You’re free to stop interacting with this particular string ANYtime you like. I’m not going anywhere.
T
This conversation is becoming ridiculous. Nobody is being USED here. I compare you to my N, I compare Mamolie’s life to what my life could have been. I listen to the advice of people who are further along in the healing process then I am and I help those who are on my level. This forum is an exchange that aids everyone in the healing process. I think Mam my have a point. You can’t be here and not expect to get your feathers ruffled from time to time. Hearing our truths has got to be hard for you. However, it is OUR truths and I don’t think anyone here is taking sides. I see your side of it and I definately see Mamolie’s. I’m glad that you’re here trying to work on yourself but you must know that it’s not going to be easy for you.
I have to agree with Mamolie’s last posting. We are all here for support, help, a shoulder to cry on, talk with someone that knows what we are feeling and how to deal with this extremely hurtful and devestatiing time in our lives. We are here to help each other and understand and be there for each other. We don’t need someone here that is starting arguments, bringing out the terrible feelings we are trying to get over, or scolding us just because they don’t like what we have to say or because of the way we are feeling. WE DON’t NEED IT!!
This is a NPD forum and if you read the mojority of these postings, they are from people whose lives have been ripped apart because of N’s. WE are trying to get away from them, they have hurt us and tortured us and caused our lives to be a living hell. We CANNOT have them in this support forum to hurt, frustrate or aggravate us and have us relive these feelings when we are looking for support from others that have experienced what we are going through.
Perhaps there should be two, or even three NPD forums for those that want to pursue other avenues to discuss their side of things, however, it is my understanding, and I can see that several of you also feel the same way, that this particular forum is for those of us trying to get our lives back together after others have screwed us up…mentally and emotionally, and they have even convinced us that WE are the ones that can’t love enough or do anything right.
I’m not going to start arguing with anyone about this, I simply had to say what I am feeling and I wanted to agree with, and support Mamolie because she HAS been and is EXTREMELY helpful and supportive and has given SO much useful and valid advice and she really cares about everyone on this forum. I for one can say that she has done so much for me and helped me when I needed her most, when I was a total basket case. She gave me the calming voice I needed hear and the best advice I could have had at that time. This place has helped me tremendously and I am so thankful for it.
You’re free to stop interacting with this particular string ANYtime you like. I’m not going anywhere.
T
Um…Is it me or do you hear a obstinate child in this post?
Sorry just making an observation.
I’m totally wierded-out and I think will perhaps just take a break from all this for a while …
I have never heard Tim try to control anything said or shared on this site…I am certainly not curtailing what I write because I know Tim might read it…I HOPE HE READS IT!!! What I saw happening was a person strongly presenting an opinion that there is NO hope for someone w/ NPD…and THAT caused two people who are struggling w/ NPD to react…one left the forum, her choice, another pointed out that he cannot accept the opinion as he is too invested in the idea that he can improve. So what? Why is anyone wrong here? Why should anyone feel they have to leave?(unless being truly onbnoxious or disruptive) If Tim disagrees or has a different opinion…can’t the attitude be “we agree to disagree”. It was suggested that there is NO HOPE for someone like him, and he fought back. I would too!!! That he disagrees and is arguing for the idea that he can improve makes him toxic for others on this site? First off…both Tim and BDT100 are being given WAY too much power here…it is his opinion and his right to fight for the hope that he can get better, and it is BDT past expereinces that informs her opinons and ideas. Also, BDT did not chase Kim off…she does not have the power here to chase anyone off. Tim likewise does not have the power to make anyone here “feel bad” curtail your opinions, or edit what you would like to write or express about your experience. Write what you want to write. If as you start typing you find you are worried about the fact that Tim might read it, doesn’t that teach us more about our own co-dependance than it does the other’s narcissism? DON’T YOU SEE THAT IS EXACTLY THE EXCERCISE THAT IS NEEDED FOR