Hope…
Please take care of yourself as your therapist adivses. I mean really take care of yourself. This is the most important thing…and the hardest thing of all to do! I would go out on a limb to say learning to take care of yourself is the ultimate lesson to be learned in any/all of your relationships. In the end, It’s not about narcissism, in the end, it’s about taking care of ourselves. This preoccupation with others…this is OUR DRUG!!! This is our wound to heal.
My father was very narcissistic…he visited me when he wanted to, when it was convenient for him. I spent my childhood covering up how painful it ws to be an afterthougt and working hard to be “the good sport” AND MAKING IT OKAY FOR HIM SOTHAT HE DIDN’T HAVE TO FEEL BAD OR TAKE ANY RESPONSBILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS. There is no big mystery any longer to me about why I am in this realtionship w/ my bf.
Also, I never never never did anything to MAKE my bf admit he was narcissitic or acknowledge he acts narcissitically or even to make him go to therapy…HE WANTED TO, HE WANTED TO LONG BEFORE HE EVER MET ME. During therapy it became quite evident that his mother is very mentally ill, very naricisstic. His father even attended one session w/ him and admitted after the first year of marriage to his mother, he serisously considered blowing his brains out w/ the pistol that he kept in his desk. He did not do it, but it was seriously considered. Growning up with a narcissist, my bf has had to look at the behavior that was modeled for him, how he was treated by his mother, and how in turn he treats others. It’s not a conscious decision like “I’m gong to get up today and see how many people I can confuse, disappoint and royally piss-off.” It’s NOT LIKE THAT. It’s more like the family that always cut the ends off the easter ham…finally someone asks why they do that and a great great grandmother explains her roasting pan was too small so that is why she cut the ends off the ham. Everyone elses pan is plenty big so the need is no longer there, but they go on doing becasue it just seems the NORMAL thing to do. There is little, if any, malice of forethought on his part. He is emotionally stunted—he sees this. He goes into black & white thinking and splitting the way a child would when he feels anxious or scared or threatened. Adults are a mystery to him; he could never figure out why everyone was always so pissed off with him; now, he thinks of it in terms of how his mother made him feel, and he sees the connection. His mother could make him, even as a child, want to blow his brains out in frustration and hurt. He now see’s that same look of frustration on MY face when he gets into his stubborn mode…and he sees the connection. Shame is a big part of it. It was NOT safe to make a mistake in his house. So, when I say, honey, that hurts! His reaction is to defend his actions or point a finger to say I should not feel that way…he won’t just apologize the way someone else would, sad that they have done something to hurt another…NO, that would mean death in his home…and no one ever apologized for hurting him in house!!! This is what he grew up with, this is all he knew.
I have never MADE him look at any of this or realize any of this. He has done this on his own and of his own accord. Do I think it’s real. Yes. Does that mean we can be together always and live happily ever after? I have no idea; I’m taking it day by day. The only thing I have EVER done that may have been different from any woman or person he has been with is make it clear what my limits are and to hold to those limits… and then be willing to kick his ass out the door when or if he trampled those limits. Sometimes it’s not even about judging if what he does is wrong or right…I will simply say “okay, so you’re confused about your feelings for me. You loved me last week, but not this week. That’s your honest feelings. I need to let you know that is not working for me. I honestly cannot be in a relationship with you if you are going to keep vacillating in your feelings for me back and forth, becasue that is too painful for me. So, please go do that somewhere else, maybe another woman will not mind that kind of thing…but I DO mind it, and I can’t live this way, so please go, and I wish you all the best.” In the beginning if I got raged at or ridiculed by him for letting my needs be known, I would walk to the door, open it, and tell him he has to leave if he cannot refrain from ridiculing me or screaming at me. I have opened the door for him many times, and in the begining, he would walk out, or run out, quite often. I would cry and greive. But I lived, I can live without him, and I survived. He always came back, maybe in a day, maybe in a week, but he always came back. Then I would have another decision to make. MY DECSISION.
