Devaluing or rejecting your own child?

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

My bf has now decided that his 12 year old daughter is so much like her mother, who he feels is evil incarnate because she is so shut down and mean ‘a short, stocky pit bull’ (his words)…that he cannot cope with his own daughter.

It’s like he is reacting to his daughter as if she really were his ex wife, but she is only a 12 year old girl! Yes, she will be turning 13 shortly and is trying on the teenager ability to sulk and manipulate and is starting to test both her parents like a teenager does. But, she does live with her mom much of the time, and being that she is her mom’s daughter, her style, behavior, mannerisms, way of expressing herself, is often similar to that of her mother, of course. She is also her own person, or is trying to develop into her own person, but at 12, she has some of her mother’s traits, and some of her fathers traits, being that she is a girl, she her outward appearance and mannerisms are more like mom’s. Again, of course, this would be expected, right?

I don’t know what goes on when the duaghter is w/ her mother…if her mother rejects the part of her that is similar to her father (her mother hates her father as much as her father hates her mother)…but in our household, any similarities the 12 year old exhibits, any attitude that reminds her father (my bf) of his 16 years of ‘hell’ he lived through with his ex wife, triggers him as though his daughter IS just like her mother. Overall, the message I see being given to the daughter is ‘you are not okay just as your are”…and, while he thinks he is being helpful in attempting to undo the damage he assumes the mother is doing to the daughter (because she is so shut down and cut off and crusty in his opinion and is modeling this for the daughter)…what he is really doing most of the time is rejecting anything about his daughter that is even remotely like mom.

For example, she is enthralled with a lot of the Disney based teenager entertainment shows. Not my cup of tea, but then I’m 43 years old, why would it be my cup of tea? If I were 12, I’d probably be into it. He see’s it as an extension of the mother’s laziness in letting them watch TV all the time, their minds are being fed on a steady diet of bullshit corporate consumerism and empty headed sugar coated messages via the Disney channel and that the mother is to blame for such stupid and thoughtless parenting…she is lazy in his opinion. He does not even have cable TV in his home; he finds it a waste of time. Fine…but instead of tolerating or accepting that his daughter does enjoy this form of entertainment as a 12 year old, he is constantly sending the message that her mother is a bad parent for letting her watch this stuff, and that she is bad for liking it. She can’t chat about it, or bring up something she saw that she especially liked, without a lecture from him about what bullshit Disney is and corporate consumerism blah blah blah. This has been going on for a while now.

I think she is finally just giving up and realizing her father doesn’t want to hear anything she has to say and doesn’t enjoy listening or chatting about any of the things she is drawn to in her life as a 12 year old. She is starting to shut down (big surprise). The mother has a crusty outer exterior and is in many ways “shut down”; so when my bf rejects his daughter and ignores her that is her way of ‘coping’…by shutting down and putting on this crusty ‘I don’t give a shit what you think’ exterior, just like mom does. Again, no big surprise, this is not rocket science. He doesn’t see his part in helping create this growing crusty outer exterior at all…he only sees the mom to blame. The 12 year old’s crusty exterior only fuels his negative reaction to her, as he gets triggered more and more and insists more and more that she is turning out just like her mother. She is only twelve flippin years old!!! This little girl is caught between two parents, both of whom summarily reject either parent as having any redeeming qualities, thus in essence, both parents are telling this child she comes from two people who are both completely fucked up and have no redeeming qualities. This child is being told…”Don’t act like your mom around me or I won’t be able to love you” from dad….and mom is sending the message that dad is an asshole and not to be trusted, indeed, men as a whole are not to be trusted and life is one big negative emotional roller coaster ride so you better develop an hard outer exteriour now to protect yourself. Hmmmm….and we wonder why people grow up having such completely confused, fucked up relationships.

I hate seeing this. And, there’s not a god damn thing I can do to make it better.

#2

It’s not a pretty picture is it?

And yet it seems typical considering what we read and hear about N’s.

