Everyone please read domestic violence

Some of my closest friends said I was turning into some type of zen monk, though I can’t claim perfection. I lost my head plenty of times, and probably drowned my issues in big piles of drugs. For the first time in my life I could finally hold a job, not because I wanted to be a better person or stop being a bum, but I so desperately did not want to be at home alone with her.

The stress of it all finally did overtake me, but I can ironically thank my mother for giving me the skills to put up with enormous amounts of bulls***. Thats another abusive woman in my life who I probably haven’t dealt with appropraitely, but those are feeling so deep down that I’m not even aware of them.

I suppose I"m unique that in some of the worst situations and I can just roll my eyes and be annoyed as opposed to being overcome with emotions I’m not really interested in partaking in. I suppose I should be thankful for it all because I did learn that under the most extreme of circumstances I have emotions and feelings just like everybody else. I am human, it just takes a lot to bring it out.

"I'm faced with responsibilty of "putting my girlfriend in her place" where any action I do is some form of abuse against a woman. Its a tough place to be in... and not something guys stand up and talk about. " ~WY

It's tough being a man with an abusive woman as his Beloved. Men are ridiculed by the rest of society if they cannot stand up to a 'skirt'. Assuming all men are oppressors and all women are their victims is preposterous, though plenty of people make this mistake without realizing how Powerless they are suggesting women to be. Nah...it's not so simple.

In the desire to help women free themselves from social conditioning that has encouraged subordination to male authority, we've gone to the extreme. Isn't that how change generally occurs though? From one end of the spectrum to the other before finally achieving balance?

Even in my little corner of the world, I've known men who lived with abusive partners and feared for their lives. There are few resources to help men in violent relationships...and few men who dare speak out considering public ignorance about Female Abuse. Usually, people snicker at his situation without considering the implications of his inability to defend himself.

Enough people write about N-mothers to remind us all that abuse is not gender-specific. Perhaps the form of the abuse differs but the impact is the much the same. I don't think there are as many differences between men and women as we pretend there are.

I've also read numerous accounts by men who were terrified of a BPD partner stalking, harrassing, threatening and tormenting them even after the relationship had ended. I hadn't thought about the female N (or BPD or XYZ) until reading TonyBrown's forum on MSN, 'Friends of Narcissists'.

CZBZ

 

wastedyouth,

I have a daughter and a son. I can see where the automatic assumption now makes the male responsible. She rarely ever is charged with assault, he almost always is. I have seen females lie about what happened to the police. My own daughter does not think her resorts to violence are inappropriate but the males resort to such is.

There are only a few studies on rape allegations. They show that 40-50% of those are false. Yet the male will almost always be convicted based on her word against his.

Studies are showing that white males are declining in school. By virtue of their sex, they are now the demonized minority that caused racial and sexual problems for all the rest. They have special study, special weeks for the females, the various ethnic groups, nothing for the male. Sad to me what kids have to grow up with today with projection of their parent’s and society’s problems onto them.

And we wonder why violence is worse and not better?

My ex was more than willing to tell people that a guy drugged and raped her, rather than admit or recognize her infedility. A woman with a disorder certainly can be the one wielding the power in a relationship. I don’t know that abuse being perpetrated by a woman is any different than a man. I always felt as a man, that people would take the womans side automatically. I’ve heard numerous accounts though of women suffering the same thing… which I find suprising… because my ex was able to convince anybody no matter what the situation.

I don’t know what would have happened it came down to my word against hers. I wasn’t taking any chances and I gathered evidence instead, and refused to be around her without witnesses.

I didn’t have to worry so much about physical abuse, being so much stronger than her. I didn’t have to worry about being punched and having my jaw broken. Having some threaten to sever your manhood in the middle of the night while you’re sleeping is enough to freak you out abit.

I did call the cops on her once, and sure enough, they did side with her. They told me I was the one who was acting crazy. Indeed I was, but I told them my emotional state was a natural reaction to the stress I had just been through.

There are female Ns and BPDs out there. I can’t tell you what my ex had because I don’t have enough experience to be able to tell the subtle differences between the disorders. It was in my best interest to assume she had them all.

It sucks to go through it all and then have to face the fact that you might have your own disorder. Everything you learned and gained about personality disorders is used against you… it becomes a different story. I have so much in common with some people around and have suffered through all the same experiences. But when you go looking for support you find that some people have theories than turn every personality disorder into some variant of NPD or psychopathy. I’m quite glad that there are people who speak up about issues because its something I need to understand the things I went through, and what I need to share and heal… just like everybody else. I’m also a very scientific person and prefer facts to theories and things proven by scientific method.

