Is it POSSIBLE to hurt a narcissist?

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

Hi everyone. I stumbled across this group several months ago when I was preparing to leave a 2-year relationship. As with so many others here, it was like a spot-light had been shined on my ex-boyfriend that illuminated so many things about him that I couldn’t explain. Suddenly, so many odd behaviors were not “just his way”, I was NOT crazy - it all made sense for the first time (I will add the disclaimer here that I am NOT a health care professional, he has NOT been diagnosed as NPD, I am simply referring to narcissistic BEHAVIOUR that he exhibited). Well, it’s been about four months and I am attempting to move on with my life. It took a couple of months for him to “get it” that we had broken up. In fact, for him, it seemed nothing had really changed!! (he lives on the East coast in the States, I am West coast Canada. It was long distance for the first year, then he moved out here. After the breakup he went back to e-mailing me, and calling me in basically the same way that we had when we started dating, despite the fact that I told him I didn’t want to. He was constantly “updating” me on what was going on his life. Eventually I had to spell it out for him “DO NOT CONTACT ME ANYMORE”. It’s been about a month since I heard from him, which is finally giving me some time to process everything) Well, as I said, I am TRYING to move on but I am left feeling just, ANGRY. Very, very, very ANGRY!!! Angry at him. Angry at myself for being with him, for not seeing this sooner. And it doesn’t seem to be going away. I think because of the fact that he seems to be completely unaffected by the breakup!!! I mean, we were supposed to get married. I was going to give up my job, my apartment, EVERYTHING and move to the US to be with him. When we broke up he essentially said “Oh well”, shrugged, and that was about it. If there is a label of a “detached” narcissist, that would be him.

I guess I am asking the question: is there anything I can say to him to hurt him? Not in a malicious way so much, but… I feel that part of the reason I am SO angry is that I’ve never really had the opportunity to GET IT OUT (he was in Europe when we broke up so I told him over the phone. I won’t go into why - not enough room - but basically I had had enough of his emotional detachment.) When I told him our relationship was over, his reaction was (and this is a DIRECT quote): “I suppose I’ll be sad in a few minutes”. That pretty much describes him to a “T”!!! So we break up, he goes back to his old life, back “underwater” as he would describe himself in moments of clarity, and I sit here and stew and go over everything in my head (and over, and over, and over) with no resolution. I still have some of his belongings that I have to send to him. I am fantasizing about including one of the books about narcissism I have read with the pertinent areas highlighted and asking him to read it. Is this just totally pathetic of me??? I KNOW I need to let this go but… I don’t know how! If I did that, and he actually DID read it, would it have ANY effect on him? When we were together, the worst thing I could ever do to him was to point out the gaping chasm between reality, and HIS version of the way things were. When he would ever admit that there was a disparity there (and it was VERY rare) he would be furious with me, and try to make me feel guilty “do you feel GOOD now? Do you ENJOY humiliating me?” etc. He would eventually go back to his “fantasy land” and the reality would be conveniently forgotten.

The bottom line question: IS there any point in trying to get him to see any of this about himself??? How many narcissists are self-aware???

thanks to everyone in advance for any advice, and to Sam for so much insight into this (I read your descriptions of yourself, so many of them could have been written by my ex - it was kind of eerie)

  • J -
#2

Dear Mauskateer:

I am responding to you because my first boyfriend ( as my father and brother are my N’s) acted very similarly. We dated off and on age 18-23. We were born at the EXACT same time, June 19th, 1968 and became very, very close.
By the end, I couldn’t imagine living my life with out him. He also had to move to Europe and was vague about the reasons (deported as he was a swiss citizen). I KNEW in my heart of hearts that he loved me deeply. (He would tell my roommate at the time how much he did and all his friends), but when it came down to it he couldn’t really tell
me. He told me that “love” was an over used word.

Now we were VERY YOUNG, I agree. But I remember the indifference and the peculiar behavior like it was yesterday. I remember THE LAST thing I told him in my Volkswagen golf in 1990, " YOU WILL ALWAYS REGRET THIS". Low and behold two years after we broke up, he got a complete stranger pregnant that he met in a bar ( In Geneva), no love connection, thoughtless one night stand. AND HE MARRIED HER.