It must be frustrating and heartbreaking to witness.

It seems like it should be 2nd nature to want to protect, nurture, challenge and support your children. Your story reminds me of many frustrations, aggravations and criticisms my exN/S had of my kid, and despite me being biased, I have a good kid!

Do you talk to your partner about it? What does he say? How does he react? Does he get any awareness about himself as a father through you?

Do you support the daughter in any way? perhaps as as port in the storm?

My own son is 12, and life is so much calmer for him since I broke up with my N, but this is a critical time of change it seems where he is exercising more and more of his own personality, tastes, needs, adopting whats cool which I support while I challenge him to hold onto who he is and always has been too.

I think about the daughter and it seems she has shit coming at her from every direction at a time when exploring unchartered territory only just STARTS getting scary.

critical, critical time!

#3

I do talk to him about it. I’m learning that when he is overwhelmed or in a bad place emotionally, it’s not productive to bring forth anything becasue he feels too attacked or too flooded to hear what I am saying. If I let a day or two go by, he can usually decompress and then he will sometimes begin to listen to what I have to say and reflect a little bit. It came to a head the other night becasue the mother kind of ambushed him…and then drew the daughter into a confrontation wherein the duaghter explained that she didnt want to stay at her fathers place anymore because he doesn’t listen ot her. I think partly the daughter does feel not listened to a good deal of the time, espeically when he can’t embraced or at least tolerate her interest in certain entertainment choices and such. But also, he had to discipline her the other day because she was being cruel to her younger brother. So, partly she doesn’t not feel heard and would like him to acknowledge her better…but it is sort of trap, becasue when she goes to her mom to express her frustration…the mom then turns what is not a completly unsual situation into evidence that he is completly unfit and uses it as leverage to jump to the conclusion that the daughter should not have to live with her father at all. Another tact might to instead of attacking my bf and ganging up on him with the idea that his duaghter need not live with him at all…to just ask what could she do as the mother to help him feel more comfortable in talking with his teenage duaghter about the things SHE likes. The mom is as black and white in her thinking as he is…sometimes moreso. I honestly don’t know at this point if he suffers from PTSD from living with the mom for 16 years or if she suffers from PTSD from living with him…in this situation is is very hard to know what came first, it’s sort of a chicken/egg situation…whereas in other cases I see on CP there seems to be a more clear cut line between the partent that is mentally ill and the parent who is pretty balanced but maybe worn down from managing a troubled partners’ many moods and erratic behavior. It’s hard to tell in this case which is which. I do try to suppor the daugher but am careful to not muck it up and make it even more confusing for her…I just keep telling her that both parents love her very much and she is okay just the way she is…and then I try to model being calm and nonplussed whenever I am around her and make a point to keep the environment sturctured and nurturing. That’s all I can do at this point…and keep speaking to my bf on those occasions when he can hear me. Sigh.

#4

sigh indeed :frowning:

“who he feels is evil incarnate because she is so shut down and mean”

Am sure the same has been said about me. And worse.

All the worst damage that my husband has done me has been post separation, I thot being married to him was hard, but it is nothing close to getting apart from him. I was tormented by my marriage and I am demented by my break up. When you give up the fight for a partnership with an N and become the devil incarnate because of it, I can identify with being shut down and mean as its the ony defence mechanism I have mustered.

For my kids sake, oh how I would love to be able to speak to him civily and discuss them. but Ive not a chance in hell of managing that without every attempt causing further grief and further damage. He wont contact me about xmas, and this year Im not even gonna ask, just a minefield which he controls.

My own daughter has paid the price for inheriting strong traits from both pareents. My story is such a compicated mess.

Its hard to know your messng up your kids al because your jobshare works against you at every opportunity and nothing you can do or say will ever make that better, but it can ALWAYS make it worse.

