Mutual Hate-fest

Narcissistic personality disorder
#21

Brain and Personality

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders39.html

Narcissistic and psychopathic parents and their children - click on the
links:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4727

Misdiagnosing Narcissism - Asperger’s Disorder

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal72.html

Misdiagnosing Personality Disorders as Asperger’s Disorder

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders62.html

Pathological narcissism is a reaction to prolonged abuse and trauma in early
childhood or early adolescence. The source of the abuse or trauma is
immaterial - the perpetrators could be parents, teachers, other adults, or
peers. Pampering, smothering, spoiling, and “engulfing” the child are also
forms of abuse - see these:

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/narcissismglance.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal42.html

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php/type/doc/id/419

----- Original Message -----
From: “bup” npd-cpt6452@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] Hate-fest

#22

The Myth of Mental Illness

http://samvak.tripod.com/mentalillness.html

Genetics and Personality Disorders

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders27.html

The Genetic Underpinnings of Narcissism

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal43.html

Narcissism at a Glance

http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissismglance.html

----- Original Message -----
From: “susiejo” npd-cpt6452@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] Hate-fest

#23

Benis is his own person for sure. Have you ever seen him?

Psychologists have never been able to do anything about NPD. It has to be physical. I’ve gone through learning on metabolism. There is a lot there for mood disorders, but not NPD. My interest now is in the brain, executive functions, frontal lobes. Have to dig though for information.

#24

I’d be very interested in reading information on links about much of this stuff, for instance the genetic underpinnings of narcissism.

The problem is, because I’m biased, I wont read anything thats on any of Sam’s sites.

Does anyone have any links that are NOT written by Sam?

I work everyday with people displaying narcissistic behaviours and I could use ifnormation I both trust and would find helpful.

#25

There is no gene ever identified that causes narcissism. I don’t think there ever will be. I rather think it is going to be tied to various brain disorders involving the frontal lobes whose functions involve the traits in NPD.

For an interesting theory on personality and narcissism, I do find A M Benis interesting

http://narcissism.homestead.com/

#26

A term you may be familiar with is “executive functions.” This are higher level skills necessary in relationships. They are tied to the frontal lobes of the brain. Empathy is an executive function.

University of California in San Francisco has a great neuroscience program going. Read under emotions.

http://memory.ucsf.edu/Education/Topics/emotions.html

#27

Ah yes,

AM Benis IS interesting…he is also like something straight out of Henry James, with a Bio straight out of “Young Hannibal”…

HOWEVER, his use of the word “Narcissism” is totally different even to standard useage in psychology…

…but it is all explained on his site…

Pretty sure I don’t agree with his theory, but his methodology is flawless…

GD

#28

that wasnt very helpful, sorry

#29

Hi, Phoenix,

Use the bibliography at the end of my articles (on which my articles are
based).

Still, it is not very mature not to read someone’s work just because you
don’t like him or her.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6452@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] Hate-fest

#30

Sam,

but it is very mature to go no contact with a narcissist yes?

I dont tell you what or who you are, I only take you at your word.

So stop that strategy with me right now.

#31

I haven’t responded to you in my “capacity” as a narcissist. I have
responded to you as the author of an article about a topic you have
expressed an interest in.

When you read articles or books, I assume you don’t first test their authors
for personality disorders (or you would be left with very little reading
material, scholarly or otherwise).

One word of advice:

Modify your language. Telling people to “stop” doing something "right now"
tends to alienate them.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6452@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Hate-fest

#32

Sam,

as a teacher of at-risk teens who is trained as a therapist, I know exactly what I am doing when I say 'stop".

It may not be what you like to hear, and maybe you dont want to be alienated from me, but you’ve made it so thats what I am saying. Its my reaction to how you are with me.

I know you understand this.

#33

and regarding the resources, I’ll be authentic with you right now Sam, if you posted anything in response to that that WASNT somehow linked to your book, your websites, or anything else you’ve written, thinsg that are separate from you, I WOULD read them.

I know thats not what you wanted to hear, but I also know you do understand the impact a N has on the people around them, and you’ve made it so that I’m just not interested in or valuing what you write anymore.

Thats has nothing to do with my maturity level and everything to do with a N’s impact on the people he interacts with.

Its the natural outcome of how you relate to others.

#34

Of course I do. I am only advising you:

  1. That this mode of assertiveness is not and should not be UNIVERSALLY
    applicable to EVERYONE.

  2. You risk alienating many people - for instance those who are NOT at-risk
    teens and are NOT your patients.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6452@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Hate-fest

#35

I am afraid I don’t understand.

If I know for fact that an author is a raving narcissist - I should not read
anything he has written???

Let’s take it ad absurdum:

If an author has abused you repeatedly and directly - you will boycott
everything he or she has written???

What would be left to read? So many authors and scholars ARE raging
narcissists (especially in the mental health professions!!!).

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6452@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Hate-fest

#36

EXAMPLE

I am a Jew. Hitler has murdered 6 million of my coreligionists.

According to your principles, if I am a JEWISH history major, I should shut
him out and NOT read anything he has written because he is a narcissist who
has abused my nearest and dearest.

???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Vaknin author of “Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited”"
palma@unet.com.mk
To: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6452@lists.careplace.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Hate-fest

I am afraid I don’t understand.

If I know for fact that an author is a raving narcissist - I should not read
anything he has written???

Let’s take it ad absurdum:

If an author has abused you repeatedly and directly - you will boycott
everything he or she has written???

What would be left to read? So many authors and scholars ARE raging
narcissists (especially in the mental health professions!!!).

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6452@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Hate-fest

#37

Sam,

I know what I am saying is not pleasant to hear.

You yourself, how you relate to others and to me, has turned me off of you. Completely.

I dont need anything youve written anymore. I cant remember when I closed your book, July I think, I havent read anything of yours since. I dont want to. I dont need to. I dont value it. You cant argue me into valuing it, or you.

I either do, or I dont.

You need to take the responsibility though of ruining that for yourself. I know I’m not the only one who feels this way. AND youve written about how a N, YOU, do this to people. So lets stop arguing about it shall we?

Its an outcome I’m certain you have experience with.

Also, its true I dont get paid handsomely for relating you and having clear boundaries with you. But this isnt about you. Its about me, and how I dont want to continue communicating with you anymore because youre not respectful of me. Youve ruined that too with your behaviour. So this isnt about trying to teach you how to relate to me differently, this is about me telling you, you dont get to treat me like this.

You just dont.

And if I alienate you, and other N’s on this forum, thats OK with me because then I still get the same outcome.

I’m not here to trya nd make friends with you.

now…thats it, I guess I’m adding you to the list of people I have to turn away from. Its been a banner week!

#38

Phoenix,

I will respect your wish and not write to you directly and personally.

However, as long as you are on a public forum and pose questions, I have
every intention of responding to them with the hope that other members may
find my responses useful.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6452@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Hate-fest

#39

Englechen said:

I am a Jew. Hitler has murdered 6 million of my coreligionists.

According to your principles, if I am a JEWISH history major, I should shut
him out and NOT read anything he has written because he is a narcissist who
has abused my nearest and dearest.

Hell no (though what you would want to read him for rather confusing???) but maybe you should find an healthier personal hero?

…and stop using Goebbels as a role model…

You are not presenting yourself honestly as one source, one opinion on NPD, you are presenting yourself as “Der Fuhrer” of NPD, and steadily striving to obliterate any other, (often far more expert, informed and impartial, almost inevitably more honest) voice on NPD.

GD