im having problems with my ex husband & he has all the symptoms of NPD, he is making my life hell, how do i get help
Bup:
Great information!
Mariel lee
dawn,
sorry you had to find your way here, there are quite a few of us here that know about the hell you are speaking of and would be glad to help or support you in any way we can.
If you have any questions or want to share some of your story, I will help you in any way I can. I know about all the pain and suffering and a lot about the crazy making behavior not much about divorcing one, but other members can help you there. There are a lot of feelings involved, feel free to bitch, vent, cry, whatever you need to do, let it out.
Finding others that have had the same experience helps to validate your reality and your sanity and to recover from the experience. You are not alone, Hugs mamolie
When you say ex husband are you divorced?
Do you have kids and if so what age are they?
I have a 20 and 26 year old. My youngest is a
blessing,literally. No problems with her, she is going
to college and going into the nursing field. I often
tell people I only have one daughter, which in
essence, is all I have in body and spirit. The oldest
is beautiful, intelligent, but full of anger, anxiety
and depression and is very emotionally damaged and
immature. Her father enables her, and takes care of
her financially while she is attending a state
college, which is taking her almost six years to
complete. She keeps saying she almost has her BA, but
we never know what classes she has dropped or how
close she really is. If anyone has any advice on how
to convince her to seek help, I would be very
grateful. I have done everything in my power to help
her…perhaps she just has to hit bottom to realize
she has problems. The one thing that worries me is her
well-being, I often think I am going to get a call
thst something has happened to her…that is like
living a nightmare on a daily basis.
Pure hell…
HE has to stop enabling her… (your husband). I know we are all enabled at
times. But the sooner everyone is stopped being enabled, the better. I can
say that now at 39.
My brother has been enabled for 43 years!!! He can’t stop now. He feels
entitled to everything now and he won’t stop until he gets what he wants.
It is disturbing…I can’t imagine he has ever written a thank you note
in his entire life or been truly grateful for what he has been given.
You have to convince your husband that THIS IS IT!! Give her a date, and tell
her, the enabling ends on this dotted line…
From: Misha npd-cpt8444@lists.careplace.com
Date: 2008/04/06 Sun PM 04:07:23 CDT
To: averilsb@verizon.net
Subject: Re: [npd] ex husband
From Anna Valerious website: My dynamic within my family to a TEE:
They are Pagan, no doubt. Not an ounce of Christian Faith, or any type of
faith, purely selfish behavior:
The Pagan Priesthood of Appeasement
I want to examine a little further the narcissist appeaser otherwise
identified in my last post as “The Peacemaker”.
When last describing the ‘peacemaker’ I put it in a religious context by
identifying the N-appeaser as being a member of the Cult of Nice. This cult
has doctrines and faith. It punishes and proscribes ‘heretics’. The
’peacemaker’ himself is a self-appointed priest. His god is the narcissist.
The role of appeaser and so-called peacemaker is not a new phenomena. It has
been an important role in human societies for millennia. The lengths to which
a peacemaker/priest will go to appease an angry god was seen in multiplied and
ancient cultures and always appeared in a religious context. Cultures which
believed in a capricious, vengeful and angry god had elaborate rituals
designed to appease their pagan god. Up to and including human sacrifice.
There is mild argument about the prevalence of human sacrifice in ages past,
but there has been solid archaeological finds which demand we accede to the
truth of its existence in some ancient pagan societies. Not all human
sacrifice was associated with appeasing a pagan god, but there is proof that
some human sacrifice was for that specific purpose. Most times the appeasing
sacrifice was either babies, young children or teenagers. It was believed that
the purity, physical perfection and innocence of the young were the most
delicious kinds of gifts they could give to their gods. I can not help but
believe that the vulnerability and inability of the victims to defend
themselves also made children and young people attractive choices for their
violent bloodshed.
You may not agree, but I see the N-appeaser as a pagan to his core. I know
there are people who call proudly call themselves pagan in today’s western
societies and would take umbrage at my calling the N-appeaser a pagan like it
is a bad thing…well, too bad. It is a bad thing. Paganism is not and never
has been an elevating force in human societies. Just because some cultures
have achieved some recognizable levels of sophistication by our standards
doesn’t disprove that pagan religions have consistently been the locus of
moral vice and debauchery and have often led to the extinction of the cultures
that practiced the most immoral of rites. Especially those which engaged in
human sacrifice.
The narcissist-appeaser is afraid of his god. He quails at the narcissist’s
ability to bring down hellfire and thunderbolts on those who displease the
narcissist. His fear of the narcissist’s wrath is what leads the appeaser to
justify his assumed role of priest and his selection of sacrifices to his N-
god. He calls himself a ‘peacemaker’ which are the priestly vestments which
imbue his demands with spiritual and moral authority. Perhaps the fear that
motivates the appeaser is not so much the wrath of the narcissist, but the
fear of losing the convenience which a placated narcissist will afford him.
