Have you ever tried explaining to others what the heck your relationship with your N was about? I mean casually, not in detail - kind of in a synopsis? How do you do it without looking looney tunes yourself? I found myself Saturday sitting with a friend who asked about N, but didn’t know anything except that we were dating last year. I have to tell you, that was a feat - trying to explain, in a nutshell, the bottom line. I was wondering if anyone else has been in this position (and I’m guessing it’s most everyone) and what you said.
when explaining to others what my relationships were all about…i just said’lets just say it was like being with a spoiled teenager"in a nutshell…that is exactly how it felt
Thats a great question, Angizee. I would think also that all of us who have been through it would recognize the difficulty in explaining it and getting understanding.
I’m afraid I don’t have the answer though, as I did manage to make myself look loony toons myself. I don’t about others, but there was a point in the relationship where I figured it out and I was so stressed out, and so scared, and just such a mental wreck… that I probably looked crazy.
Even casually I’ve had a hard time. People who haven’t been through it just don’t seem capable of understanding. I’ve had people tell me flat out they thought I was lying, or that they don’t believe in psychological disorders. At the end of that N relationship, my mother practically yelled at me for talking about her in a negative tone and implying there was something wrong mentally… even though there wasn’t anything hate filled about what I shared.
I don’t know, its just too complicated for the average person. My current girlfriend gets it… she gets it completely. We’ve even gone on to recognize that someone in her family might also be suffering from it.
But for me, no matter how I try to explain it it rarely works out. I tell people my ex was crazy, and they respond by saying “all women are crazy.” Everybody thinks there ex is psycho. Really though, they have no idea.
What I tend to do nowadays if I choose to talk about it, is that she was mentally ill and literally had no conscience and got enjoyment out of making people feel bad. If I get anymore complicated than that… it just doesn’t work.
People have been referring to my ex as “bat shit crazy”," which works well at getting the point across.
This IS an interesting question.
I found this difficult to explain to DOCTORS and NURSES in the hospital a few weeks ago, let alone to friends.
And I agree with Wyouth when he refered to people thinking its everyone who thinks their ex is nuts, that gets in the way of them understanding or believing. That and its hard to imagine unless they actually know someone who is a N or S.
A friend at work who is getting her Masters in Social Work was the ONLY person in a casual discussion who understood. She actually finished my sentence for me “sounds like a personality disorder”.
I only talk about my ex as a N or S with my T’s or my closest friends. With everyone else I just say “he was emotionally abusive”. Most saw how I was in tears (no exaggeration) almost everyday for 7+ years, and they know what I’m like with my non-N exhusband so I’m sure they knew SOMETHING “off” was going on. Plus my exN/S cultivated his look and attitude his whole life, so he looks, even to a person passing him on the street, as an intimidating “evil” guy. That made it easier to believe I guess.
In the hospital I used the term “emotionally abusive” (although he was physically abusive at times too but I dont consider myself a “beaten wife”), and that it was punctuated with “I’m in therapy now for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder” painted a picture for them that I’m sure wasnt accurate in its details, but it was accurate psychologically for an important factor in my health history that they couldnt test for.
I have also said in casual discussions about it a few times in the last year, “I’m concerned I may sound like a woman scorned, and I’m not sure I have the proper words to describe things without sounding like a melodrama, but all I can say is it’s good that I’m out now. I’m safer.”
At work I gave a very succinct document for my boss to keep in my file, along with a brief explanation “It turned out to be a difficult split, and this hopefully won’t ever become an issue, but I want you to be informed just in case something weird or bad happens.” That implies something vague but important about my exN’s character and way of operating.
We did have one friend in common, however, who still doesnt get it, and so I dont trust her. I’ve explained it to her a few times and at first she didnt take me seriously. Afterwards I told her how upset it makes me to hear about him, and that I felt “at risk” having a friend of his, as a friend of mine - to which she got upset accusing me of projection. Thats when I knew for certain she didnt get it. I hadnt told her the numerous things he had done, not just to me, but his own family, strangers on the street, relatives of his friends, even animals etc. Those are all things I cant afford for him to know I’ve spoken about.
SO in having to accept what I say about him in general terms and the effects it had on me, her patronizing response let me know, she STILL doesnt get it. In the end her friendship isnt important enough for me to tell my secrets in order to win.