I just know how truly awful I am portrayed to be, and he beieves it all and I know he will justify as the need arises every single ounce of what he has created,

I dont know how to wind up what I am saying, or if what ive said is even reevant, Its a sad stae of affairs, but my husband, despite having a pregnant partner, treats me as badly as he possibly can, and get away with it. Covert phsychological warfare does not end when you leave or go no contact, not when there are kids involved. Kids just make yo a very easy target.

Thats just my exerience am sad to say

xx

#5

I can imagine hearing that both parents love her can be confusing, if thats what their love is. This is one of those times I realize why my T kept reminding me I can never go back to my exN/S, because he cant be allowed to be around my son anymore. Except the 12 yr old youre talking about has no other parents to get healthy love from or even see it role modeled for her own eventual adult life.

I’m glad she has one calm person in her space (you).

I wonder when I read your posts if watching how he treats his daughter from another woman, how much your hope in him to be a decent family man with you is shaken.

I remember watching my exN/S with my son and having this niggling, slow-growing thought in the back of my head, even while I got pregnant with his baby, that I would need to be mentally and financially prepared to make it on my own, to remove myself and my child from the environment where he is if only to protect the spirit of an innocent child who didnt deserve the misery of a faher who only had his own best interests at heart.

I know your partner is less afflicted than mine was, and maybe these kinds of things are only episodes rather than styles of relating in your case.

But I am sure its no easy feat to know everything you know about N’s, love him, maintain your own stability and then watch a dependent child be tossed around in the mix.

#6

Nic

children

embodiments of our own soft underbellies
where we’re most vulnerable
the small people who remind us of how we werent protected as children

I hope you do ask your kids about seeing them over the holidays

I would want my son to know I cared enough about seeing him that I would suffer through any grief his dad put me through about it. I think in those circumstances their feeling missed and wanted by their mom is important.

…and I hope you dont let the bastard get you too bothered. Keep going, one foot in front of the other…for yourself…for your kids…for the new life you have ahead of you.

#7

No, it’s not easy. I really don’t know how long I can do this, or to what ends. The weird pattern I keep seeing is 2-3 weeks of total normalacy…just pleasant, normal exchanges and responses, the ability to more or less cope with even stressfull stuff, pleasant and loving exchanges between the two of us…it last for about 2, sometimes 3 weeks.

Just when I start to think wow…there is no way we can get along this well and keep having the difficulites of the past…becasue it’s been so good and so…easy…just when I’m thinking fondly about us and him and how hard we have worked and how nice it is to reap the benefits of our hard work…it’s right then that like clock work…shit hits the fan.

And we go into the black hole. He spirals into negativity and looses all perspective and resillience for coping. His negative spiral will go on for a couple of day, maybe a week. I use to p/u the rope right away, but I sometimes congratulate my self on just no tryingot argue, fix, lecture, or DO anything other than act dumb and happy and go along MY merry way and take extra good care of myself and get extra involved in my own projects and my own life. But sometimes, while he is in this dark hole…he will finally do something that I feel I can’t ignore, like the way he spoke to his daughter the other night. When she left, he made some crack to her …I think it was…‘good job sport, keep it up, that was just great, keep it up’…in sacrastic anger…implying that she is playing into her mothers hands by going to her and complaining about him. His comment was mean, dripping w/ sarcasism, and the keep it up statement…to my ears sounded like a veild threat that she can kiss him good bye for good if she is going to be ‘plyaing these games’. Again…putting it all her…making the situation all her fault, at 12, rather than telling her Gee, I am so sorry your mom and I can’t get along better, this must be really hard for you, but I want you to know I’m always hear no matter what. So, when his daughter left, and he said those snarky, unkind words to her, I just blew. He couldn’t hear a thing I was saying, he felt I was siding w/ the mom, I had to point out the obvious to him…I’m advocating for the fing 12 year old!!! How can someone so smart be at times so fing dense?

Any way…it’s the dark hole were in right now. It comes in cycles. The only real diagnosis he has ever gotten is cyclothymia, which is bi-polar “light”. I get the feeling this is typical of living w/ somone w/ bi polar, that must the up and down cycle I’m seeing and living with.

