How was he/she created?

It’s my firm belief that my husbands’ N was created by the constant belittling and neglect of his mother. She repeatedly beat him as well as his older brother with a wooden spoon - when they did things wrong. She is very snide, sarcastic and very curt. (even to this day – she’s obviously a Malignant N).

During one attempt at bonding with my new M-inlaw, I recieved an email back insulting my two children and giving me her quick solutions to the problems that she saw. (which, were not issues at all in reality.) For instance, my son, who was 13 mos old at the time - she remarked, “He’s too clingy, just ignore him for about a month and he’ll quit asking to be picked up so much.” That there gave me a great insight to the way my husband was raised! This is the same person who insulted me for breastfeeding my children, said that she was feeding her children cereal at 2-3 mos old and I should do the same.

His father was a crap roll model also. Never dealing with issues of the family - that was her job alone. (which explains why I’m so stressed with all the issues that are “mine” to deal with in my marriage and family.

What is his brother like, is he an N? How is it that some children grow up in very abusive homes and do not develope NPD?

 It is all speculation,no one really knows for sure what causes NPD. The nature>nurture debate will go on, they use to say cold mothers were the cause of autisism and schizophrenia, we now know that is not true.

I am sure nurturing plays a role, but how do we explain the ones who do not develope NPD?Too little is known about the brain and causes of mental illnesses. Hopefully some day they will know the causes and be able to fix or cure them.

                                       Hugs mamolie

Mamolie

I dont know how they are created either. I know how I was changed by being with a N/S for a mere 7 years
and as an adult
and in a romantic, not child/parent relationship where my personality and character were already formed.

They were the worst years of my life
and I went through violent anger as a stage
and am now in couldnt-care-less-about-most-people
emotionally-flat
very-low-on-the-empathy-tolerance-and-patience-levels stage

and I’m NOT a N!

I CANT IMAGINE what being the child of a N does to an innocent, dependent little psyche.

On the other hand my exN/S’s mother was physically and emotionally abusive to him, and as I witnessed myself is narcissistic so who knows, it could very well be genetic?

In the end though it doesnt matter how…anything about THEM doesnt matter much to me thats for sure,

the only thing that becomes important to me is
surviving, recovering and keeping myself safe from future N-abuse
and just as important
making sure my son doesnt have to suffer from any himself,
or witnessing anymore of me being abused either.

The surviving I did,
the keeping myself and my son safe I think is going to be easy (particularly since right now I’m intimacy phobic and just want to be left alone).

Its the recovery part thats hard slogging…uphill with a heavy load like some shirpa, not knowing what hazard or pitfall is around the next ridge, or what stormy weather system is on its way or how long before conquering the summit.

I think thats what is not understandable to those who havent experienced it…the time it takes, the difficulty it presents, the complexity of the knot that needs unravelling, the pain of the emotions that come with it…and at least for me, the ever-present desire to make it, to succeed, to come out a winner, to find myself normal again.

My Ex N brother is not like him. In fact he is the victim of his older
brother…Same mother and dad and upbringing. My son from my ex n I believe
is going to be like his dad; many tendancys at 25 yrs old Sad…My older son
from a previous marraige, believes every word my ex has told him, including
how horrible his mother is/was…Even though he saw and heard the abuse. My
daughter is treated like I was by my EX N’ yet he says he loves his
daughter…Okay… I will never understand…I m getting to the point I am
exhausted mentally from trying…
Hugs
Mary Jane
----- Original Message -----
From: “mamolie” npd-cpt11010@lists.careplace.com
To: mtdonnelly@frontiernet.net
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] How was he/she created?

My N had a very distant, aloof ambition driven father that was gone from home literally for years at a time. I have been told that his mother was a social climber that didn’t care who she stepped on, yet he continues to hold her in high esteem about everyone else. I can see that his 25 year old son believes every lie his father has told, is already for arrogant and well, messed up. I believe that his son is an N too. At least my N is gone from my life for the most part and while its rough, I am at least free to seek sanity.

Sorry it took me so long to get back here, tough week finally free of N for four days!

His brother is a complete N, but a fun one (if that’s possible) He’s very manipulative and extremely cunning. He manages multiple franchises and is very overt about his sexual desires. Kinda strange when he used to hit on me in front of NH.

Worse yet is the father, he was raised by two very loving individuals, not sure why he was so attracted to his wife - she’s such a huge disfunction! NH’s father was a very strong leader in the community, but not so much at home. Very sad, it’s like he’s a prisioner… after all these years he doesn’t know better.

It is interesting especially that some of you’ve said that they do mostly come from dysfunction to an extent. My N also comes from dysfunction while growing up and he was bounced between family members each time his mom got a new boyfriend and didnt want the burden of him being around. But his major problem is the gross degree of spoiling that he had and still has when we visit. The family feels sorry for him for not having a father to grow up with to the point where they worship his every move and he doesn’t even have a slight chance to question his own guilt because theyve already told him he’s perfect. It is almost eerie watching the dynamic of that relationship between him and his mother. There is such a constant N supply there that he really places her above all other women in his life, if not everyone. He was so coddled growing up that now he really is so terrified of the world who ‘tells him when he’s wrong’ that he can barely function and gets very angry inside. Hence, taking it out in a way that is abusive to me, the dog, and others around him. the anger in his eyes practically glows with fury. He is so mad at the world for being so damaged. It is strange that these guys see that instead of looking into themselves for the answer to the hate. They dont hate the world. they hate themselves.