I suppose that brings me to my point, that who we tell, and how much we tell needs to be a careful decision. It took me years before I had the nerve to share those secrets with my T.
Those who arent our closest confidantes dont need to know so the most succinct way to tell them is the best IMO. And sometimes even those who love us the most (like my elderly mom) sometimes are better off not knowing (I’d be afraid she’d be so upset she’d have another heart attack).
And some who saw it happen, like my son, who dont have the right words for it, end up having the right words for it (“the mean guy who hurt your feelings everyday”).
I am still with my N husband. I probably have discussed it here on this forum more than I have with my friends. I have a wonderful support system of friends and I know exactly what they would say if I told them the full extent of my marriage. I don’t because I don’t want to tarnish their opinion of him and I don’t want pressure from them to leave him. I wouldn’t blame them…I’m sure I would tell them the same thing if they put up with what I do. So, I say that he has very serious issues with his behavior and his interpretation of day to day life due to not being nurtured properly as a child. I think that pretty much suffices. I have learned so much from this forum and I’m much better equipped to deal with his issues and my reactions to his behavior. He has acknowledged that he is “different” and he does try really hard. Now that I know how to handle him a little better I don’t “feed” his bad behavior…and I don’t take a lot of it personally…which is key.
Mae
this would be more appropriate in a thread of its own, but as you know I continue to watch and hope for SMG who has been struggling for a year (or maybe more), and who continues to struggle. It seems very hard and difficult work even when his disorder isnt that bad and she’s better equipped than most at understanding it.
I’d be interested in hearing how you learned to understand your husband and how to “handle him”. How long it took for you to grieve the loss of who you thought he was, how long it took for the information and strategies to sink in, how you came to protect yourself.
Angie, I am a complete newbie to this, but I truly understand you. Whether in casual or intimate conversations, I find myself wondering what others start to think about me. My marriage was not normal but like walking through a house of mirrors reflecting distortions but not really knowing how to get out. I knew I had to keep walking and one day I found the exit!
I agree with Phoenix, I found it easier to reference “emotional abuse” and yes, unfortunately after seeing the looks of confusion as to why I would stay with him, use the “battered wife” syndrome.
That’s when it all gets wierd no matter what, and I just don’t want to talk about it. I feel so ashamed that I could allow myself to stay along with my daughters with this person for 14 long years. My issues, I know…
He is also paranoid and I am the continued fixation/obssession of his paranoia(after 5 years, he refuses to let go…)
My closest friends fear that one day he will go over the edge, I just can’t allow myself to think about it, I WILL go on with my life.
I think its the “walk a mile in my shoes” thing, noone will ever fully comprehend this. Just my opinion…
I agree.
I didnt understand “battered wife syndrome” or trauma bonding myself, thinking there must be low self esteem at work, or an addiction or weakness of some sort.
And then on top of it, it took my T over a year before I stopped chastising myself and believing the problem really wasnt with me at all, that I did most things right, but I certainly didnt do anything wrong.
And now I get it so well because I lived through it.
Even so, in trying to explain things casually, I can hear how others m ight be hearing me, I havent forgotten how I used to think about battered wives myself.
In that way, we have more compassion and empathy than we did before I think.
I am so glad someone asked this question, I know I have said the same thing to my daughter a few times. The story is so wierd and so bizare, that no one would understand…We still have a hard time believing it, so how are you going to explain it for others to understand. My daughter said she would just tell people that she didn’t want to talk about him. That seems to be the best response she could give. Besides to people that are not important to her what they think really isn’t that important. People that know us and have been a big part of our lives will know that we are not the crazy ones because we are still around and he is gone.
It is very hard sometimes to make others understand. They don’t have to live our lives we do and we have to deal with whatever happens here on out, the people that want to make assumations or judge us really don’t matter.
not read all posts but in direct response to the questions.
yes
yes
and…
you dont
xx
I have been married to an N for many years, and although he has matured and improved somewhat, he still holds the major N characteristics. His verbal abuse has mellowed and his impulsiveness has improved, but he still lacks a great deal of empathy and the normal responses to situations that you would expect from someone are off - confusing.