It can get even WORSE than that. I once had a West Indian lover. Now he had some serious problems and a history of violence (that nobody told me about until it erupted) well better yet, let me introduce you to him, from an article I wrote when he was still fresher in my memory in 2001, then scroll down for the punchline:


sometimes, male children as young as 5 are not allowed in shelters for abused women.

This is feminism gone insane.

Battered women don’t need protecting from men, they need protecting from abusers.

Male children need protecting from abusers just as much as anyone else.

Patrick was an eldest child.

He once had ambitions to be a photographer. He saved money every way he could and built himself a darkroom in a shed in the garden. When his father found out he burnt the shed to the ground. I don’t know if Patrick would have been a good photographer. He never took a photograph since that day.

I can never find it in my heart to condemn his father completely. He was a hardworking man with ambitions, ambitions for his 5 sons too, he was also totally illiterate. To him, the only way to succeed was to work hard with your hands. Everything else was a foolish fantasy and a road to heartbreak.

That he loved his 5, exceptionally intelligent, sons, I have no doubt. I’m fairly certain he was as intelligent as they were. Somewhere along the way his own frustration and despair became the basis of his philosophy of life. A philosophy of life he tried to impose upon his family, by force if necessary.

Where another father would have encouraged these bright and talented boys towards university, it was England, at the time University education was state funded, including a subsistence grant, he tried to force them, one after the other, into trade apprenticeship that would initially cost him money.

Patrick, the eldest, took the brunt.

When his father beat his mother he was constantly intervening. He felt he had to.

At the age of 12 his father kicked him out of the house for this intervention. Patrick slept in abandoned cars for a while, coming back to the house to eat when his father had gone to work. He kept trying, with his mother’s help, to go to school as often as he could.

His father took in a 15 year old cousin who was having troubles at home, while his own eldest son slept in cars as the price of protecting his mother.

Friends families took him in as often as they could. His educational learning pretty much stopped at that point. He could never read or write easily, though he was intelligent and extremely articulate.

I lay in bed with him, when we were both 26, and taught him to read, beyond the basics. He a beautiful speaking voice, it was a pleasure, as soon as he stopped insisting on learning from the driest and toughest of technical manuals. That strange mix of driven ambition and despair that was his father’s manifesting again in him. He learned very fast too.

When Patrick was 17 his mother finally escaped to a shelter.

They accepted all her sons, even the 16 year old, but not Patrick, who had lost his childhood and education for protecting her when no one else would.

Even so, he was very handsome, very charming, the women in the shelter sneaked him in as often as they could. Patrick became a very aware young man, one of the first of the “new men”. In spite of being left homeless and traumatised, first by his father, then by the shelter.

To his horror, when he got into a permanent relationship, Patrick also became violently, uncontrollably abusive in his own right.

He despised himself for it. He kept trying to find some way to control it.

He was a hard worker, like his father. He always had at least two jobs. Somewhere along the way he started to gamble, mostly on slot machines. So he would work harder to pay for it.

Patrick’s life was completely out of control by the time he was 26.

He was dead by the time he was 27.

He hardly ever went to night-clubs. (With all those jobs when did he have time?) But he did that night. I never heard all the details. There was some kind of fight. Patrick, and his temper, was dead at the end of it.

I had left England, and Patrick almost a year before.

I could still remember another time he went to the same club, he had to that night to see someone about a business matter. He came back in shock. A man had been stabbed. He was all right, just injured, but it was hours before Patrick stopped shaking, days before he got it out of his mind.

Strange, that was the way he died a few months later.

The ultimate scapegoat who was never given a chance to be anything else.


When the violence erupted, we were finished (after my father, and one diagnosed psychopath, in 1980, I do not do violence)…but he used to come back…now sorry but I couldn’t handle that alone, I HAD to call the cops…

Even so, I can’t help wondering if they would have sent a special patrol group van out EVERY time, within 10 minutes, if I had been black, or he had been white…

The only response they were prepared to give was “mob handed”.

Think on’t.

GD

That’s a sad story I’m glad you shared. My brother and I were the scapegoats in our family. It seemed all the anger and issues my parrents couldn’t work out were projected onto us.

I always identified with my brother, which is hard to explain. All his pain, and anger and rage, I identified with. I had all the same turmoil inside that he had. I’ll never really understand what made us different. I understood completely why he would lose control and go on his psychopathic rampages. Maybe what I don’t understand is why I didn’t.