He comes home last night and clearly wants alone time. So I do my own thing and go for a run etc. I was fixing dinner for another hour when he finally comes outof the bedroom having been resting. First thing out of his mouth is a commetn that I’m making too much noise. Okay, I was thinking “oh good, I’ve let him have his down time, have been a happily doing my own thing for 2 hours, but now my partner is going to join me and we’re going to have a pleasant evening together”…instead a grumpy, disheveled guy is standing in front of me commetning on how I am making too much noise. Okay, whatever, move alonge, dumb and happy, dumb and happy. He sits down and starts to snack on something; I ask him how his day was. Now, this simple little question that is concurrently being asked in millions of homes in America on a Friday night as a loving invitation for two people to share their day…this little quesiton in our home is fraught with land minds. Becasue often, this simple little questions, leads to him spiraling into a 1 or 2 hours vomitorium of negativivity that later I will be blamed for starting becasue I asked him how his day was. It’s getting to the point that I don’t know what I can say at ALL…at least not while he’s in the black hole. Well, I venture forth and ask, how was your day. You know what he tells me? He tells me he ‘lost it’ a little bit in the morning. I assume he means he got testy w/ an employee as I know several projects that are creating problems. No, apparently the new vulupuous attractive female 26 year old employee came around the corner to his office just as he was slamming down the phone and cursing over another converstation that had nothing to do with her, she just happened to come around the corner as he hung up the phone…and was saying something like “fing A” . Seeing this, she turned on her heel and went in the other direction. He called to her, she not only walked away from his office but out the office door,apparently in tears. So what does he do? He follows her to look for her. I can just see this going on in this small office, this female employee tearfully running out the door (over nothing…the phone call obviously had nothing to do with her) and there’s my bf, the owner of the company running after her calling her name. As he explains it, he finds her in the parking lot in her car, where she then apologizied for her emotional outburst, and he got an opportunity according to him to apologize for his inappropriate behavior (again, cursing in a small office is probably not that cool but the call had nothing to do with her). So, I’m still confused, why was SHE so upset and running out of the office in tears? Oh, he says, becasue she is having her period.

I just sat there with my mouth hanging open. He is the owner of the company. He is 44 years old. She was hired just a month ago. And they already have the kind of relationship where this girl feel comfortable running out of the office in tears and then discussing her menstrual cycle with him?

Yea, I can see the writing on THAT wall. What utter bullshit. Here we go down the “let’s not have any boundaries whatsoever” road. Been there, done that a million times with this man. I told him, youknow what, I think I’m going to go see some friends, and left the house. I rolled my eyes when he told me this story and and asked incredulously 'so this woman feels comfortabel talking to you about her PERIOD???"…and he of course got immediately defensive (as though he hasnt created huge cluster f’s time and time again by having these kinds of no boundry relationships with female employees).

I don’t want to talk to him about it anymore. I don’t want to argue about it anymore. I don’t want to be beat up and painted as the ‘bad guy’ or the ‘thought police’ anymore. He can do whatever the f he wants. I can’t invest anymore time point out that he is waling straight into the rotter blades, once again.

Ahh…the black hole. Good times, good times (NOT).

#8

Oh, and wouldn’t it have been lovely if he had raced after his daughter to have a quiet and tender moment of reconciliation with HER, his own fucking 12 year old daughter who had just been put into a meat grinder by both her parents and had something REAL to be upset over, instead of having all that motivation and concern directed and acted out for the 26 year old ding bat female employee who is having her fucking period. FUCK!!!

#9

I suppose if he had a childhood where his needs werent addressed compassionately and attentively by his parents, then its not likely he’ll think his daugher deserves it. (ggr this is bringing up some angering memories on things my exN/S said about my son).