ALL OF US HERE???..WRITE IT ANYWAY!!! GOD DAMN IT!!! WRITE EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL, WHO GIVEs A FLYING F IF TIM OR SOMEONE ELSE DISAGREES? ISN’T THAT MORE THERAPUETIC THAN SIMPLY PREACHING TO THE CHOIR??? THAT WE MAY FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF TIM OR WE ARE THINKING ABOUT HIM ALL THE TIME OR FIND OURSELVES SPENDING TOO MUCH ENERGY TRYING TO HELP HIM, OR GOD FORBID HE ACTUALLY DISAGREES WITH US…THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANT PRACTICE ON…NOT WORRYING ABOUT TIM AND SPEAKING MY TRUTH ANYWAY! WITH TIM, OR ANYONE ELSE! TO MAKE THE “TIM’S” OF THE WORLD MAGICALLY DISAPEAR ISN’T GOING TO HELP ME ONE GOD DAMN LITTLE BIT LEARN TO ACKNOWLEGE THAT MY FEELINGS, BOUNDARIES AND ATTITUDES ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS HIS. Preaching to the choir won’t help me learn that either. Someone recently brought up the concept of boundaries…, I THINK WE SHOULD ALL MOVE OVER TO THAT POST!!! When I last left this string…it looked like everyone stuck up for themselves but also ended up listening to each other, there was an adult sort of calm that came in, sort of an “agree to disagree” attitude between BDT and TIM… AND then it got all weird again.
I would think those of us who have suffered so badly and seen how bad this disorder can get would be relieved to see someone looking at himself, asking questions, and wanting to learn, and fighting for his life. My tendancy to be co-dependant may come out in my dealings with Tim…you know what? GOOD! I’m going to practice on him until I get it right! Tim has no special POWERS over me.
When I found this site…I thought FINALLY…a place where people can talk honestly, where thoughtful and intelligent ideas were being shared, and healing for all could be attempted. I WANT the Tim’s of the world here…I want to see what he is all about and make sure I am taking care of myself regardless of how charming, seductive or sincere Tim or any other person is this world I might run accross might be. It’s not about TIM…if I’m so co dependent that the idea someone w/ narcissistic tendancies who lives thousands of miles away from me has he power to somehow mezmorize me or take away my own power on a forum like this…then I need NOT be on a NPD site but start attending nightly co-dependant- AA style meetings immediately…I don’t want to live in a cocoon afraid that any glib smooth talking man or woman w/ that comes my way is going to possess my soul, invade my space against my will, and wreck havoc w/ my life. Yes, with Kim’s last entry on this string, her strong reaction and leaving reminded me of when my bf would feel “attacked” and run off. I was GLAD to see it. In my mind, it was like “there it is…it’s not my bf doing it…it’s happening right now, it’s being played out right now, this is what it looks like.” I am not insane, and it is not my fault as I had not even posted at that point. I saw a tiny slice of what I have struggled w/ this year played out. It was informative. It was eye opening. I’m not saying it makes Kim a bad person or there is no hope…but her response to me seemed typical of an overblown reaction that I have come to identify as narcissistic (I’m feeling attacked, it’s your fault, I’m leaving you because of it) …it was BENEFICIAL for me to see that happening here. Tim could have run too, but he did not. The exchange between Tim and momolie where she imlores him to also think about other and how wounded they must be feeling…I just think there is a lot of good stuff here and right now we’re missing the forest for the trees.
Ladies!!! We need to stop this maddness!!! This thread is completely ridiculous in that it is being controlled by and twisted by a Narcissist!! Haven’t we all come here trying to figure out how to get out from under the thumb? We are all desperately trying to get our point across and get Tim to agree - it ain’t happening! The most frustrating part of my relationship with my N was the twisted arguing - it was absolutely amazing how we’d go round and round and he wouldn’t back down - ever! He was always right, I was always wrong - his mind was made up, don’t confuse him with facts. I finally realized that no amount of common sense or logic was going to get through to him and that all I was doing with the incessant arguing was degrading myself and lowering myself to his level. That is exactly what is happening here and I refuse to participate with it. I was “happy” that Tim was here because I thought we could learn from him - maybe we can, later. Right now, he needs to have his temper tantrum and we need to step away…sorry Tim, I’ve taken enough abuse at the hands of my N - I don’t need more from you. I’m going back to the helpful, concerned, and truly healing posts that this forum is for.
