My own inner jekyll and hyde

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

Why do we make it so hard for ourselves? Why do I read books and articles and the very wise posts from you people but still doubt? Why cant I just fully accept reality and do what I have to do?

I really feel like Im 2 people ,not just my friend…maybe Im not jekyl and hyde but Im defo not whole…I have my head person that knows my friend is bad news…an N or tendancies that way at least… knows how much hurt hes caused me over the years, whether his fault or mine he was still the reason for the hurt.It sees the ways he treats others they way HE is the most important person in his life whatever he pretends. Then my heart person that just cant accept that hes as bad as I think…it cant have all been an illusion? he must have felt the things he said? etc etc

Its a real inner battle at times…the weekend for some reason was really bad…I think Im thro the worst of it again but its still not ok…

Sometimes I really feel Im getting there ( where? ) then I feel Im getting nowhere at all…

Frustration does not describe it…

I wanna look back to the good time and remember them as good and real for me even if not for him. But its still just too painful I cant bear that I had something so amazing and it turned so bad…a friendship for goodness sake. It should be so much easier than a partner???But still Im failing…

Atm Im sure he thinks all is fine between us ( if he thinks of me at all which is doubtful) cos Ive given him no reason to think anything else…when he was slow to talk the other week I didnt stress at him, when he didnt reply to my sms I just left it. Im sure hes thinks hes great cos the times I did talk he talked nicely and didnt say…no time…Im sure it wont cross his mind Id like HIM to say Hi to know he really wants to talk to me…

Im trying hard for it to BE ok between us, Im trying to take a step back and have some distance but Im finding it hard not minding about his lack of concern. Hes an N Im pretty sure so I know the deal…he doesnt care really or only in his way…so why am I still sad and disapointed when he proves himself over and over? Do I really hope Ive got him all wrong?

Its funny but many times hes promised me a letter or something thro the post…and wow the time Ive spent waiting and hoping for these ellusive things…OK over the years he has sent letters etc but so many of these ‘promised’ ones, esp ones of explanation have just never arrived. Im mad now cos he told me hed send something for my mum and of course its not here despite him saying hed post it 2 saturdays ago. He told me not to tell her cos its a suprise. Well I know him so didnt tell her cos it might not come, tho she knows what hes like n wouldnt actually care. However, I care. Im mad he said hed send something for my mum whos seriously ill ( doing well atm tho thank God) Im mad that again I watch for the post and every day is a reminder of what hes like…but it still wont properly sink into me…sorry but I AM crazy, I have to be…

ahhhhhhhh

#2

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq68.html

Mourning the Narcissist
Frequently Asked Question # 68
By: Dr. Sam Vaknin

Question:

If the narcissist is as abusive as you say - why do we react so badly when
he leaves?

Answer:

At the commencement of the relationship, the Narcissist is a
dream-come-true. He is often intelligent, witty, charming, good looking, an
achiever, empathetic, in need of love, loving, caring, attentive and much
more. He is the perfect bundled answer to the nagging questions of life:
finding meaning, companionship, compatibility and happiness. He is, in other
words, ideal.

It is difficult to let go of this idealized figure. Relationships with
narcissists inevitably and invariably end with the dawn of a double
realisation. The first is that one has been (ab)used by the narcissist and
the second is that one was regarded by the narcissist as a disposable,
dispensable and interchangeable instrument (object).

The assimilation of this new gained knowledge is an excruciating process,
often unsuccessfully completed. People get fixated at different stages. They
fail to come to terms with their rejection as human beings - the most total
form of rejection there is.

We all react to loss. Loss makes us feel helpless and objectified. When our
loved ones die - we feel that Nature or God or Life treated us as
playthings. When we divorce (especially if we did not initiate the
break-up), we often feel that we have been exploited and abused in the
relationship, that we are being “dumped”, that our needs and emotions are
ignored. In short, we again feel objectified.

Losing the narcissist is no different to any other major loss in life. It
provokes a cycle of bereavement and grief (as well as some kind of mild post
traumatic stress syndrome in cases of severe abuse). This cycle has four
phases: denial, rage, sadness and acceptance.

Denial can assume many forms. Some go on pretending that the narcissist is
still a part of their life, even going to the extreme of “interacting” with
the narcissist by pretending to “communicate” with him or to “meet” him
(through others, for instance).

Others develop persecutory delusions, thus incorporating the imaginary
narcissist into their lives as an ominous and dark presence. This ensures
"his" continued “interest” in them - however malevolent and threatening that
"interest" is perceived to be. These are radical denial mechanisms, which
border on the psychotic and often dissolve into brief psychotic
micro-episodes.