Jesus SMG, its not sounding good at all. Whats the plan? I know you were hinting at maybe planning to leave, maybe sticking it out for as long as you can for financial reasons. I dont know how you live through this stuff and still do well in school and create your future. Actually I do remember living with my exN/S, the insane rollercoaster and finding work was my refuge, the 8 hours a day where things could be calm, I could be present in the moment with the kids, and shut all the BS out.

Whether its Nism, bi-polar lite, or somewhere on the Autism spectrum it seems like youre swimming against the current with him. I remember feeling that for years, and can only now, looking back, see how I started to deteriorate, my looks, physical health, energy level, enthusiasm for life waned like a slow leak in a tire. I hope thats not happening to you, and if it is you find ways to shore yourself up.

…and I’m not even sure what to say about the daughter.

I know you cant be her therapist, is it possible to gently suggest she get in to see one?

#10

"I use to p/u the rope right away, but I sometimes congratulate my self on just no trying to argue, fix, lecture, or DO anything other than act dumb and happy and go along MY merry way and take extra good care of myself and get extra involved in my own projects and my own life. "

This was how I lived for years and years, just making the best of my life. On reflection, it was dispassionate, and it was depressing, but you make the best of things and be as happy as you can be you move ON from the bad stuff and wake up each day with optimism. My life was mostly business and kids, and he enjoyed the benefits, but alway a something you feel you cant ignore comes along, and WHAM, just in case you forgot, you cant win any battle or fight to be heard, psychological combat is the game, the modus operandus of NPD It is a shut up and put up existence as you make for the best you can. But thats when the game lifts to that next level. “he will finally do something that I feel I can’t ignore” And on and on it goes. Destroying the love, destroying the intimacy as you struggle to be someone you are not - that shut up and put up person trying to live a pleasant day to day existence, trying to avoid the mines - not eggshells - believing you know where they are, only to have the goal posts shifted and have some grenades added to the mines. And usualy its about NOTHING. This story from the office, it is probably going to be an unfolding nightmare for you. He has drawn you right in to something, something and nothing - something he will have created. Something not quite right. Something you will - and already ARE upset about. Youve been there with this type of scenario before. strikes me as a huge diversion from what is relevant here. The smokescreening. You guys making the living arrangements work, you guys making the new dynamic with the kids and the ex wife work. Its a huge thing for you all. Yet here is some woman from the office playing centre stage, and its not something you can ignore. he already drew huge attention to it with his behaavour on friday night- message being - this is a something that needs YOUR attention - your negative attention, a drama.

I know you live with him now - how long has it been? And I presume this is why you have more involvement with the children. This 2-3 week cycle, has the cycle shortened now that you live together?

My husband is plausible so much of the time. A more loving (apparent) father you could not meet, he has the gooey eye thing for his kids, but he turns on them, particularly my daughter in a moment. But because he does gooey eyes and sentimentality, and has an ability to draw their compassion and empathy, which he rewards, he gets away with it.

I know you love this guy, and I know I’m putting my negative slant on things, and you probably just need to rant off and stuff, but I relate so much to the scenarios that you describe.

One thing tho…Wen I was married my sis in law, and I shared similar problems, as did another friend. We ranted to each other all the time. I often wonder how I would have survived without my friends to rant off to. And the truth of it is that I probably would not have. My friend is in another relationship now and has some problems, although I listen and talk to her, I always say, and she unerstands this totally… ‘he is your boyfriend, the one you love, the one you are having this relationship with, and you need to speak to HIM’ And I say this because it was different wen we were married with children - breaking up a family has such far reaching effects, and I am personally glad I managed to stay as long as I did, as my kids dont have to be held in this grip for too many years. But I say to her, its you and its him, and it has to be good and it has to be right, youo have to KNOW where you are with him.

I just dont envy you. I feel your frustration, and I identify with it, and to so many of the ‘symptoms’ you describe. What I do feel strongly is that the NPD dont set out to be bad, they dont WANT to hurt or upset you, per se. It just happens and its not their fault, and they hurt themselves along the way and their inability to empathise makes the pain all theirs, and you the perpetrator.