I remember one of the few times as a kid I actually intervened. Despite all the talk that my brother was no good, I had no problems diffusing the situation. I sent my mother to her room and spoke less than a sentence or two to my brother. All he really needed at that moment was to feel understood. What usually would have ended with a call to the cops turned out to be a peaceful night. I suppose my brothers rage was directed more towards my parents than the rest of the world. But all his problems did leak out into the rest of his life, though he never expressed any of the rage towards me… cept maybe once.

I feel bad… a few years ago he sent me a letter from prison. He apologized for all his bad behavior, and apologized for single handedly destroying the entire family. I never wrote him back or talked about it, but it wasn’t his fault at all. No contact with an entire family is tough.

Its a shame… I remember my brother getting kicked out of the house. My father shoved him down the porch steps as he was leaving. He never really turned reached his full potential either.

Thanks for liking Pat…

That hands him back a couple of minutes of the life that was stolen from him far too soon…

He had SO much potential really, but a couple of words would never have stopped him, when he did start he would start to hate himself so much that ALL control would be gone.

Everything seemed to have stacked against him. There was no point in his life where you could say “if they had done this”…

…except when his mother went into that shelter…if someone had looked at Pat then and said:
“You POOR KID” and let him BE a kid, and be safe, for a few months I think it would have helped a lot.

Fact is that the world gave him EVERY reason to be furious.

Your brother doesn’t sound unlike him…none of Pat’s family would let him stay overnight, though they did socialise with him…usually just to get him into trouble…

His kid brothers all talked to him as if he was 5 years old.

If he had lived, I easily imagine finding out he was serving hard time somewhere, and still finding him the same, handsome, charming, courtly guys he always was…until he snapped again…
GD

wastedyouth,

The catch is the pathological lying and the projections. Sometimes there can be delusions too where the person really believes the stories they tell. When one is basically honest and the other has none of the moral compulsions that restrict them from lying, it is hard to win. It is like fighting a battle against a person who feels no fear when you feel all the normal human fears.

It has nothing to do with sex. Rather what I get from reading is that there is an absence of what they call “impulse controls”. These are processes within the brain that make us feel guilty when we lie, or tell us things like that is not true, you will destroy your relationship with someone if you tell such a lie to them or about them, or they will know you are lying and think you are crazy for saying that. Those processes just do not occur. For this reason, they can pass lie detector tests even.

I have a friend whose son married a BPD. This guy was so nice, super dad. He was an only child so his parents took her like she was their child too. Bought her stuff all the time, clothes, bought their house. Babysat all the time - super grandparents. She put false allegations on him. Cost him and his parents an ungodly amount in legal fees. She took it to his work place - I dont want to give details - but almost destroyed his career. I think the only reason that survived was because of who his father was. I’ve read that therapists do not like BPD patients because they are bad about making false allegations against them.

susiejo,

That sounds all too familiar to me. Often, I’d tell exactly what not to do or say to cause me to leave, and sure enough, its exactly what she’d do. The behaviors are very confusing. She did indeed believe her own lies, which is why she grew to despise me. From her perception, she actually did “never lie.” It was pathological lying at its most extreme. Though sometimes, she was knowingly creating some of these delusions to live in… all in an attempt not to face herself. At time I did get through the thick defenses. It changed from a battle of who was right and who was wrong into both of us realizing we had our own unique perception of the world… and fighting over whos delusion was real. In the end you could hear her saying, “Why do I think I’m right?” It was very sad to hear. But when I met her, she was very histronic. When I challenged her BPD like perceptions, she spent a year resembling NPD more than borderline. Either way, it was quite a ride. As her mom told me… she doesn’t like to talk about reality.

I wouldn’t be so quick to demonise BPD Susiejo,

As far as I can tell most people who have BPD have it BECAUSE of the truth of the allegations they are making.

Round about 1998 there was HUMUNGUOUS money in demonising BPD simply because the courts were starting to award damages for abuse with BPD as the evidence, as even relatively functional institutional care (on the strength of the cognitive dissonance caused by maintaining the the disparity between the sated and real natures of instutional care alone) can cause BPD a LOT of public money was at stake as well as private.

One of the people in the forefront of this was Randi Kreger, perhaps better known to some of her fans as soft core pornographer “Ophelia Rand”. Initially she turned the demonisation of BPD (and, by association, some very real victims of very real abuse) into a cottage industry, but the snowball rolled and, at least for a while she even wound up heavily involved in a richly funded foundation.