More benign and transient forms of denial include the development of ideas
of reference. The narcissist’s every move or utterance is interpreted to be
directed at the suffering person, his ex, and to carry a hidden message
which can be “decoded” only by the recipient.

Others deny the very narcissistic nature of the narcissist. They attribute
his abusive conduct to ignorance, mischief, lack of self-control (due to
childhood abuse or trauma), or benign intentions. This denial mechanism
leads them to believe that the narcissist is really not a narcissist but
someone who is not aware of his “true” being, or someone who merely and
innocently enjoys mind games and toying with people’s lives, or an unwitting
part of a dark conspiracy to defraud and abuse gullible victims.

Often the narcissist is depicted as obsessed or possessed - imprisoned by
his “invented” condition and, really, deep inside, a nice and gentle and
lovable person. At the healthier end of the spectrum of denial reactions we
find the classical denial of loss - the disbelief, the hope that the
narcissist may return, the suspension and repression of all information to
the contrary.

Denial in mentally healthy people quickly evolves into rage. There are a few
types of rage. Rage can be focussed and directed at the narcissist, at other
facilitators of the loss, such as the narcissist’s lover, or at specific
circumstances. It can be directed at oneself - which often leads to
depression, suicidal ideation, self-mutilation and, in some cases, suicide.
Or, it can be diffuse, all-pervasive, all-encompassing and engulfing. Such
loss-related rage can be intense and in bursts or osmotic and permeate the
whole emotional landscape.

Rage gives place to sadness. It is the sadness of the trapped animal, an
existential angst mixed with acute depression. It involves dysphoria
(inability to rejoice, to be optimistic, or expectant) and anhedonia
(inability to experience pleasure or to find meaning in life). It is a
paralysing sensation, which slows one down and enshrouds everything in the
grey veil of randomness. It all looks meaningless and empty.

This, in turn, gives place to gradual acceptance, renewed energy, and bouts
of activity. The narcissist is gone both physically and mentally. The void
left in his wake still hurts and pangs of regret and hope still exist. But,
on the whole, the narcissist is transformed into a narrative, a symbol,
another life experience, or a (tedious) cliché. He is no longer omni-present
and his former victim entertains no delusions as to the one-sided and
abusive nature of the relationship or as to the possibility and desirability
of its renewal.

----- Original Message -----
From: “lonelyplace” npd-cpt6077@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: [npd] My own inner jekyl and hyde…

#3

Thanks sam…

This line is especially real and sad…" They
fail to come to terms with their rejection as human beings - the most total
form of rejection there is"…

I understand how the stages work… I just find Im going round and round them in circles…over and over…denial, rage, sadness, acceptance to a degree…I feel them all depending how I am at the time…Im not really working through them maybe and perhaps I never fully ‘get’ acceptance at all…

I also need to add Im so damn obsessive still about him too, thinking about him is one thing but…I have to check the online sites I know he uses… ok its harming no one…maybe hurts me depending what I see/read … I feel its the only way I know what hes doing as we actually chat so little…I just think the very fact I need to keep doing it isnt healthy…

wow I need a LOT of work still and its not easy to improve ones self when half of you doesnt want to be fixed or move on…

…

#4

Thanks Bup…my brains not functioning as well as it should…but thats clearer…and defo something to work at…

at times Ive no clue whats what any more whats his whats mine whats anything

id abs NO CLUE tho that Id ever find anyone this hard to let go of…and Ive lost others, more worthy people than him… craziness…

I miss ‘him’ so much and wish I could say that to him…

#5

I JUST WANTED TO SHARE WITH THIS GROUP, SOMETHING I AM WORKING ON. I
WENT TO QUAKER
SCHOOL FOR 11 YEARS. I READ A SIGN NEAR MY HOUSE EVERYDAY AND
SUDDENLY IT DAWNED
ON ME HOW POWERFUL THIS STATEMENT IS, " THERE IS NO WAY TO PEACE,
PEACE IS THE WAY."

NPD IS A WAR INSIDE PEOPLE. THEY CAN NOT GET OUT OF THEIR INNER
WAR. IF YOU CHRONICALLY AND CRITICALLY LOOK TOWARDS PEACE WITHIN
YOURSELVES, PERHAPS THOSE WHO HAVE INNER WARS INSIDE THEIR MINDS, CAN
NOT PENETRATE YOUR SOUL AND WIN.

On Sep 26, 2007, at 8:06 AM, lonelyplace wrote:

#6

Hmmm Im not exactly sure what you mean Bup?

#7

DON’T LET THE INNER DEMONS OF YOUR NARCISSIST BREAK YOUR PEACE.
REMAIN TRUE TO
YOUR INNER PEACE AND THEIR “EVIL” WILL NOT BE ABLE TO WIN.