For example, his need for admiration is too great, especially from other females. When he talks to a good looking female, he never stops. He doesn’t think he’s flirting but he will talk for 45 minutes straight while the other person might just be shaking her head in response. I know that as a child and teen he experienced a great deal of shame because of his alcoholic father and was looked down upon by many people. Is he trying to fill some kind of emptiness that will never be filled? Can I trust him when he says he’s not flirting? Is this normal for most men? I think I am headed for some kind of mental disorder myself because in the past I was able to busy myself with my work and simply ignore his worst immaturity. Now the past is crashing down and I seem to be angry all the time. What can I do? Does anyone have any coping skills I can use to get through this anger? Basically, he has good morals and has a good heart, but there are so many inconsistent patterns.
i can only say from my own experience…that the bottled up anger made me ill.
I personally batted it back at mine…but this was hard work,(although it seemed to work)…the downside of this was that it was almost what they wanted…but everyone is different Ns as well…i found it very hard to’ignore"their behaviour,although im sure this is the best resopnse(no response)
I hope I didn’t go too far away from the topic here. As far as explaining to others - I find it next to impossible. Unless you are living it, or have lived with it, not too many people would understand the insanity of having a relationship with a narcissist. I am not sure many therapists get it either unless they have grown up with an N or had a relationship with one.
Even explaining to friends is sometimes a stretch. I have a couple of friends that listen but I have to stick to the facts and leave the emotional trauma out. I have the tendency to freeze when I think about the emotional trauma - 27 vehicles bought in seven years, six ball teams a summer, ruining Christmas every year, getting sick every time we go on a vacation but feeling great when he can be the center of attention with others.
I appreciate this place because I know that all reading this understands the problems involved.
i found that mine were "outside angels…inside devils"so others would never believe what I said.
it was sickening the way they treated me well in front of others…to dissuade me from blowing thier cover,so to speak,and moresow,to make me look a liar if i told the truth
Woah Kstrat,
“27 vehicles bought in seven years, six ball teams a summer, ruining Christmas every year, getting sick every time we go on a vacation but feeling great when he can be the center of attention with others.”
This really freaked me out. I thought for sure you were descirbing my NH exactly.
We are not well off and we too have owned 6 cars in the 2 years we’ve been together and during that time he’s put at least an additional $25,000 in modifications and improvements into those cars all in the name of making them “the best” “the nicest” “the fastest” and (the newest and current endeavor) "the loudest"
That is our entire expendable income and he maxed his credit card out for it too. It all seems so vain and pointless to me. I’ve had to completely change my lifestyle since I met him since I have to bail him out so often.
He too ruins every single holiday. He gets mad that it isn’t all about him. He especially builds up anniversaries and birthdays so that I’ll get excited and then once the day comes and he ruins it, it’s a double blow. By ruin it I don’t just mean forgetting it, I mean an all out battle, verbal bombardment…
All in all, I know what you are feeling and going through. It seems they are so similar.
annabanana and others is similar situations:
Someone should be able to help us - especially in your case. Your relationship is not as old as mine and you still have time to fix it or flee. Actually, my advice to you is to flee if you have the opportunity. I had no support person or group in my life, so it seemed impossible for me to do anything else but stay and cope. I would not wish that on anyone else. Living with an N sort of takes away the confidence that’s needed change our situation. A support person in my life would have really helped.
I feel strongly that the word narcissist does not help to explain the situation of NPD. It implies self love, and that, is absolutely not the issue, is is merely a scratch at the surface.
I think it completely undermines an affliciton that ruins lives.
I agree Nic, the terminology that was chosen for lots of this disorders doesn’t make all that much sense and adds to confusion. The narcissism seems more like a symptom while the real issue is much more complicated and deep down, its the opposite thats driving it all.
I think that identifying my exes problem was even delayed by the label because I did recognize that there was all this self loathing and unworthiness at the core.
Anyways, I pity them which they probably don’t appreciate.
The word does muddle things up a bit when explaining to others because our society does blur the line between healthy "narcissism’ and pathological narcissism. As we here know, there are a world of differences between the two, like the others have said, it is very difficult if not impossible to comprehend without living through it.
I read an excerpt of an article about narcissism from Oprah magazine that descirbed people’s constant inward struggle to better themselves being the derivative of healthy narcissism- or more appropriately called self esteem. While pathological narcissists walk around completely miserable, relying entirely on outside praise and power to give them their “self-esteem” all the while being in complete denial of their ability to err, thus not willing to work on themselves and truly having no inward source of self-esteem.
This still doesn’t touch on just how evil this disease it though, and still shows only the misery of the N and not the inevitable misery of every person the N comes in contact with.