I wish I had some positive encouraging words for you, I really really do,

xx

#11

- This story from the office, it is probably going to be an unfolding nightmare for you. He has drawn you right in to something, something and nothing - something he will have created. Something not quite right. Something you will - and already ARE upset about. Youve been there with this type of scenario before. strikes me as a huge diversion from what is relevant here. The smokescreening. You guys making the living arrangements work, you guys making the new dynamic with the kids and the ex wife work. Its a huge thing for you all. Yet here is some woman from the office playing centre stage, and its not something you can ignore. he already drew huge attention to it with his behaavour on friday night- message being - this is a something that needs YOUR attention - your negative attention, a drama.

Nic, it seems like your experience does have a lot of similarities to mine.  Can you expand what it is you  mean in the above paragraph...from your expereince I mean? 

With living together, the cycle seems short now. Before, when we did not live together, shit would hit the fan roughly every 3 months.  With a lot of work, we extended that out so that we did not have the same shit storms every 3 months...in fact, we almost emlimated major shit storms.  More mild ups and downs were there, but they wen't dramatic.

Since moving in with him, we go about 2-3 weeks of normalacy...then he goes into negative land and it feels like a black hole him needing quiet time, being depressed and irritable and negative, and with intermittent more dramatic acting out that if I react to or try to limit...can sometimes get real ugly, such as last months tantrum on the ground etc. 

Again, he cleary has some real challenges and some real wounding. we all do.  But, his might be more dramatic and more dysfunctional in the context of attempted intimacy.  It is what it is. I apologize, by the way, for my language and ourburst in this string...I am really just venting my frustration.  I think you are right Nic, it is what it is, he doesn't TRY to hurt people or screw up relationships, he just operates from where he is, which is at times quite challenged and quite wounded. I can hate him for it anymore than I can hate a cancer patient for having cancer. It is what it is. 

Pheonixx...I hear you...being worn down over time, feeling and not looking yourself...being sucked dry.  I am just trying to hard to keep my awareness of that very thing.  I don't want to go down the road...or at least I don't want to go down it so far that it will take years to find my way back.

 

 

 

#12

smg, (we’re the same age btw …for some reason, i had you mid thirties! bet you look it!!! - mid thirties i mean :slight_smile: )

Sorry, got caught up in the tv there and have forgotten what i am responding to, in lawyer speak, I will have to “revert to you in due course” LOL.

xx

#13

on expanding my story, I struggle to write what I do, but I details of my story may well unfold. Basically it was always same old same old. Every situation LOOKED different, but it always came down to the same ofl thing, something out of nothing, a creation. the REAl issues did not exist they were smokescreened with anything and everything. Just those pointless mis=understandings, the basics not understood.

I visited that site having followed a link - her and steve? They were on here for a while, I can t remmeber her name right now, but it all sounds so promising. have you looked into that - as a matter of interest? I so would of liked the opportunity to know about and explore NPD and try, at least ot deal with it, for future knowledge if nothing else. Does that make sense? My H was not the enemy in my eyes, not until way affter I left him and realised that I had become the devil incarnate - how the heck did THAT happen!!

Will revert!!!

xx

#14

I didnt think my exN/S was trying to hurt the relationship either. It always seemed clear he could talk a beautiful game, but he always seemed tow ant what he wanted when he wanted, anyone else be damned.

And part of his schtick was needing the freedom and space to do that which required a helluva lot of manipulation in order to have the control and the power. He needed to be able to make those choices, he needed to be shame free for them so he’d turn it all around so I’d end up feeling like the one who needed to make amends, and he needed to be sure I’d still be there while he was doing them.

None of that seems to be about purposely hurting or undermining the relationship…but all of it hurt me and undermined the relationship, so in the end the motives and intentions dont add up to a hill of beans for me, the outcome was the same. In his mind it was me or him, and he was going to make sure it was always him - despite telling me he loved me.