She joined up with some of the more aggressive and questionable “Father’s Rights” activists (the kind that will support ANYONE who pretends to believe them) too.

Sam tried to get on the same bandwagon but never quite made it, so he branched off on his own.

The upshot was that BPD became a tool that could be used as much AGAINST the good guys as for them.

False allegations are no part of the formal criteria for BPD. Some people with BPD may make them, but if so, just as many, or more, people with BPD go on living with abuse because their allegations are dismissed as false by very real abusers…and if they leave they will lose the children.

Sam seems to be trying to use NPD in a very similar way, but with, mercifully, less success.
GD

wastedyouth,

Mine got worse as he approached death. I could see the mental processes deteriorating, the lying was constant. The emotions were disappearing. When it ceased to be an issue about me, we were able to talk much closer. He honest to God could not see. He honest to God could not understand what had happened to him and how he had brought so much on himself. It was so sad.

We can beat our heads against the walls all we want, but a person with broken legs cannot walk. And a person with a broken brain cannot process and see things correctly. Sometimes it is worth remembering that it is but for the Grace of God go I. I would much rather be in my shoes than theirs.

blitzen,

That reminds of some very odd things about my past relationship. Its very hard to believe anything my ex ever said, because she lied so much. Something I put together though, was that my ex had a cycle of recreating the same situation over and over again. She would seduce guys, and invite them into bed with her. Then, she’d refuse them. She did this over and over, trying to create this event where the guy would have force themselves on her as if she was an unwilling participant… and she’d just be giving in. She was never able to find a guy who would go through the whole scenario. She started getting that way in the end with me. She literally wanted me to rape her. When I figured it out and confronted her about what she was doing, very weird and psychotic type behaviors would occur.

So anyways, I made some connections. This girls mantra throughout life was “nobody believes me.” Often, she’d make vague references to her childhood where people didn’t believe her, or that her mother would tell her things didn’t happen that did, or that she did things she didn’t do.

She seemed to be replaying the event out over and over in her life. I never could figure out what happened in her childhood that caused her mother to leave their father and drag them halfway across the country.

So, she lied constantly in her adult life complaining that nobody believed her when they should. Her goal is for everyone to notice, “see I was right all along and everybody should have believed me and never doubted me.”

I didn’t used to believe in a lot I heard about psychology… you know… recreating past traumas in your present life. But I wonder if this girl was raped as a child and forced to believe it didn’t happen. I would have thought it was all in my head… until one of the days she started splitting right before my eyes into a “I hate you” “have sex with me” persona… back and forth in a matter of seconds. It was frightening. There were even occasions of her not being able to control her body movements.

I was convinced I could help her make the connections… but that had horrible results. If I ever got her to think about the idea something happened to her in her childhhod, out came the razors and eye poking.

One of the reasons I ended the relationship was that it was becoming an impossibility for her hide from whatever emotions she had hidden. I only wanted to help, I didn’t know it’d make her go psychotic.

Anyways, yah, I think something bad happened to her and nobody believed her.

I can definately relate to watching all the lies get believed while you are dismissed and feeling:

Well F*CK YOU so…you LIKE LIES, you will GET LIES.

Maybe the ONLY reason I never tried to do that myself is because I am an Aspie and lying is so stressful that it isn’t worth it unless lives, or close, are at stake.

There is another reason too. When I ran away from home aged 13, the only way to avoid being picked up and sent back WAS to live a lie and create a whole new bio for myself…it was a horrible feeling…like not being real any more…never being able to be yourself 24/7.

(I was going to delete that last, but seeing as so many “wonderful compassionate” people have been using every trick in the book by PM to try to get personal details out of me so that they can use them to find ways to REALLY distress me…I think we have got up to “You are a psychopath because you won’t tell me your most private thoughts” right now…I figure: “What the hell, chuck them a bone to play with, won’t get 'em anywhere, but it will make 'em happy till they realise that” shrugs)

Thing is, it is one thing to be able to relate to why somebody is dysfunctional, and even see it as justified dysfunction (when it is caused by emotional trauma it usually is I find)…but it is quite another to be able to live with it.

That is why these things are so terribly sad, because whether biological or traumatic in origin the people who suffer them did not ASK to be that way, and are in no way to blame for it…in real terms many of them will never even get a shot at a real, happy life…whether or not they can heal, many will never get a chance

But no, most of the time you probably shouldn’t, or couldn’t afford to stay and you wouldn’t be doing any good of you did…

GD

I remember Randi Kreger. She did exactly the same as Sam, writing a book, peddling it on the internet, getting the forums going to sell it. A writer by education if I remember correctly. And she has really made some money? How interesting.