My exN/S described his parents as neglecting him
-making up for the lack of love by spoiling him with material things and freedom

  • making up for the lack of discipline with verbal and physical abuse

so he had the worst of all worlds,

a perfect storm I suppose.

Every person is different. One child can grow up with a highly chaotic, dysfunctional home, and through some blessing of natural or biological resilience, come out the other side with a fairly entact, healthy pesonality develpment.

However, it’s well documented that the kind of parenting described in this post…tips the scale toward what is considered ‘high risk’ enviornments for children. Certain enviornments do increase the likelihood that a child will suffer emotional developmental delays and having those developmental delays DOES increase the incidence mental problems later in life including mood disorderes, anxiety disorders, and personality disorders.

Life is complex, there will always be unsual occurances and seemingly unexplainable variables.

However, most science is leaning toward the highest risk factors being a combo of both:

a very invalidating environment (where physical or emotional abuse is either directly experienced or witnessed in the home)…

combined with a person’s natural predisposition to a lack of resilience (for example, a highly sensitive child may employ ridgid defense mechanisims as a means to survive; a less sensitive child may be able to take a very chaotic environment in stride and employ healthier coping strategies).

What factors facilitate the liklihood of a person develping a PD is a VERY important question for one reason alone.

As a counselor, there is probably nothing more important than idenfitying and employing interventions EARLY ON whenever possible in families that are dysfunctional, Because one thing is for sure…the more years that go on without any interventions or help or education or assistance in these families…THAT DOES help to cement destructive behavior patterns such that they become more and more ingrained, and the likilhood of those unhealthy defenses becoming a part of the person’s personality increases substantially if no intervention is ever made.

Early intervention, whenever possible, it key.

If we don’t understand and accept that certain kinds of home environments really do increase the risk of mental illness later in life, then we turn a blind eye to early intervention and ignore the suffering of children and the suffering of others for years to come. This is very important.

This article is about schizophrenia; but does a good job at highlighting the bi-psycho-social model currently accepted in the field of mental health, and it speaks of ‘mental illness’ generally, as well the factors seen as contributing or increasing the risk of schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia: Psychological and Social Causes and Treatments
Read more… Psycho-social Treaments · Schizophrenia Biology · Schizophrenia Causes, Risk Factors & Prevention · Schizophrenia Education
As we’ve reported in the past, research is revealing the specific aspects of family and environmental stressors that interact continually over time with a biologically predisposed brain to eventually trigger schizophrenia.

Related to this topic, Researcher William McFarlane, M.D., a Maine Medical Center-based researcher we’ve mentioned before, was recently awarded the APA/American Psychiatric Foundation 2007 Alexander Gralnick Award for Research in Schizophrenia. After receiving the award, Dr. McFarlane presented a lecture, titled “Biosocial Treatment of Schizophrenia”. In his lecture Dr. McFarlane made some interesting points on the subject of the development and outcomes in schizophrenia. Some of his points are very relevant to past findings on the causes, preventative actions, and treatments for schizophrenia we’ve covered before. Here’s a summary:

Dr. McFarlane discussed the fact that it is now known that schizophrenia is a disorder that develops overtime as a result of genetic / biological and environmental factors. So for example, if a child already has increased genetic risk due to a family history of schizophrenia and/or other mental illnesses, certain environmental stressors (such as a home environment that is frequently highly emotional, or judgemental), combine with these genetic susceptibilities and result in the development of mental disorders.

One important point that Dr. McFarlane stressed was that:

“a decade’s worth of research on microcomponents of environmental stress affirms the genetic nature of schizophrenia and does nothing to revive long-discredited theories blaming families or “schizophrenogenic” mothers.
Time and again research has shown that family and environmental stressors — encompassing very subtle interactions common to many families — work only in tandem with biological determinants to produce psychosis [and schizophrenia].”

Dr. McFarlane discussed that even until recently, environmental triggers were thought of as discrete events (for example, extreme stress due to a single event such as a loss of a mother, or extreme abuse), however current research demonstrates that some environmental triggers are continuous. (An example of a “continuous” environmental trigger might be again, a family environment where there is frequent highly emotion levels, high anxiety and conflict (or judgment and pressure) and therefore significant levels of stress in the home).

Dr. McFarlane further explained that continuous triggers can combine with inherent susceptibilities to mental disorders and result in the development and then worsening of prognosis after development of mental disorders. A model Dr. McFarlane used, that he believes does a good job of explaining this relationship, is that of a helix; that is, the cause and effect are closely entwined.

Of all the biologically determined psychosocial sensitivities believed to contribute to the development of schizophrenia and psychosis, the most subtle are negative emotional experiences.