Hope, my bf early on did something similar to me that you mentioned your bf did…make love to you one minute and then the very next he’s talking about seeing other people blah blah blah…the night that happened w/ my bf was probably the worst thing I have ever been through emotionally with a man. He had said I am safe with him while making love to me, then 10 mintues later when done having sex, he explained we should see less of eachother and that he didn’t know if he loved me or if he had ever loved me. Do you know the one thing that let me live through that and keep my sanity? IF HE HAD BEEN A NORMAL MAN DOING THE SAME THING…HE WOULD HAVE BEEN SAYING THOSE THINGS AS HE WAS RUNNING OUT MY DOOR IN ANTICIPATION OF MY THROWING LARGE OBJECTS AT HIM. MY BF SAID THESE THINGS CASUALLY, LIKE WE WERE DISCUSSING THE WHEATHER…AS HE CONTINUED TO BRUSH HIS TEETH AND THEN CRAWL INTO MY BED AS I STOOD THERE WITH MY MOUTH OPEN IN SHOCK… I KNEW SOMETHING WAS “WRONG” WITH HIS THINKING…BECAUSE ANY NORMAL MAN WOULD BE ANTICIPATING A WOMAN’S RAGE AT SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES AND WOULD BE PREPARING FOR THE ONSLUGHT…HE HAD NOT A CLUE. I’M NOT SAYING IT MADE IT EASEIR OR IT MADE WHAT HE DID RIGHT…I’M SAYING I COULD SEE THAT HE WAS NOT “OPERATING” IN A TRADITIONAL, NORMAL MODE. SOMETHING WAS BROKEN. HE WAS TRULY CLUELESS WHEN HE DID THAT, SO CLUELESS, THAT IT DIDN’T EVEN OCCUR TO HIM THAT I MIGHT BE MAD OR ENRAGED FOR HIM TO DO THIS…That’s the thing, I can see the broken “thought processes”; ANY NORMAL MAN WOULD HAVE BEEN DUCKING OR RUNNING OUT THE DOOR, OR WOULD NOT HAVE SAID THAT UNTIL SAFELY FAR AWAY AND ON THE PHONE… that is why I ultimately do NOT take A LOT OF HIS STUFF personally, but I still have to assess even as he improves if I can get enough of MY own needs met to make this work. I do not think he would do the same thing today as he did then; but, he is struggling to learn what empathy is and when/how to show it. Studies show that most men, as compared to women, are NOT as good at empathy. It does not come AS natural to most men as it does most women. Take a N man, and you have almost no empathy at all, or a complete absence. I am working toward a time, hopefully, when my bf will have perhaps have ‘about average’ empathy for a man…such that I’m dealing with the frustrations that could come up between any average man and woman. There ARE No perfect relationships…but when you are dealing w/ a person w/ narcisstic traits, and if they are shut down completely, it will provoke craziness and will be impossible for most humans to get their emotional needs met w/ that person.
I have raged at my bf a couple of times in my anger and frustration as a result of HIS behavior.
But it’s still comes down to ME being responsible to ME. I am in charge of who I make love to, hang around with, fall in love with, invest my fianances and energy with. N’s can be seductive, especially in the begining so I understand the feeling of being dupped. But once the facade is down and the true colors come shinning through…it’s all about MY life and MY choices and what I WANT TO DO ABOUT IT. I have to be honest, there is a part of me, the little girl who could not get her narcisstic daddy to pay attentin to her…that doens’t want to give up on making this one work and does’t want to give up on all the goodies I get by being with him (there is good stuff, too). That’s okay…AS LONG AS I AM AWARE OF THAT AND REALIZE I AM MAKING CONSCIOUS DECISIONS EVERY DAY ABOUT WHAT I WANT, WHAT I CAN AND CANNOT TOLERATE AND WHO I SPEND MY TIME WITH. When I let him in for another round, that is MY decision. No one can MAKE ME BE WITH HIM, MAKE ME HAPPY, MAKE ME WHOLE, MAKE ME FEEL LOVEABLE, OR MEET ALL MY NEEDS. That is MY responsbility.
AND, I cannot take ANY credit for any progress my bf has made. He has faced some terrible terrible demons; and he still has a long way to go. it’s not becasue I LOVED HIM OH SO MUCH OR WAS THE PERFECT MATE FOR HIM…it’s becasue he is willing to do the free fall and to trust me and his counselor. Some have been too damaged; they will never reach that level of trust. I do not think my bf was sexually abused, although he was hit and whipped a lot. If he had, if it had been worse, perhaps he would be firmly entrenched in his narcissitic denfenses. Perhpas that is what keeps these people alive? They still keep reaching out for human contact…I know it’s called narcisstic supply, but it’s still reaching out for human contact. That IS HUMAN!!! It’s not like they are reaching out to be with corpses or plastic blow up dolls, they are clinging to humans to keep them alive. THAT IS HUMAN. THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF BEING HUMAN!!! What these people do sometimes FEELs evil or monstrous, I will grant you that. But I don’t belive they are monsters, I beleive thay are broken humans. When my daughter was 6; one minutes she would be cuddling in my lap, cooing and telling me how much she loved me. If I had to set boundaries with her or discipline her (you can’t have any more candy) she would just as quicky turn her back to me, stomp her foot, and scream she didn’t love me anymore. Twenty