And whether he has a personality disorder and cant help it, or how his parents trained him to be and he cant help it, or he’s just an asshole and cant help it, I think I will never think of it like cancer, know why? Because someone having cancer doesnt purposely do emotional, physical and spiritual damage to OTHERS, particularly LOVED ONES like Nism does.

An enemy soldier from an invading country storms my house and threatens the lives of me and my children. He cant help it either. He’s just blindly following the orders of his commanding officer, and in his fear, self-preservation and allegiance to the protection of his platoon he turns his site on me. I can feel frozen in fear, or mobile in righteous anger.

“Get the fuck out of my house (and away from my children) you bastard” is all I can think when it seems clear his thinking is its him or me.

But then I’ve already lived through the experieNce of being with a N/S, I think that part of me is changed in a very deep way. MY boundaris and tolerances seem, at least outside of any intimate relationship anymore, to be steelclad and riddled with mines. I dont think I have what it takes to be that understanding, that compassionate or that forgiving ever again.

I think if I hit my head against any wall that remotely resembled anything like this again, I’d just calmly turn and walk in a different direction, away from him and towards open air, maybe to find someone else who isnt so much a wall.

I am always amazed at how you keep your own righteous anger in check so that it doesnt leak into the space between you and HIM and make the situation you want to be better, get any worse. But really I dont know how you do it.

The 12 yr old daughter gets punished for being cruel to a younger sibling. When does your partner ever get punished for being cruel to you or his children? How does the raising of a man with the personality of a child take place? How can you even exercise that kind of power in a relationship with an adult male who pays the bills and is likely physically stronger and is the daughters biological father with all the rights that entails? I’m trying to imagine the trajectory of his eventual maturity…does it stand a chance at happening? it would be amazing if it did…but how?

and even more meaningful to me - when and how do you get your needs met when it sounds like youre dancing so gracefully in balancing his disorder and your sanity.

You said he was diagnosed with bi-polar lite…is he medicated?

#15

I’ve revisted my last post, edited, added, edited and added some more.

I apologize though for running off at the mouth.

You venting your frustrations, reminds me of my own…and so I suppose I vented some too.

I bet its not what you needed to hear, but if it means anything, there are times like Nic, I wish I could do something for you…and realize I cant.

I’m very sorry to hear youre going through this again, and that his daughter is too. Love seems to be such a simple idea, and yet it seems riddled with so many boobytraps and funhouse mirrors.

#16

Interestingly enough, I actually coped pretty well with my H, I had a busy work and socila life and we did most thigs separately - he had his and I had mine. he just always got more of the goodies than me - so if I took a weekend with friends, he had at least 5 boys weeekends away. He avoided responsibility in the business, because I was “better at it than him”. All that ceased to bother me. tho had i known how much it might cost me, I guess it would have been dirfferent - but thats another story - the bid D battle!!

It was my kids that made me leave.

He was the big disciplinarian. ( he ranted about American TV shows too, but was a telly addict himself! ) What I saw - and what I hoped for more than anything, was two young people outgrowing their father, two young people with better behaviour than their father He was irresponsible and spoilt, a taker and a faker, and I wanted more for my kids. I wanted them to know that his behaviour was not acceptable. Despite my many coping and management strategies, it was not good enough that I stood for being treated wrongly, and i felt it my responsibility to say no more. I deserve respect. How could I expect my kids to do well if I raised them in an envoronment where one partner is not treated appropriately?

It was ok for HIM to have tantrums, it was ok for HIM to be lazy, it was ok for HIM to be rude etc etc. He actually used to say to the kids - DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO!!!

I had kind of forgotten, until today, that it was my kids and their future that made me take the decision to end my marriage. My young uns had more compassion, more maturity and a growing sense of responsibility, which I felt I could not nurture while I lived the life of an underdog.

The abuse of me since I left, has only served to prove that I took the right decision. The road out of hell is not an easy one.

#17

The road out of hell is not an easy one.