About hope for someone with NPD… i don’t see much hope for those in my life and I don’t say that because of research, or education, but because of my experiences with them over the years. They don’t see that anything is wrong with them… period. The problem always, according to them, lies with ME. I am “too sensitive” to their comments. They were “only kidding”. Where is my sense of humor? I am expecting too much and don’t I understand that this is all they can give? How many times have I heard, “This is just the way I am!”… Even my mother used to tell me that “that is just the way your father is. He means well”… (this when he didn’t want to go to any graduations (H.S., college, post-graduate)…well, what about ME? Where do I fit in? What about the way I am? Does that matter to anyone? The message was always… NO… you really don’t matter much.
There has NEVER been any self reflection on the part of any of the N’s in my life. It has always been about the fact that others don’t understand THEM with no effort to understand others.
i feel for you, Tim, because you are unlike any other N that I have ever known, although some of your posts today sound alarmingly similar to them. I believe that it is in your heart to change, but your self-centered behavior is still very much a part of you and it permeates your thinking, which is understandable. It is the same with the rest of us as we try to re-program ourselves to be able to set appropriate boundaries and find people who can relate to us normally.
Personally, I am feeling that Tim was right in some of his comments towards me. I also am feeling that I have been more emotional than rational, projecting my own experiences and hurts into my opinions and talking in absolutes.
I hope Tim does not leave. I really did not know Kim. I do think her leaving was an over reaction but that makes no difference to my being insensitive.
We are all human beings, we are all God’s children.
Mary
I’m sorry, I really am…but…come on! She’s a narcissist! If she is so into getting the PhD why isn’t she working on her need to feel wonderful about herself even when lurking on a message board that is full of people who have been victimized by narcissists!
Hello?
It’s terribly narcissistic!
If I were a rapist I think I’d probably not be expecting flowers and welcome when I’m on a rape support message board.
Let it be a testament to the level of harm this disorder inflicts. And how incredibly difficult it is to change. And let us not feel sorry for her, she’s FINE.
All of you crazy people who i need so much that it’s all I’ve fuckin’ GOT:
I’m abandoning this thread. Come with me away from here now. That’s why they’re called “threads,” after all. If it goes off on some tangent, you’re free to find one that supports your growth and to not focus on the politics of belonging. We ALL belong, and I’ve learned so much from this that I’m feeling like the best thing for all of us to do is to:
remember what’s happened between us and
let it make us each count for MORE because we have each of us
been through this together.
My future posts will be informed by this defining moment…I need each of your perspectives so much that I would only add to my own illness and burden to not listen and be humble. That’s it. That’s all. i think we’ve lost someone significant, and I still think it should give us pause. Everytime we see someone return to the world and abandon us and our group it should be thought a loss. I for one am turning a leaf with Careplace. No more conflict. None of us is the same. And yet, we are all the same.
I want most of all not to be a bad example. I don’t want anyone who lurks here to get the wrong idea about all of us. I think about what each of you says in my personal life away from the computer (think Rachel and Tim at dinner tonight, Rachel listening to Tim’s version of it all) and it affects me. It HAS to. You’ve opened me, and even if I don’t like what I hear 100% of the time, I will not leave you now.
I apologize for distracting the bunch of us, but assure you that it was important to me or I would never have written it. You can believe me when I tell each of you that I’ll be diverting at least as much energy to a positive contribution as i have to this thread.
Let’s all remember how much we need each other — I being least among you. I need you all.
Tim
Oy. Are we your supply?! Dude! Can you stop being narcissistic for 5 minutes? Can you not use the narcissitic personality disorder group to get supply?
Puh-leaze!!!
If I had infinite insight in the true law and order of things, why things happen, what the reason is for each of our existence, I would be God. And I am not. I am so far from that and too far from him.