I haven’t read so much on BPD in a long time, not the type of people I associate with either so haven’t known any other than this friends son marrying one and life turning to hell.

What I am seeing though scanning through the research is tons more money being aimed at it than NPD. Seems that they have definite pegs on frontal lobe dysfunction, identified lobes involved but don’t see that as full extent of problem, likely metabolic issues at play also, and then some are still saying environmental (trauma) issues on top of the other two. I am skeptical of that and suspect it will likely be dropped in time, but maybe not.

My husband picked up a couple of magnets along his travels that the kids and I found somewhat bizarre.

One is a Thoreau quote:

"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you’ve imagined. "

Second author is unknown:

“Life isn’t about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself.”

How different minds work!!

What’s an Aspie, and what is stressful about lying?

blitzen npd-cpt6716@lists.careplace.com wrote: I am an Aspie and lying is so stressful

Rene


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The Weapon of Languagehttp://samvak.tripod.com/journal34.html

 

Uh oh, I think I might actually go read this one ;)

Dunno Susiejo…

Though there WAS this “Lelland Heller”/“All BPD is biological”/Patty Phelan (or whoever she is now) movement going on for a while, I think we can safely say that Patty Phelan was not so much biologically BPD as biologically stark raving bonkers, as were all the guys she married in the past 10 years.

The bio BPDs all seem to wind up re diagnosed as Bipolar.

I know a LOT about BPDs because (this is the FUN part) I originally MISDIAGNOSED myself with BPD as a direct result of reading AJ Mahari on her favorite topic, herself, in 1997, before she let us all in on the secret that she wasn’t really a BPD at all, she was an Aspie, and all her symptoms sounded like me…

(You see the danger of paying TOO MUCH ATTENTION to these online “My Disorder is Me” merchants, NOW???)

As far as I can tell the majority of Borderlines have a genuine history of serious emotional trauma with certain common factors…for instance they had all suffered trauma in circumstances where they were conditioned to deny reality and accept that it didn’t happen (even in cases where it was later proved beyond doubt that it did).

I reckon that is at the root of the “splitting”, massive cognitive dissonance over long periods of time, distorting socialization.

Many of them had been in institutional care or similar where every aspect of a child’s life is under a cloud of being TOLD that people care about you and want to help you, and knowing that, in real terms, they have to be so detached that even the best of 'em couldn’t care less whether you lived or died.

On the other hand, I have come across people where the problem was so transparently neurological that even in a minority the HAVE to be taken seriously.

WE really need to get the neurological disorders and the personality disorders properly separated and defined.

I think the resistance is in the core principle of clinical psychology that insists that we all have a fully functional self that just needs recovering.

That just isn’t true for everyone, as an Aspie, who’s mind often works in a totally alien way, I know that better than most.

Mercenary:

An Aspie is a person with Asperger syndrome, sort of like Rainman in drag, only different, and I am very pleased to hear that lying is not stressful to you.

GD

What does Asperger’s syndrome have to do with lying being stressful?

blitzen npd-cpt6716@lists.careplace.com wrote: I am very pleased to hear that lying is not stressful to you.

Rene


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Rene Said


What does Asperger’s syndrome have to do with lying being stressful?


Oh a REAL question, sorry about that, it was the LAST thing I expected from you.

Anyway…serious questions need serious answers.

For an Aspie, like me, interaction is, comparatively, like a night flight without instruments.

We can fly the plane as well as anyone, but we have no way to know our climb rate, our airspeed, weather conditions, what the nearest tower would like to share with us, and even trivia like just WHERE all that darn ground is.

We have to work it ALL out intellectually, that takes a LOT of energy, and is very stressful, because there is nothing to reassure us when we are getting it right or warn us when we are screwing up. We could be heading into mother earth at Mach I at any time and have no way of knowing it.

Under those circumstances, just sticking to the facts is exhausting and stressful enough without getting into the complexities of extemporization AS WELL.

Apart from that, we tend to think in a more simplistic, literal way that leaves us completely unable to relate to the reasons why most people lie.

Bluntly, most of the reasons why people lie would just make us feel EXTREMELY SILLY if we did it too. Doing something you feel extremely silly about IS stressful.

Does that answer you?
GD