 

Aint that the truth :(

I cant tell you how grateful I am that my child's father is NOT the N of my life.  I am still grieving over the loss of the pregnancy with my N/S, I was quite "in love" with that little spirit when I lost it.  But in reading your post I remember my N telling me the story of how his abusive N mother took him away from his abusive neglectful father whom he loved.  When he relayed how painful it was, he looked at me and said "if you ever would take our child away from me, I'd kill you."

 

He didnt mean make my life miserable, he meant actually kill me.

 

Either way I dont know how I would cope fighting with him to protect a child we shared.  I know how awful it would be and then I imagine any of the rest of you being in that position and my heart aches.  All the hope and care and protectiveness we have for them in play against someone who lies, betrays, charm and neglects, punishes and uses....ugh.

 

Its a horrible mess I wish none of us had to deal with.

 

(many hugs)

#18

In any other situation I would be horrified and ashamed to have done what I did, which was abort a child.

I had wanted more children, but realised over time, and ultimately, when this happened that it was not possible with him. The pregnancy was an accident, about 7 years ago now, how could I have done that??? It brought my life into focus. I just KNEW I would not survive introducing this new life with him. ( I realise now that The child would have been his equivalent of atomic warfare.) I just could not do it, and i knew it. (I believe that I would have gone under. I knew nothing of NPD then. )

She visited my house a few times last winter, and would run around upstairs - she was noisy!! A friend of mine who is very spiritual was with me one time, and he heard her and felt her too. She told him, what she told me. After which, she went with my friend. who feels a number of spirits around him. I dont feel them, I have only ever felt one, and that was her, who came to say that its ok, to be at peace with what happened, because everything happens for a reason.

Balloney - who knows, but that is how it happened, and thinking of her, as I am just now, gives me a warm feeling.

If anyone had told me 20 years ago that i would be aborting a child conceived in marriage i would have laughed in their face.

Funny how life does not happen as you expect, funny the decisions our circumstances dictate. Funny weird old life.

xx

#19

SMG

do you attend AlAnon or any other support group that promotes detachment?

I asked because I’ve been thinking about you a lot today , about how you stay and hold onto yourself and your health and wondered what kind of support you get on such a tough tightrope to walk?

#20

Nic,

thank you for sharing that with me.

My N after all the years of telling me how happy he’d be to have a child with me, when I finally did become pregnant, he told me to abort it. He was going to law school and he’d be damned if he let anything get in the way of him going, even me. When I told him after a couple weeks of agonizing over the decision and us going to therapy together that I was going to have it, and that I expected him to continue to lawschool and not to worry I make enough money to support a family and am used to being a single mother - he said no child of his would be born out of wedlock, and no child of his would bwe born with an absent father.

I didnt know what to make of all that except it seemed at least in his eyes it was an impossible situation.

But he suddenly accepted it and was calm and loving. After that I had what seemed like a miscarriage. It wasnt until a week or so later that blood tests showed I was still pregnant but no longer viable, and I was left with no other choice than a chemical termination…a decision…I had to make, there was no other…but one I agonize over still.

I was alone in the Womens College Hospital when I acquiesced to the methotrexate shots and sat sobbing in ER. It was the darkest day of my entire time with him.

But in the end, what difference did it make? he got what HE wanted.

And I still think about the black haired, brown eyed willful spitfire of a girl a psychic had told me he and I would have together.

(crying now as I write this)

Funny, last year when he and I saw each other last he told me about mutual friends and their son. I said “he is the same age our child would be if she’d survived”

He sobbed right there in the restaurant (not something my big tough badboy N/S would ever do) and all he could say was “I’m sorry”

“for what?”

“for everything.”

I dont know to this day what the scope is of what he was trying to say, but I can hazard a guess.

what can you do? even if things werent meant to happen in soem cosmic kismet, they play out that way anyway, because of decisions we make, or others make for us. All we can do is somehow learn to let go…of grief, hatred, fear, or remorse.

So reading your last post is a kind, tender reminder of that.