Regardless of which fear moves the appeaser, the children are usually the
first to go. Yes, the able-bodied man will be seen essentially throwing his
own children into the volcano to buy a limited peace (actually, a truce at
best) with his capricious god. The appeaser is, at the core of his soul, a
self-worshiper. It is his own comfort and convenience that inspires his
behavior and defines his principles. He has something in common with the
narcissist…a supremely selfish focus which puts what he wants as the
imperative for everyone else to follow.
Only in the most modern of times have humans separated out the religious from
what we call ‘secular’. The belief that there are areas of living which have
nothing to do with religious practice, principle or custom would be a
completely foreign belief to most of humanity for most of humanity’s
existence. I believe it is a mistake to look at the narcissist or his
appeasers completely divorced from a religious context. The narcissist
operates in the spiritual realm, i.e., what he or she does affects our spirit
(and his). It is this immaterial sphere of our psyches which the narcissist
uses as his playground. It is the very immaterial aspect of his behaviors
which perplex us the most and which hide his agenda so effectively. The
narcissist’s appeaser also operates in this spiritual realm. You can measure
this statement against what you feel in your spirit when the appeaser demands
you sacrifice yourself, your feelings, your principles, your best interest, to
the narcissist. Demoralized. Depressed. Dejected. Devalued.
My contention that the self-appointed N appeasers are nothing more than pagan
priests is of especial significance to Christians. When you are confronted by
an appeaser, when you are being mightily pressured by the self-righteous do-
gooder who is demanding you bend over for the narcissist, please, please
recognize the pagan before you.
What moral authority has the pagan over the Christian? He should have none. He
is worshiping a different god than you are. If you concede to the appeasement
demands of the narcissist’s priesthood then you have bowed down to their Baal.
True peacemakers will not sacrifice truth and moral principles for any cause.
Do not confuse appeasement with peace.
The pagans who would sacrifice their children to keep the volcano from blowing
or famines from occurring fooled themselves into believing they had achieved
peace. At some point the volcano would erupt or the rains wouldn’t come. These
events proving that they had, at best, appeased their gods for a time. In a
fit of unpredictable pique the gods unleashed their wrath and previous
sacrifices were revealed to be a limited truce at best. All acts of
appeasement toward a narcissist are limited truces. You can never placate a
narcissist except for a limited time. Because of the unprincipled and immoral
mental framework of a narcissist the appeasers learn to be very flexible.
Morally flexible. This is why the appeasers will eventually gut their own
integrity and morality if they persist in working for the narcissist. What
appeases the narcissist today may enrage him tomorrow–just like the ancient
pagan gods of the Incas, the Aztecs or the Druids. So the appeaser can’t keep
his job unless he moves the goalpost where ever the narcissist demands he put
it. Morality is a constant. You can’t reshape and re-frame morality to suit
individual tastes or else you’ll corrupt it.
The narcissist appeaser, the self-anointed and so-called peacemaker, is as
immoral as his master. He is a pagan priest who will gladly slice your throat
or rip your heart out of your chest if it will buy time, peace or prosperity
for himself. He is as demanding and capricious as his N god; he must in order
to thrive in the narcissist environment. Know it and plan accordingly.
Misha:
Try to have your daughter consider counseling. Be open and honest about her father, (in a way that she can take it all in without thinking you are just getting him back). Maybe consider going as a family. You sound like me, only I have two sons. The youngest, the same thing. The oldest, exactly the same as yours. But there have been gains made since he has gone to counseling. Everyday is a new day. I do see some changes ever so slowly.
Mariel lee
I have tried everything I am capable of trying to get
her to seek counseling. She refuses, completely. I am
so happy for you and son that he is seeking help. I
hope it get progressively better, which I am sure it
will in time. My hands are tied. Now I do not even
communicate with her at all. All she does is rage and
blame her father from keeping her from doing things
she wanted to do. Which is true to a very great
extent. I have told her to lower her expectations of
her father, and that he will NEVER change. I just
don’t know where to turn from here. Maybe I am being
selfish, but am now focusing on my life and
happiness, of which I am so deserving.
Misha:
Good for you. And the truth of the matter is that your daughter is indeed 26 years old. I had worries that my son had some of those N traits. I feared he had no empathy and at the very least both my sons have been given TOOOOOO much, if I knew then what I know now–and been given the chance to make up for all the mistakes. Anyway, you just pray and give it to God, he/she does listen. Days are much better, but always we keep trudging along. My feel is that I have to lead with the example, as my ex clearly did not. Hang in there!
Mariel Lee
To Dawn683:
Just keep reading, educating yourself, get the support from groups like this, seek counseling with an expert on personality disorders, and take your life back—they suck you dry! I learned a lot about where I came from and who I am. My therapist told me it may take one to two years to see things clearly, but when I do, I may not like what I see. It took me exactly three years. I hated what I saw, but when I saw it I was able (then) to put me first and NOT feel guilty.
Anytime you need support, we are here!