On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:29 AM, lonelyplace wrote:

#8

Narcissism and evil

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal65.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/dialogues10.html

Narcissism as War

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq38.html

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “bup” npd-cpt6077@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] My own inner jekyl and hyde…

#9

I am months into therapy…lonelyplace…I am
letting go of the fact that you can not control these
people…They are the ones that are fighting the battle.
You can’t fight it for them, or protect them from
themselves. You are not there yet, but I promise, you will get
there. What is more worth it to you, your PEACE, INNER SANCTUM or
his so called “love” (which really isn’t love at all?) It might be
difficult to answer right now, but in days/ months to come, it will
be…

ADMIT IT, WE ARE ALL HIGHLY addicted to the idea (as co-narcissists)
that being with a narcissist is glamorous, sexy, and HIGHER than
the mundane or normal life…

But it is a BUNCH OF BULLSHIT is what it is!..

The narcissist BURNS OUT from his own FLAME…And then blames
it on you for not being good enough to keep his flame
burning…

A mundane existence is not as FIERY and HEDONISTIC, but it sure beats
the withdraw you feel when you aren’t getting the fix…

Being with a narcissist is JUST LIKE BEING A HEROIN ADDICT…You
just want the HIGH that you once
felt…But it is LONG GONE and it will NEVER COME BACK…

Turn to your OWN light, your OWN creativity (which has been STOMPED),
running, yoga, looking at art, volunteerism…And you will get
the morphine injections naturally… You can’t get it from
other people…

On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:50 AM, lonelyplace wrote:

#10

Hey >:-O

bup npd-cpt6077@lists.careplace.com wrote:
Oh, Double Dee, these men…F’d up as they get…

Rene

Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

#11

My Ns are my brother and my father… I already kicked the
heroin habit with Narcissist boyfriends, although
I totally understand the high and miss it often… I
now just have to separate myself emotionally from my family, which is
not an easy thing to do…Believe me…It is the hardest
thing I have ever done…But
they are incapable of treating me like a human being…

On Sep 26, 2007, at 2:26 PM, lonelyplace wrote:

#12

The thing is Bup I dont want to control him…I dont really want to change him… I do wish he didnt have these N traits tho…I want us to be the good friends we were.It could be less passionate than it was and us have less contact than we first did…but still be good best friends…not like it is now…

I know I cant help him or mend him but I could be there for him…well I am there for him…he just doesnt especially want me now he has more glamourous less complicated friends…

Ill agree with the drug comparrison … I am addicted to him…and need a fix of him…a friend once said I want any contact, Id rather have bad contact than none at all…Im not sure. I just know no matter how unkind he was Id always forgive and go back for more…

BUT I am NOT adicted to the idea of having an N in my life, it has to be one of the least glamourous and unpleasnt things I can think of…hes my first and he can be my last…

I loved the way he made me feel good and special and the closeness we had…I dont love the hurt and confusion and totall head f*ck he brought with him…

But as you say…he cant give it hes not who I thought he was…and I have to find it within me…

HUGS

#13

bup is right, part of developing healthy self esteem is developing a sense of self. We get so involved in other peoples lives that we don’t handle our own. It’s easier to work on someone else’s issues then to work on our own. This is a major part of codendency and it’s common for the narcissist and codependant to build a life together. The codependant focuses on the narcissist and the narcissist is tickeled pink. And the cycle begins, the codependants dissapointment and the narcissists control and indifference.

Constantly ruminating on your friend is unhealthy and you know this. You are trying to make sense of what can’t be made sense of. You understand it but you haven’t accepted it. There’s a game my friends and I play when we read fortune cookies. When you read your fortune add “IN BED” at the end. So it ends up sounding something like this:

You will have great luck and prosperity “IN BED”

You can imagine the giggles this game produces. I mention it because that’s what you should do. Whenever you think about him add “BUT HE’S SICK” to the end or “BUT HE’S A NARCISSIST”. So you can begin to write a different story a true story, the real story. Not the fantasy about how you wish things could be different. See what I mean:

I miss him "BUT HE’S SICK"
He’s so much fun "BUT HE’S A NARCISSIST"
I can’t stop thinking about him "BUT HE’S SICK"
I wish he would call “BUT HE’S A NARCISSIST”

Whenever you think about him do this! You need to force yourself to move forward and accept who he really is. Do this exercise and keep reading about narcissim. Don’t allow yourself to dwell in the memories of what could be. Whenever I felt sad or confused I would pick up my book(s) and read about narcissim. And when I started to fantasize about being with him I would add the phrases above to the end of every thought. Soon you will start to accept and understand his true nature and be able to forgive yourself. It won’t happen if you torture yourself constantly. If you want closure and healing you must give it to yourself.