I really do not know why my path put before me such people. In my case he really was a best friend and a super person, but then there are such contradictions to that which I experienced which are next to being in hell. Noetheless, I joined on because he had a destiny that I became convinced he was to achieve. The joke of it all was that he did!!
First of all, we are all here for support and help and are all trying to get over someone with the same mental disorder that has screwed us all up and gotten us to the point of mental and emotional breakdown.
Tim, I think you are here, intentionally pushing our buttons, as a normal N would do. You twist everything that is said and point it all to how YOU are being misunderstood and you are trying to get better. I think we all can see what is really happening. I’m not going to get into it but I think that those of us that are hurting and have been beat down by other N’s know and can see and feel what you are getting from this site. Okay, fine, you need it and we’re suckers, here, hurting and distraught and beat up and needing help and support from other members that actually do care about each other. Fine. You have what you need.
No one here is looking for an argument, or a fight, or even wanting to get into an N “discussion” that goes nowhere. WE have all been beaten up enough and have had our self esteem beaten down to nothing and our emotional abuse maxed out. We are done.
No need to reply. We are here looking for help and support and understanding. WE NEED HELP to get through what others have done to us, that have damaged us, almost beyond repair!! WE NEED to be left with OUR kind to help each other and hold each other and be a true caring, loving and positive entity for each other.
NO ONE on this earth deserves to be abused, whether physical, emotional, spiritual or just because someone has this image in their mind that they are far superior than anyone else they come in contact with. That they have to be put on this pedestal and worshiped by “normal” people with feelings and love and caring and truly wanting happiness for BOTH partners in a relationship. No one alive should have to feel the pain and loss and hurt and deception and betrayal that we are all feeling because of N’s that have taken it upon themselves to feed their own egos and selfish needs from people that truly gave their lives to them and truly loved them and wanted to do everything in their power to make their partners feel happy and loved.
If you could live a day, or a week or even a month, in our shoes, you may be able to feel something you have never felt before. But of course, that would mean you would actually have to have a heart and have feelings and empathy. OH, that’s right you don’t know what that is…
Nevermind…
I just happened to have stumbled across this thread. I’m new to this forum and glad to be in a place where I can read and write about a relationship and personality type/disorder/tendency that threw my life into a place I never imagined I’d visit.
Tim, I want to relate a very brief, recent event in my life. I lost a friendship, not an old one, a blossoming one when she accused me of being codependent with someone else. I knew my motives in the situation we were discussing, I know what codependence is, my therapist has told me I’m not codependent but I didnt want to use that trump card in the discussion with my gf.
I merely said “its necessary that you believe what I say when I am talking about my experience of MYSELF”. She refused, claiming her knowledge of codependence made it extremely clear to her what I had been up to.
I was so frustrated in the heated hour long discussion (in a crowded restaurant to boot) to be told I was doing and wanting one thing, when the truth was completely different.
It ended up dissolving the friendship.
I imagine that those feelings I had then are similar to what you and DraKim experience when you’re both N’s wanting to understand, wanting to put solid ground under your feet, struggling to hold a space for survivors of N’s, when they dont appear to be holding the same space for you.
When a survivor (who isnt a N, and doesnt understand what its like to be one from the inside despite reading a popular book by a N) tells you theres no hope for a N to recover, or how awful N’s are and need contact to ber broken off immediately and permanently they miss you. They demonstrate their blindness to your humanity, they’ve thrown you into the scrap heap of sorts.
As a survivor of a N (or is he AS? who knows at this point) I can relate, I know what its like to be rendered invisible, and thrown out with the scrap.
In this experience at least, I get the frustration. I get it.
And you know what? Nothing brings out my own innate, natural human narcissistic tendencies than being hurt or rendered invisible. Thats why I also understand the survivors treating you, as their exN partners treated them, by telling you who you are and what mistakes youre making and what you can do to better treat them.
I hear you asking for a space to be held where you can be treated with the same respect as survivors. I get that. (nodding)
I hope since this thread was written in August you feel your place in this forum more soundly and relaxed because dammit, just in my own life, its so much nicer not to have to wear the armour, the shield or rattle the sword. I imagine it might be the same for all of us.