When I was pregnant with my first son in 1999, there was a knock at my door. My EX came to visit me out of the blue. I was eight months pregnant at the time, so their was no room for an affair, literally… But he just came and stared for 20 minutes and said he missed talking with me so much. I should have just kicked him out, but I WANTED CLOSURE. To NO AVAIL… I told my husband about this visit.

HE NEVER GAVE ME CLOSURE, because I think he knew DEEP DOWN that he had made the worst mistake of his life, but he would NEVER admit it. Then years later (2005),my fax machine had been ringing psychotically all week long. I had “flashes” of this must be my ex, but I had no caller ID. There was no reason for my fax machine to ring so often because I had shut down my home office business. Day four I went to pick up my kids at camp, AND THERE HE WAS. His daughter was at camp at the same place. He had moved back to the states that week and he admitted that he had been trying to contact me since he got off the plane. I had SHIVERS down my spine. He had been stalking me. His wife was there (couldn’t speak a word of english as she was from South America). I felt SO strange. He continued to call me as he asked for my cell phone number. I tried to have an honest conversation and give this saga peace, but he wouldn’t get to the REASON for his calls. Ambiguous,
indifferent, detached, vague.

Then WHY are you calling me? I was obsessed with KNOWING, and he wouldn’t give me the answer. It finally came to a head last November when he wanted me to come and meet him for coffee where he and his wife would be. I would pretend that I was helping her with a spanish children’s book, as I was in the industry (although I had stopped 2 years prior). But he admitted that he just wanted to see me, putting both his wife an me in a very awkward situation. I declined. I finally BLEW A GASKET an told him off via email ( which I am sure he was enraged about because it was on his yahoo account). I gave it closure all right. But again, indifference was his response. And he has disappeared once more…

SO WHAT DID HE POSSIBLY WANT FROM ME? Did he EVER love me? I will never know…

#3

I think I mentioned Eric Berne’s account of the victim, savior, persecutor (abuser) game before. One problem with taking such a focus of ones experiences in life is that the roles switch around. The victim can become the abuser, often with the savior’s help, and the persecutor become the victim.

#4

((((Mausketeer))))

Thats a heartbreaking story that I think many of us can identify with in some form or another. I wish there were some words I could send that would make the anger just go away so you could be washed over with some cool waters of quiet and calm. I wasn’t able to figure that out for myself, but I do remember many times when I just embraced the anger.

It felt a whole lot more powerful and strong than the sadness, grief and longing.

You’ve lost something big. And while you had it, it hurt.

I just am remembering that scene in that old Kung Fu series, when GrassHopper has to carry the searingly hot kettle with the dragons on it, by grasping it with his inner arms, only to have the images scarred into him for life.

The pain you felt in your relationship likely hurt a whole helluva lot, and maybe like me, the pain of coming to the point of ending it, and the period of time that follows it hurts EVEN MORE.

Its shitty thats for sure. We want relief, even if its acting out our anger, we just want some kind of relief from the pressure of the building emotions, and the pain.

But I think other survivors here who have more time under their belt than me might agree with me…the pain after breaking up is like grasping that searing hot kettle.

Feel it, cry, write here, yell in a forest, whine to your friends, file away angry emails you could have sent, send out as much of that emotion as you can in whatever ways you want- but embrace that this is the trial-by-fire you get to stand strong in enduring,

and when its over and the healing has taken place over time (and who knows, with therapy perhaps) you’ll have some scars you’ll carry through your life, but they’ll remind you how you made it through, how you had the tenacity, the will, the fortitude to endure this pain to get to a more glorious future.

ha!

Maybe we should call you GrassHopper? :wink:

I felt like you did MANY times, and I sent all those emails, and I got something from it for myself, but I ALSO was paid for those sins by more hurtful stuff coming from my ex. I cant say it was worth it. But I dont beat myself up for having done it either. I hope you dont email or call him, but if you do, you’ll survive that too, and we’ll be here to hear the story and offer support and understanding.

I’m sorry you’re living the worse part now. But I can tell you, its only a matter of holding on tightly to yourself before things start getting better :slight_smile:

I’m glad youre here.