#14

Surviving the Narcissist

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq80.html

The Inverted Narcissist - Codependence and Relationships with Abusive
Narcissists

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq66.html

Codependence and the Dependent Personality Disorder

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders22.html

The Dependent Patient - A Case Study

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders56.html

Danse Macabre - Trauma bonding and the Stockholm Syndrome

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily.html

The Cult of the Narcissist

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal79.html

----- Original Message -----
From: “DoubleDee” npd-cpt6077@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] My own inner jekyl and hyde…

#15

Thanks Sam for backing me up! lol

#16

Bup…I cant even start to imagine that…family is family…I dont envy you but you are so right…good luck

thanks for the links Sam

Doubledee …wondeful…you are so right too…Im doing myself no favours at all.I just dont know how to stop…esp as part of me doesnt WANT to stop…crazy eh? I need to get ALL of me to want to heal somehow…

The silly thing is…Ive no clue why I would become codepenant on him? Im a wife and mum to 5 children , one of my sisters boys is very handicapped…Ive plenty of lives to be involved in. I didnt need another…but maybe I did miss something that was wrong in me…not sure…

Before I met him I was very confident and full of self esteem and popular…I was everybodies helper really…I love to help anyone. I do it cos its great to be able to help someone and it makes me feel good.I do know, understand and accept that I cant help and fix everyone and defo dont need to control anyone or be controlled.(I nursed for years too.) He reached to me and the rest is history , I just dont quite know why…I just know EVERYTHING to do with him ever has been totally abnormal and extreem …

I abs LOVE the idea u gave me…its so great to have something to DO…it can only help…thank u so very much…

HUGS

#17

I only speak from my own experiences. I obsessed alot over my Ex. He was so much fun! Ya know the other day he came by the house to pick up his navy pea coat. We sat at the kicthen table talking and laughing I listened to his tall tales and realized how much I loved it. Well I got up to make a PB&J sandwich (peanut butter & jelly) which is my idea of satisfying a sweet tooth. Anyway he wasn’t staying long so I made one for myself as he told his tall tales. When I was done I turned my back on the sandwhich to open some mail. We talked a bit more and as he was leaving he said “look at your sandwich”. I turned around and you not what! “HE ATE MY SANDWICH”. I turned my back for a second! How did he do that so fast and I don’t think he ever stopped talking. I started laughing and yelling you creep! I can’t believe you did that so fast! He left waving bye bye with a mouth full of PB&J. I closed the door and laughed while I made another sandwich. And the moral of the story is…

Any women who’s grown up in a house with MEN (brothers, fathers etc.) knows you can’t leave anything in the fridge or on the counter without running the risk of loosing your meal. Men/boys have amazing appetites. So his antics remind me of family, he’s familiar and comfortable like an old shoe. He’s alot like my family the good and the bad. Since I grew up in a dysfuntional home with a narcissistic father this is not necessarily a good thing. However it was an insightful moment and I’m learning to appreciate this.

All we can do is reflect on ourselves and learn from our mistakes. On this forum we get to air our views ask for advice and share our experiences. If my experiences help you move forward then my suffering was not for nothing.

#18

Oh, Double Dee, these men…F’d up as they get…

On Sep 26, 2007, at 7:03 PM, DoubleDee wrote:

#19

MYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY SAAAAAAAANDWICH !!!

hahaha Im a Friends fan and your story made me laugh so much and think of Ross losing his sandwich ! You know watching Friends is one of MY tonics…no matter how bad I feel it can make me laugh or at least stop and smile a bit…I need to remember that…

3 of my kids are boys so I know exactly what u mean about huge appetites and food disapearing…!

My friend too is a lot of fun…outrageous and silly but I loved it so much like a breath of fresh air…and the tall stories are fine when you take them for what they are and dont hang onto every word…

Well Im feeling lots better than I was…and defo have food for thought lol
Im gonna try your …i miss him BUT HES SICK etc tactic and the positive thinking/ feeling that was mentioned in another topic…Ive done that with other things before…try to make it a win / win situation…ie I hope its a warm sunny day tomorrow but if it rains at least the garden gets a drink !

and I guess I still need time to fully accept everything…the whole situ and all the extreems both good and bad…I still need to work thro the stages to heal…maybe I try to rush myself always

its certainly a learning process and its good to have somewhere to talk about it with people who understand how extreem and ott it is and damn difficult to get over…

one day at a time…

thanks so much for taking time to reply all of yous !

HUGS