew my case and were supportive of me helped dramatically later when I called the less senior police on the beat. You need to learn how to approach this. That might not seem fair, but it is actually part of you getting better!

There are people out there that do understand and will listen, men as well as women. You need to give yourself the time, permission and knowledge of how to best approach and find them. Things can get better, but they wont on their own. You need protection, emotionally, physically and I would also say spiritually. You need to learn how to call on it. How to feel worthy of it and how to build healthy attachments with people who are supportive and caring and how to disengage from those who are not. You need to learn how to deal with this calmly and not wait till it reaches crises point to involve others, you need to learn how to handle these problems and feel proud of yourself for doing it well and staying someone respectful and believable and likable in the process. You need to learn not to let his or anyone elses bad behaviour justify your own faults and weaknesses. You need to work on those weaknesses and get stronger, you need to turn to people who do care and can help you and to turn away from those who don’t. This will bring healing for you. It is what you need to learn.

In my journey I also made friends with a group of people who host Viking reinactments and are very principled and family oriented. This helped too. Having male friends who wear chainmail and fight with swords for fun, and who are to this day highly supportive of my me and my childrens development and opportunities in life (my business mentor has come from this group) shifted the power balance too! Steve is part of this group also and this is why he cooked all that beautiful looking food that I show pictures of in my last two blog entries. I might post some other pictures soon of the guys in their armour. These were not men that Steve wanted finding out that he was a liar, flirt and abuser!

I may not be visiting careplace for awhile and my adword campaign has finished it’s trial for now. I am presently busy working towards a consulting role with community services and the police in trialing a new early intervention D.V. response unit. I am in a lot of meetings these days with influential people who want to help make this happen and it is taking a lot of my time. Pray that we succeed!

My guide will stay for sale at http://www.narcissismcured.com/ and our blog is at http://www.narcissismsupport.com/ -

If you forget the address just search for either of these sites in Google without the space between the words in other words narcissismcured and narcissismsupport - You will also see a growing list of reviews for my guide from many psychologists and professionals in this field. If you have bought the guide and want an updated version (I update it frequently after recieving expert recommendations) I will post an email address on our blog site later today and you can email us and we will send it to you free of charge. I cannot answer personal questions at this address but I will try to if you post them on the blog where others will benfit from them too. I also hope to get a regular newsletter happenning soon and the blog available by email so do come visit now and then and see what we are up to. It is not a site for argueing about these issues though. It is a support site for those who have decided that they want to take the journey that we are recommending.

Sam posts so many links here all the time because it keeps his pages at the top of Google and the search engines not because he actually cares! I would never stoop to link spamming support blogs to get my message out. This is considered the lowest of low by those in ecommerce and Google has been alerted to it and Sam will find his sites unlisted from Google if he keeps it up. If you like my ideas or want to promote a fair representation of information on the options available for partners of abusers please pass the links to my site on. It is what gets things listed. There will be articles by me and others coming out in a month or two in the press as well so keep an eye out. This won’t stay sam’s exclusive turf forever, I am not alone.

Stand up for yourself and your right to live peacefully in your own home. Stand up with strength and courage and without violence. I wish you all love and I will drop in now and then when I get the chance.

Kim Cooper.

Yes, you are quite right Mary, magic wont help a victim of abuse. That is why police intervention, BEFORE a woman has given up on her relationship - and knowing how to get the best support possible from the police - is so important. Things wont get better on their own - women must find the courage to take every step available to protect themselves.

Kim

hopetoday,

Are you aware there are many other books on Narcissism, Are you going to dispute them all, one by one or it is just Sam you have the problem with? He has the best book for describing the behavior and thinking of an N, a little cold talking about the victims, but he's an N, thats way he sees it.Take his information or leave it, we are here to share stories, support each other, try to recover and move on.

 I would like to help you save your N but nothing I did worked, only kimco was clever enough to figure that out. You don't have to convince her, she is on your side and ready to help and support you. What is it you want everyone to do, what do you want this board to be? What is the point of all of this, I have formed my own opinion from all the books I read and my life with an N, who could not be fixed. You do not have to listen to Sam, It is ok if you want to help, cure or fix yours, it really is. mamolie

I dont know why you keep hating.Sam isnt someone we all worship but he is someone who is telling you the truth.In time you will see what many of us have been trying to tell you.You have a strong voice and for that I’m glad because your’e ganna need it —Peace,Mary

Mamolie has been married to an N for 41 years? right? I was with mine for 3 1/2 and Maryb is it 9 or 10 yrs? Sorry I don’t remember exactly. I guess what I’m trying to say is at one time there was so much hope. Hope for change, hope for the future, try and try again. Forgive and forgive some more. Ignore this, forget that, lots of looking the other way. Tie yourself in knots trying to please, cry, laugh, scream and stare into space wondering why. And still nothing changed. In the end there’s emotional exhaustion and an I give up attitude. We don’t want to watch helplessly as you make mistakes that could damage you emotionally. Yes we’ve had different experiences and I hope yours turns out differently nobody wants you to suffer more than you already have. That’s why the debate on this issue is so hot. I think deep down you know that.