Mariel Lee
Mariel lee…
Believe me, I do pray everyday that somehow,
something will wake her up and make her realize she
needs counseling. Here is a letter I wrote to her via
email. I have yet had a response and do not even know
if she has read it. I am trying to communicate with
her and make her realize how much I love her. Keep me
informed of your sons progress…I am so happy for
you that each day is a step forward!
It is SO hard to be the child of a narcissist, regardless of what personality
type you are. The WORST part of it is that you can’t discuss WHAT THE REAL
PROBLEM IS. You live in a secret. If your daughter and son might have NPD,
they might be the ones that were abused MORE, ironically by being OVERVALUED
by the original N.
This is what I did in therapy: Perhaps you can share this information,
actually not pointing the finger that they indeed have NPD, but explaining
codependency… I didn’t REALLY KNOW I was a codependent until age 39, now
it is so clear to me that I was deeply intrenched in the protection
of the narcissists in my family…
Six Stages of Recovery
Recovery from these codependent symptoms also entails a six-stage process.
First, the individual needs to become aware, consciously aware, of the self-
defeating patterns of behavior or the things that are not working in their
life. They need to put a name on the things they do that prevent them from
getting what they want. These are the behaviors they are addicted or overly
attached to.
The second step is detachment. After identifying the negative, self-defeating
behaviors the person needs to stop acting out the behavior. They need to stop
reacting. They need to learn how to be still and calm the mind.
The third step is to change the behavior. Do something different. This will
break the personal and interpersonal patterns of self-defeating behavior that
occur when the thoughts and feelings that precede the self-defeating behavior
are realized and acted upon accordingly.
The fourth step is the social. As a result of the person changing their
behavior, all of the social systems they are involved in are changed systems.
The person needs to understand that this may cause conflicts but the change
and benefits are well worth the effort.
The above stages outline the processes necessary to repair the bio-psycho-
social damage caused by the development of a self-defeating personality style.
The fifth stage of recovery is the experience of psychospirtual
transformation. When the person got sober, they had a psychological
transformation but now a spiritual transformation is needed because the damage
to the personality was done when the personality was developing and their soul
was unfolding.
The sixth and final stage is continued growth and development. Maintaining
again the gains made and reaching greater levels of self-actualization.
We can see by this that one does not have to be an alcoholic or addict to
benefit from this model. A typical codependent could use the six stages of
recovery to look at themselves and use this as a frame of reference to
initiate change. Again, there are those who, even when they repair the damage
of their codependent personality or family of origin dysfunction, fail to
experience the psychospiritual transformation. They still do not feel happy,
joyous and free.
The reason the person fails to grow and develop at this point is due to the
unresolved traumatic experiences that resulted in the negative or false
beliefs discussed earlier. These issues are the PTSD problems that prevent the
person from experiencing high levels of self esteem. The person has
internalized toxic shame as a result of being violated or traumatized.
Now the person needs to understand a recovery process for these PTSD issues
identified earlier as the condition of addiction to false beliefs called
Pseudopsychic Dependence. The first of the six stage process of recovery is
acknowledgment. The person needs to acknowledge the extent of the pain and
suffering that was incurred. In other words, the individual has to identify
their victimhood.
If you are a victim or if you have been victimized and you are not aware of it
or do not recognize or acknowledge it, then you are going to continue to
suffer. You need to realize the extent of your suffering caused by the trauma
and/or abuse. Next, you need to reconstruct the history of the story of your
traumatic past. This is the second step. You objectify the victimization by
realizing that it continues to live in your imagination and you have been
subject to its negative effect. By acknowledging and reconstructing the story,
you are allowed to begin the process of objectifying the experience or
detaching from it. The reconstruction of the victimized history will allow you
to mourn or grieve which is the third phase of the recovery process. There
needs to be a period of mourning and grief work for the loss of innocence.
This is what happens to all victims – they lose their innocence.
The fourth phase is empowerment. As a result of the grief work, the person is
empowered. Now they can choose because they have their power back as a result
of resolving the past. They have detached from those negative attachments that
prevented forgiveness to occur and self esteem to emerge. This is freedom,
this is recovery and this is the goal of treatment.
Now, the fifth and sixth stages of full recovery occur. In the fifth phase,
there is a reconnection. The individual is reconnected to self, others, the
world or environment and God or the Universe. He or she has reached the sixth
level or phase of full recovery which is integration. The individual is in
full realization of Self.
Change is the key. This model is presented to help you begin by putting names
to the various problems. Having a solid understanding of the recovery process
we reviewed can help in figuring out how this model can be helpful. The idea
that there are three areas of relapse and a sober personal-ity structure based
on the reality principle is a good beginning. I invite you to begin the
journey of self exploration. If you discover that you have a problem in any of
the areas reviewed in this presentation, the good news is that treatment
works. There is recovery.•
Tim Sullivan is an Advanced Certified Relapse Prevention Specialist wh>From:
Misha npd-cpt8444@lists.careplace.com
Date: 2008/04/13 Sun AM 11:57:00 CDT
To: averilsb@verizon.net
Subject: Re: [npd] ex husband