minutes later, she would be back in my lap telling me she loved me. Was she a monster? Was he evil? NO…she was a child. Did I take it personally? No, becasue she was a child, and that is how a child acts and behaves until they reach the next level of maturity. The way these people act, emotionally, it feels monstrous becasue it makes no sense coming from a physically, intellectually grown person…but they are NOT GROWN UP. REMEMBER THAT; THEY ARE NOT GROWN UP. THEY LOOK GROWN UP, BUT THEY ARE NOT. IT’S NOT AN EXCUSE, IT’S A FACT. IF THAT BEHAVIOR IS TOO DISTRESSING FOR YOU COMING FROM AN ADULT (AND FOR MOST, IT IS TOO DISTRESSING BECASUE WE HAVE ADULT NEEDS) THEN YOU MUST BE THE ADULT AND TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF HOWEVER YOU DEFINE THAT…AND NOT BE EXPECTING A 6 YEAR OLD TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO TREAT YOU. Having said that, It’s not necessary to stay in a place of compassion if you need the strength to get away from an abusive relationship. GET ANGRY, DEMONZIE THEM, BE OUTRAGED AT WHAT WE HAVE EXPEREINCED. Do whatever is necessary if you feel you need to get out of something that ONLY LEADS to heartache and NOT getting your needs met. If we keep picking N people to be in our lives or we keep going back to people who make it clear they cannot meet our needs…THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT…AND THAT IS OUR WORK TO DO. EVEN IF THEY WERE HEALTHY, IT WOULD NOT BE THEIR WORK TO DO…AS IT IS, IT’S LIKE ASKING OR EXPECTING A 6 YEAR OLD TO BEHAVE AND LOVE YOU LIKE A 35 YEAR OLD WOULD. I CANNOT BE ANY MORE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS. IT IS OUR WORK TO LEARN WHAT OUR WOUNDS ARE THAT WE ARE COMPELLED TO LOVE AND TRY TO FIX SUCH DAMAGED PEOPLE. IT’S NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM TO NOTICE A PATTERN AND TO TAKE FULL RESPONSBILITY FOR OUR OWN CHOICES, BAD OR GOOD, HAPPY OR SAD. NO MAN, NO LOVER CAN SET US FREE OR MAKE US WHOLE, WE CAN ONLY DO THAT FOR OURSELVES. IT’S NOT SEXY, IT’S NOT HIP, IT’S NOT AS DRAMATIC AS THE MAGICAL THINKING THAT WE WILL LOVE SOMEONE SO MUCH THAT THEY WILL MAGICALLY GET BETTER AND LOVE US BACK “HOLLYWOOD STYLE”, AND IT’S NOT NEARLY AS SATISFYING AT TURNING ALL OUR ANGER AND SADNESS ONTO A BROKEN PERSON WHO HAS DEMONSTRATED TO US THAT THEY CAN NOT GIVE US WHAT WE SAY WE WANT. I know one other thing for sure…i had a lot of anger and sadness in me LONG before i met my bf…you wouldn’t know it to look at me…I am successful, very attractive, athletic, in great shape, smart, educated. It doens’t matter, the anger and the sadness is there. That is for me to explore; my bf can’t make that magically go away anymore than I can magically make him better. Next month, perhaps he will have a relapse and all the worst of the old behaviors will come back. And if that happens, it doens’t mean i didn’t not love him enough or the right way or that I didnt sacrafice enough or try hard enough. I can’t take credit for his healing anymore than I can take credit for his woundedness. In the end, there’s only one thing I can do and that is take care of myself. I am with this man, right now, because I chose to be with this man. He did not jump out of the bushes and abduct me. This is the reality I have chosen to live at present. And yes, I believe they do hurt. Since they lack empathy, maybe they don’t hurt for ‘us’ they way we like them to, the way that is normal…maybe they only hurt badly to know they have been “caught” or that they have yet again done something wrong…and that feels painful to them. It’s still pain.
And I repeat…you cannot MAKE anyone seek healing. It’s impossible. You can only work to heal yourself. If a person in your life is on that path already, or chooses to get on the path…that is a blessing. But there is nothing anyone can do to MAKE them DO ANYTHING.
Mamolie, you asked about personality disorders…I just began my masters program earlier this month in psych…have not ‘studied’ pd’s thorugh this program yet…but have read a lot about it…I was most familiar with the concept of borderline personality disorder. I read one or two articles over the years re: npd…but didn’t really identify with it so didn’t search out much info. I had a girlfreind that was diagnosed borderline pd, so about ten years ago I started reading a lot about that. In a nutshell, it always seems like what you have are personality disorders…the women lean toward borderline pd, the men lean toward narcissistic pd. But as I said, it was not until after meeting my bf…and a letter he wrote about the 2d month in where he said something about based on his counseling ‘he promises to be aware of narcissism in his life’ as well as hearing his counselor ID his mom as narcissistic. I started running searches then and buying books. I’ve listed all the books I have read on my profile page in case anyone wants to look at that for reference. I geuss one of the reasone why npd is ‘new’ is that in the past, when a man was verbally, emotially, or physically abusive…that was what it was called. Abusive. It didn’t get a name like NPD…it was just considered ‘abuse’. Got to go but will try to write more later…