As for that article you posted, quite enlightening and at the same time we could have guessed that already :wink: Sam is sam and the book is an excellent reference. Lets not expect more from him than he’s able to give.

Hi,

I hear what you ladies are saying, it is a very nasty to find oneself in a relationship hole such as the ones that you have described, I can truly sympathise, I lived there for a long time too.

But please can you consider this?

Hope has been with 3 people with NPD now and I think that she is looking for answers that will heal herself (not just her partner) as much as anyone here. This is an issue of relationships and just leaving him and having no contact is just as unrealiatic a solution as expecting that loving him lots and pleasing him is going to ‘fix him’. As a lot of women here have experienced, it often just happens to them all over again when they walk into another bad relationship, and when there are children involved this can create a literal minefield of dangers with step parents making things more confusing with no gaurantee of improved quality of parental and family relationships. Hope doesn’t have kids yet but she would probably like to and so she wants to solve this first and that is great.

This was part of my partner facing facts (I had to first). He had been badly abused by a step father and as much as he said he didn’t care about the kids, he did and he didn’t want to risk that situation with them. He also had no faith in finding a “better woman” as back then he thought that all women were sluts and bitches, this made him very angry and depressed… To his delight I proved him wrong (-:

I have been with him for 14 years and the last two have been good for about 90% of the time. I think that is good for any marriage! The idea that all professionals say that NPD cannot get better is really the issue here. It is quite simply not true. Off line I have only met one professional who said that and he admitted he had been prejudiced by his complete loathing of them after working in the jail system for many years. He was working with very hardened men whatever their issues. On the other hand Gordon Neufeld Ph.d. developmental and clinical psychologist talks about working with very hardened cases like these and having to teach these young men to wash their faces in cold water for up to half an hour after their sessions with him so that others in the jail could not see that they had been crying. The hardest hearts CAN still be taught to feel, but only when someone takes steps and time to develop TRUST and a healthy attachement.

I am not saying this is easy, I am not saying that it happens often (but I think it could with better understanding) and I am not saying that it is advisable for everyone to try and take this course. But the points I suggest will help a woman whether she thinks he can get better or not. In the case of domestic violence being involved I would say yes every victim should take most of the steps I did and more…

I did not come to this on my own without a lot of personal growth and a lot of professional help.

What is different about my story is that it focuses on action that can be taken - within a marriage - which will protect the woman and children (NPD is a major indicator for domestic violence), rectify the power imbalance and leave a woman in a better position to leave or get him to if it becomes neccessary, while still giving things the best chance they can at getting better. This is not about scaring him that he will be abandoned so he will change. That will backfire everytime. This is about a woman making big and permanent changes in how she approaches life and how she protects her self, her reputation and her home environment. If he doesn’t get better he will probably split and probably for good, but then she has still healed… she is no longer attracting or playing the victim role that the NPD sufferer needs her to if he is to continue with his unwelcomed behaviour.

If you have an partner with NPD I bet there is other people in your home regularly that disrepect you too! This takes more to sort out than no contact!

I know that there are people here who disagree with me. But calling me names, slandering me and insisting that my motives are criminal, or pretending that professional diagnoses or judgements can be made on line is in contravenence of the rules here. The link spamming that has been going on is a breach of Googles rules of conduct as well. I hope that those who seem unable to keep themselves from abusing me might find some self control as I know that there are people who are interested in my opinion. I also claim the right to answer questions and give support without being criticsed and slandered.

At present I am not offering much advice as I do not wish to attract the kind of nasty vitriol down (that has too often come my way so far) on someone elses thread. Thanks for those who have supported my right to be here and speak, but I would rather, and do insist that certain individuals here simply refrain from their abuse.

I am also, to be honest, not really interested in hearing how bad anyone has had it as an argument against my ideas. I do not wish to take anything away from anyone elses efforts or suffering. I am saying yes this is very real and very dangerous and very painful and awful and it is heartbreaking for kids and yes yes yes we need to take steps and whether you stay with your man or leave him is not really the issue, healing the relationship problem you have is the issue but if you are interested yes it is possible to do that without divorcing, because I did!