It is especially the family with high “expressed emotion” for which there is the most research studies and data. High expressed emotion refers to the rejection, criticism, and anxious over-involvement that can occur between children and parents and other family members. It isn’t that anyone is to “blame” for this - its simply that sometimes there is a negative dynamic between parent and child that causes a great deal of stress. Its important for parents to try to avoid these situations or minimize them.

As Dr. McFarlane says, some people predisposed to schizophrenia or just developing “symptoms seem to elicit certain kinds of rejecting or anxious responses, which in themselves elicit more symptoms,” … “Who do you blame? It’s really a no-fault situation—the family is doing something, but they are only responding to the disorder. The negativity is reciprocal.”

The key message here is that the psychological and social environment affects the biology of a person and vice-versa, so that both are in constant, continual interaction. This idea brings up the issue of less controllable versus more controllable factors of a mental disorder.

For example, the genetic vulnerability to a mental disorder isn’t controllable, but certain environmental factors are: One of the most widely examined continual environmental triggers of mental illness and as mentioned above is the frequent experience of a highly emotional environment. In an attempt to combat this problem, researchers have studied preventative methods and found that adopting the growth, mindset approach is one way to effectively control stress factors in the environment. (Stress is known to increase the likelihood of the development of mental disorders.)

Dr. McFarlane also emphasized the importance of psychoeducation, stating that psychoeducational “…groups are designed to empower family members with information about the disease and the kind of social interactions that can exacerbate symptoms in the affected family member…In highly structured sessions, multifamily groups are taught specific strategies for lowering anxiety, conflict, and expressed emotion.”

Read the full Article: Psychosocial Interventions Beneficial in Schizophrenia. (Psychiatric News)

I can already see that my N has visited his NPD upon his 26 year old son. He is arrogant, lies easily, is unable to form normal emotional attachments and buys into everyone of his fathers lies. His daughte who is 20, lies easily and has the earmarks of becoming an alcoholic. Is it nature or nuture and does it really matter?

I work with children with several behavioral issues. It is devastating to know first hand what these parents have done to them. Two of my students live in group homes because they were taken from their homes by the state, due to poor parenting to say the least. My other student has two hard core drug addicts for parents, where the mother would climb up to the second floor of the house, to get her son’s attention, bang on the window and scream and cry for him (at the age of 10) to go and get her some money for her crack. She gave her son up and as a result, this young man has such issues himself; very scary. And of course there is so much more to the story. My other student is 400 lbs. He has a very dysfunctional mother and a father who wanted his son to act as the “tough guy” when he went to collect drug money from other thugs on the street. Then there’s my student who controls the show because Mom and Dad never knew how to say NO! He is constantly in trouble with the law, and there is a question of “empathy” with this kid, like the many others. It’s scary. I truly was frightened by one of my student’s behaviors. There is an underlying evilness to his personality. He came out and told me that if he hurt someone he would have no remourse or empathy. And in my opinion it was not for shock value. Intuitively I knew he meant what he said. So, nurture vs. nature? In some cases, you really wonder.

Lelee, I know from talking to pchyoligists that it is a family trait. usually if one of the parents have NPD the children usally have (at the very least) traits of it.which sounds like that family. its sad isn’t it? my XN has been e mailing me due to he was here 4 days ago and wanted to get back together, Tuesday he saw the therapist we use to see as a couple and I continued to see, I had an appointment w her on Thursday. He told the therapist we were getting back to gether!! and we were going to see her as a couple… so when i went in on Thurdsday and told her this is typical of him, he only focuses on what he wants. i never agreed to that or said i wanted to get back together, and i told her about finding him on the internet looking for a t/v, t/s,t/g. group sex. he had on the site he is BI-Curious.of couse he denied it and said someone must have broke into his e mail and set up that site! (all the signs were there, i was in denial)I was lying , and
he couldn’t believe I thoughts that about him. so i explained that with the lack of sex between us. the diaviate things he wanted me to do to him to get him arouse the few times  I had enough!!! I told him to get the F— out of my house and to leave me alone, I wanted NOTHING to do with him again.EVER. and she said ? me as if i said/did ANYTHING to encourage him? Did I make it clear that I wanted Nothing to do with him? I WAS SO HURT, I asked her how you can “misinterpt" “GET THE F___k out and leave me alone?” She explained that without a wiaver signed to disclose what i have said to her she couldnt do anything to 'Help” me,(ARE YOU KIDDING ME???) I told her absolutely not. the only reason he would use that info for is to his advantage Against me. I did agee to only let her repeat one thing from our sessions, “SHE WANTS ABSOLUTLY NO CONTACT WITH YOU AT ALL ANYMORE” and i put it in writing. I explained he is using her to try to convince me to go
back, and that I am the one that is wrong, wens, and thurs i recieved the “I love you” email and fri i recieved this one that says how twisted I am…CRICKET

— On Fri, 11/21/08, lelee npd-cpt11010@lists.careplace.com wrote:

From: lelee npd-cpt11010@lists.careplace.com
Subject: Re: [npd] How was he/she created?
To: heyroxann@yahoo.com
Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 8:34 PM

oops, wrong thread