Elderly npd mother?

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

I am just finding out that I believe my 84 yr old mother may be NPD. My lifelong history in my relationship with her and her relationship with other siblings point very strongly to this. My siblings are thinking she has this as well. Most every one of the symptoms fit her. She lives with me and in brief talks with her medical Dr (whom she has had for approx. 30 yrs), he keeps saying probably dementia. I live with her and see very, very little evidence of such. I am taking her to a neurologist this week. I had to get her to agree in black and white to this and sign it in a family meeting and other expectations she must follow in order to live in our household.

I had to put it in writing because she has an amazing way of twisting, denying and manipulating what I say. The neurologist called and chatted with me for about 5 minutes or so and he hasn’t seen her yet but asked how old she was and quickly stated that sounds like dementia.

However due to me having to visit my medical dr (on a Sunday) several weeks ago, due to the stress and trama this situation has been causing me (felt like I was on the verge of a breakdown), I explained to my Dr some of the details. She took her time and listened and told me to have her checked out for dementia, but in the meantime treat it as attention/ reaction tactics from her.

She gave me some examples on how to handle her many tactics and told me to set boundaries, to be firm, calm and brief then walk away or if situation calls for it to just ignore and walk away. I had to go back for a check up 4 weeks later and told her that I was absolutely amazed at how the things she told me had made a huge difference and that I was beginning to feel like my own person for the first time in my life. She helped me far more than moms own drs. I think because of her age, they quickly want to think dementia. Much of my life I have never been able to please her, though I have and do go to great extremes.

I have spent my life feeling like I am at fault and questioning her behaviors like maybe I am just thinking so and so, etc. Maybe it is in my head. Now I know without a doubt it is not, and it has taken her living with me 24/7 to realize that my household is no longer normal since shortly after she moved in. She has always had dramatic situations for years and I have had to rescue her, the last of which brought her into my home. I am just really believing she has NPD, but don’t know how to go about getting her properly diagnosed.

She can be very uncooperative. I feel it is important that she gets a proper diagnosis, as she has told and is making some very, very untrue accusations to my siblings and others, even publicly. It is very devastating and heartbreaking. I love her, but realize that there is something mentally that prevents her from being able to function lovingly.

I am open for any suggestions, etc.

#2

I can see why doctors would start with a diagnosis of dementia. It some cases it can imitate NPD, and they tend to pick the most likely diagnosis and rule it out to they get to the real problem. NPD is going to evident from the persons childhood. My partners grandmother suffers from dementia and she has hallucinations and delusions, but it doesn’t really present itself like NPD. It was a more frustrating situation with my ex in that nobody wanted to recognize there was something serious involved like NPD… though it turned out NPD was involved it turned out to be even more complicated than that.

I’d be interested in knowing what techniques somebody taught you that made a difference in your situation. Dealing with difficult people can be quite a challenge and people could learn from experiences like those.

I do think its important for a person to get a proper diagnosis to get it treated properly, but its certainly difficult when someone is difficult. I found that with my ex, not focusing on the exact cause of her disorder was helpful. It wasn’t the label that was important or the cause of her behavior, but recognizing the behaviors individually. For example, she used to tell stories and lies about people to create conflict between people. It was easier for me to stop thinking about why or what made her behave this way, and to concentrate on that it wasn’t acceptable in my life and the things I could do to deal with it. No matter what diagnosis a person ends up getting, it doesn’t change that behavior is not acceptable, hurtful, or abusive. No matter what diagnosis my ex had, I was still in the same situation. There wasn’t much that could be done for her. Though, getting a doctor to agree with what I suspected was quite a relief and put to rest my doubts and wondering I had for a while.

Being a caretaker for these kinds of people is a challenge and admirable. I couldn’t imagine taking care of my mother on a daily basis… I’m not sure I’d be up to it. It sounds like your handling the situation very well.