I have lived through this problem and things are really good in my marriage now. My partner also admits openly that it was the steps I took which led to the change, he was not looking for change, but deep down he was looking for someone very solid who he could trust… I became that person. I think that gives me as much right as anyone to voice my opinion, and even at times politely disagree with others if it seems appropriate… like when someone has asked what I think about what someone else has said!

I look forward to your feedback on all of this and any constructive ideas,

Have a magic day…

Kim.

PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME FROM YOUR LIST
----- Original Message -----
From: Luciamailto:npd-cpt6364@lists.careplace.com
To: donnhew@msn.commailto:donnhew@msn.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] form your own opinion — http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57

I don’t believe in magic.

And who is the (utterly ignorant and anonymous) author of this tour de
force?

“It is widely accepted in the psychological community that a person
suffering from NPD does have a conscience and the ability to express genuine
remorse and regret.”

Sam:

It is widely accepted among psychologists and therapists and psychiatrists
that narcissists have no empathy (it is one of the major diagnostic criteria
for NPD) and, therefore, cannot and do not have a conscience and rarely if
ever feel remorse and regret. Whoever wrote this has no idea what he is
talking about. Send him or her this link for further edification:

Guilt? What guilt?

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4931

----- Original Message -----
From: “hopetoday” npd-cpt6364@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: [npd] form your own opinion —
http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57

After studying the archives on a variety of forums it seems that when Nr.
Vaknin becomes bored with a group or if he feels they are threatening him by
moving in a direction he is not comfortable than he ceases participation,
sometimes starting a new group on another list.

Sam:

The support forums I own or moderate have 15,000 members and are between 6
and 10 years old. Judge for yourselves whether to trust the rest of what
this liar has written.

The Narcissistic Abuse Study List

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/

The Toxic Relationships Study List

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toxicrelationships

Abusive Relationships Newsletter

http://groups.google.com/group/narcissisticabuse/

Participate in discussions about Abusive Relationships - click on these
links:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Narcissistic_Personality_Disorder/

http://ngoaccess.net/narcabuse/index.php

http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychopathsgroup/

http://groups.msn.com/NARCISSISTICPERSONALITYDISORDER

http://groups.msn.com/PSYCHOPATH

Archived discussion threads - click on these links:

http://www.suite101.com/discussions.cfm/npd

http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/discussions.cfm

http://www.suite101.com/discussions.cfm/verbal_emotional_abuse

http://www.suite101.com/discussuions.cfm/spousal_domestic_abuse

How many people had to call the police on their partner? You mean I should have called and reported the emotional abuse, mind games games,twisted reality, feeling insane to the police and they could have helped me. I wasted time and money on 5 different therapists, and all I had to do was call the police to help me. Are you telling me the police in my community know about NPD, when hardly no one else does. Not many N’s are physically abusive their worst weapon is their mouth. What are you talking about Kimco? You talk about the knowing and talking and working with the police, You think all N’s are physically abusive because Steve was, or where does that come from, police involvement? Maybe you should read Sam’s book, it is really good at explaining the behavior of an N. There are many others if you don’t like him.It is the mental torture they put you though. mamolie

Mamolie,you are so right about the mental torture,never before had I ever thought I would loose my mind untill I was married to my N.There was a fine line and I was too close to it.I am a strong woman and my faith is strong but this almost took my breath away.I am so very thankful to have come through this with a sound mind but it has taken me months to get to this place in my life.I never ever want to come in contact with another N as long as I live.It is like drinking poison a slow death to yourself.

Absolutely right about the mental torture… you think you are losing YOUR mind, even if you have been a grounded person before your N. You question yourself, because you want to take responsibility for your part in the mayhem, but in the end, it is NOT you, but it is the disorder, the crazy disorder. You try to make some sense, but there is none. He seems normal, sane… it has to be YOU. It takes time to figure out that there is nothing you can do, but even then you hang on for a miracle because you still love him and the way he used to be.

Speaking of police and law enforcement…my X-N is a federal law officer. I whole-heartedly believe that he got into law enforcement for supply and to feel powerful and he DEFINITELY abuses it. I know for a fact that the majority of men in his office are very much like him. It’s the good ol’ boy mentality and they stick up for each other. Scary thought to think that he has many guns and the power of law enforcement to go along with it. I know this post is a little off of topic, but I think there’s a lot of law enforcement people out there with narcissism. Not all, but I’ve ran into my share of them. And yes, they’d laugh at you for calling them for emotional abuse.

I agree. Everything they do is mental torture. The police can’t help. I’ve gone to the police before for help and they did nothing. I had to file a missing person’s report on my boyfriend at the time who disappeared for a week. I was laughed out of the police station…no joke.

I approached the big desk at the Chicago police station on State Street. Officer Berger came to the desk and I explained that I needed to file a missing person’s report. He said, “Yeah, on who?”

I responded, “On my boyfriend, well ex-boyfriend.”

He said, “Yeah, well how do you know he’s missing?”

To which I responded, “We live together.”

He then said, “Listen, I’m not going to file a missing person’s report for you because some guy left you and won’t return your phone calls.”

Shocked, I responded, “What?” At which point he proceeded to repeat himself and said the exact same thing only ruder and even more condescending.

I responded, “May I speak to another officer because I am already very upset as it is and the manner in which you’re talking to me is upsetting me even more?”

He said, “Sure lady, step on down and one of these officers would be glad to help you.” As I proceeded down to wait in another line to speak to a different officer, he yelled across the room, “Hey guys, get a load of this…this woman wants to file a missing person’s report because her boyfriend left her and won’t return her calls…ha!”

I looked up at the other officers at which point, a female officer asked, “Are you the lady that I just talked to on the phone?"

To which, I responded “yes.”

Now why would we help you if his mom won’t file a police report?” she asked. In response, several police officers, including Berger laughed aloud.”

I should have just explained that his mom asked me to file the report because she lives out of town (missing persons reports must be filed locally in person).

Unfortunately, I was a bit rattled already by the way they were treating me that I immediately became overly defensive. In response to what I perceived as an attack on my intelligence and rationale, I said something that in retrospect I realize was ridiculous, but you must understand the entire room of officers immediately put me on the defense. I was jet-lagged, exhausted and emotional. I didn’t know how to respond and blurted out, “This is a legitimate concern. I am educated and have my master’s degree. This is not a joke.”

At this point, the room of officers burst out into laughter and I ran into the bathroom because I could no longer hold back my tears. I pulled myself together and when I came out of the bathroom, I made a bee-line directly toward Officer Berger. With all the confidence I could muster, I asked him for his name and badge number. He laughed and said, “Sure, I’ll even write it down for you, if you’d like. How would you like that? No, on second thought…you should write it down, Ms. Masters.”

I asked him for a pen, to which he responded, “I don’t have one Ms. Master’s Degree, but I’m sure you do Ms. Master’s, don’t you?”

At that point, someone else in the room said, “No one cares that you have your master’s degree, lady. I think everyone in this room has their master’s.”

I tried to explain myself, but was immediately cut off by more laughter from the police officers in the room, most notably from Berger who continued to taunt me by calling me Ms. Master’s. At this point, I finished writing down his name and badge number and told him he would be sorry for treating me this way.

He stood up, stuck his chest out and loudly said, “Are you threatening a police officer, lady?” To which, the female officer chimed in again and said, “Are you threatening an officer, ma’am?”

I told them I was not and tried to ignore their laughter and snickering behind the desk. I went to another line again to wait to speak to another officer to re-file my missing person’s report. As I stood there and waited, no one would acknowledge me. There was another female officer behind the desk standing behind another officer waiting on some information from him as he looked at his computer and ignored me. I made eye contact with the female officer and said, “Ms….should I just leave? No one is going to help me, are they?”

She shook her head no, signaling me to leave and I left. The police don’t like to deal with intangibles. Mental abuse and disappearing acts are all too elusive to be taken seriously by the police. They have zero tolerance for these kind of issues.

You are right. Read this:

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal70.html

How Victims are Pathologized and re-abused by the System

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/5068

These may be of interest - click on the links:

Narcissism of authority figures

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/15.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq47.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq11.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal45.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal79.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal70.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/corporatenarcissism.html

Celebrity narcissists

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq19.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal73.html

Take care.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “mgcg” npd-cpt6364@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] form your own opinion —
http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57

Victim Reactions to Abuse by Narcissists and Psychopaths

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders70.html

Traumas as Social Interactions

http://samvak.tripod.com/trauma.html

How Victims are Affected by Abuse

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily21.html

How Victims are Affected by Abuse - Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily22.html

How Victims are Affected by Abuse - Recovery and Healing

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily23.html

----- Original Message -----
From: “Lucia” npd-cpt6364@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] form your own opinion —
http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57

PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME FROM YOUR LIST
----- Original Message -----
From: maryb2100mailto:npd-cpt6364@lists.careplace.com
To: donnhew@msn.commailto:donnhew@msn.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] form your own opinion — http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57

PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME FROM YOUR LIST
----- Original Message -----
From: DoubleDeemailto:npd-cpt6364@lists.careplace.com
To: donnhew@msn.commailto:donnhew@msn.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] form your own opinion — http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57http://healnpd.org/newa/modules/articles/article.php?id=57