#3

Thank you, wastedyouth. I do the best I can which is one day at a time. even in spite of this situation I still take care of her very well, I have just learned to set my boundaries while doing so and it seems she is beginning to treat me better.
My dr. told me that if indeed my mom is NPD, then every thing she does is for attention/reaction. To keep this in mind and always be prepared. If she starts a conversation that seems like picking for a reaction because of the way she controls through twists, diversion and manipulating it, dr. told me to not get caught up in it and simply walk away such as to my room or outside, or if I must speak to say I am not going to participate in conversing in this way and to walk away. Also she uses many non verbal methods for attention/reaction and dr. told me just to ignore those completely, and if it seemed to get under my skin to where I couldn’t, then just walk away. She told me to set boundaries. She told me it would get tough before it got better, because she would get more intense as I changed the way I dealt with the situation. In other words, she would become more intense to wear me down and I needed to be aware of that. It most certainly did get very tough, and once she learned the verbal manipulation didn’t work as well on me, the visual attention tactics became more regular so as to replace it. And then it would go back to verbal and so on. A constant game. I have also learned that she loves to catch me when my mind is preoccupied because I am busy with a task of some sort. Like preparing dinner for instance. She has found that is a perfect time to set her bait because I can’t always leave while cooking. I have took her bait on a few occassions and therefore she got the reaction she was seeking. I am becoming more aware of those times and trying harder to be on guard so as not to let that happen. If she has positive days, I have invited her to do this or that and I have found that results with her to soon afterwards start the attention/reaction ploys again. I am learning it is hard to be nice and try to have a normal mother-daughter relationship. I guess when she is positive and I soften up, it is like she realizes I have let my guard down. So that is what I am working on to be more aware of now that it has happened like three times. I also read on an internet site about using the hand as a stop sign. I have been using that in the last few days and even today and it works amazingly well. She started conversation today by asking a question. As I answer her question, she starts the usual twisting, diverting and then it leads another direction in which she states something and then denies it. At that point I put my hand up like a stop sign and held it there and she hushes. I then state that the conversation is being manipulated and I am not going to take part in it any longer. She turned and walked away. It is almost like when I put my hand up in that fashion that it stops her thinking of any thing to say, and therefore gives me enough time to make a statement she actually listens to.
The importance of her being properly diagnosed is the fact that she lives with me and makes extremely false accusations. If she is diagnosed with dementia it will be considered that she can’t possibly live on her own. If indeed it is NPD, she would be capable to live on her own. Doesn’t mean she wouldn’t still drive me crazy, but I would at least have my house to be my place of peace. She doesn’t qualify for medicaid, and I do not have the $ to be able to put with her income to place her in assited living. They have apartments for seniors here based on their income, so hopefully that may be a possibility. Regardless what is causing it, it is very difficult to live with these behaviors. It is hard for me to believe that it is dementia, for I have learned how to play her games and we have overcome some of them, but there are always new ones to replace them. Now that I have become AWARE of her behaviors, I realize it is some of the same I have dealt with her as far back in my life as I can remember. I just didn’t know that it wasn’t normal or wasn’t me. My mom has all my life shamed and guilted me. She has always had a perfect attitude. She has always been the type that you could know she did or said something and ask her about it and she would deny and get angry. The most minor things she does not and has never taken criticism very well. Gets very defensive. My dad was physically abusive and they were together for 52 yrs. I don’t know if that would have caused her to have NPD. I have very fond memories of her mom and dad (my grandparents). I don’t feel that it came from her childhood, unless the fact that they had 11 children and were a farming family, they worked from sunup to sundown. Maybe lack of quality attention…Who knows. I do know she has a couple of siblings that, now that I realize it, are very much like her and they drive their children crazy as well. Self centered, hard to please, dramatic and controversial as well and they have been all along.

#4

NPD starts in childhood and its not something that comes later in life. Usually its associated with abuse, but I’ve heard stories of people who have NPD who did not have abusive parents. NPD starts when somebody is very young and the personality is developing. Thats not to say an abusive partner later in life can’t mess you up pretty badly. I’m not a doctor or a psychologist though, but I think if she has NPD it would have developed at a young age. I think it can develop even from being spoiled, or neglect. I personally think genetics plays a factor, also. Some people seem to do everything right and end up with narcissistic children.

I’m recognizing now that I’m older thats there’s all sorts of dysfunction that runs throughout my family, though I don’t know what disorder to attribute it to. Dealing with parents is very different than going through an intimate relationship, and I haven’t worked out the problems I had with my parents. My father was very manipulative and controlling. By the time his health started failing he had treated us all so badly that we just couldn’t bring ourselves to be around him, even to help him or take responsibility for his health or living conditions.

My ex used to drive me batty too, and she did the reaction/attention type things you talk about. In my situation setting firm boundaries and sticking to them helped. Not reacting and walking alway was the most affective, but there were just so many times that she just wouldn’t allow me the freedom to leave the conflict.

Both my parents filled me with a lot of shame and guilt and I’m still dealing with it today. I didn’t realize until I hit my 30s that I didn’t actually have a normal childhood like those around me did.

And the false accusations? Thats what my ex did and it was very hurtful to me. It still drives me a little nuts today to think that people often bought into her lies. Its not fun to live your life watching your back and being on the defensive and having to repair your reputation. I’m sorry you have to deal with these kinds of things, but it sounds like you are doing a very good job =) I know it isn’t easy.