Narcissistic Rage

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

Narcissistic rage is a term coined by Heinz Kohut in 1972. This article on rage pertains to Kohut's use of the concept in Kohut's Self Psychology, a school of thought within the psychodynamic/psychoanalytic theory.

Narcissistic rage is a reaction to narcissistic injury (when the narcissist feels degraded by another person). When the narcissist's grandiose sense of self worth is perceivably being attacked by another person, the narcissist's natural reaction is to rage and pull-down the self worth of others (to make the narcissist feel superior to others). It is an attempt by the narcissist to soothe their internal pain and hostility, while at the same time rebuilding their self worth.

 Narcissistic rage should not be confused with anger (although the two are similar), and is not necessarily caused by a situation that would typically provoke anger in an individual.

 Narcissistic rage also occurs when the narcissist is perceivably being prevented from accomplishing their grandiose fantasies. Narcissistic rage is frequently short lasting, and passes when the narcissist rationalizes the shame that they felt.

 History of narcissistic rage Heinz Kohut was the first to coin the idea of narcissistic rage. His book “The Analysis of the Self”in 1972 introduced the psychoanalytic concept as pertaining to narcissistic rage. His explanation of narcissistic rage and depression stated, “depressions are interrupted by rages because things are not going their way, because responses are not forthcoming in the way they expected and needed”. He went further to say that narcissists may even search for conflict to find a way to alleviate pain or suffering.

 Narcissistic injury – the cause of rage According to Kohut, rages are a result of the shame at being faced with failure.

 Narcissistic rage is the uncontrollable and unexpected anger that occurs due to a narcissistic injury. Narcissistic injury is a threat to a narcissist’s self-esteem or worth. Rage comes in many forms, but all pertain to the same important thing, revenge.

Narcissistic rage

 Narcissistic rages are based on fear and will endure even after the threat is gone. To the narcissist, the rage is directed towards the person that they feel has slighted them; to other people, the rage is incoherent and unjust. This rage impairs their cognition, therefore impairing their judgment. During the rage they are prone to shouting, fact distortion and making groundless accusations.

 It’s believed that narcissists have two layers of rage. The first layer of rage can be thought of as a constant anger (towards someone else), and the second layer being a self-aimed wrath. Two specific identified forms of narcissistic rage are explosive and passive-aggressive. The explosive form being an obvious anger, for example, damaging property (or people) and being verbally abusive.

The passive-aggressive sort might be sulking or giving their target the silent treatment.

They can become enraged to the point of being homicidal especially if he/she has the need to seek revenge.

Narcissistic rage is usually short lasting, but can provoke problems towards those that the anger is targeted towards. 

 Perfectionism Narcissism can be a considered a self-perceived form of perfectionism. Narcissists often are pseudo-perfectionists and require being the center of attention and create situations where they will receive attention. This attempt at being perfect is cohesive with the grandiose self-image that the narcissist has of him-/herself.

If a perceived state of perfection isn’t reached it can lead to guilt, shame, anger or anxiety because he/she believes that he/she will lose the imagined love and admiration from other people if he/she isn’t perfect.

I have experienced many narcissistic rages through the years living with my H. Nothing in our daily lives ever warranted the kind of rage he carried inside him. That is exactly what hooked my empathy into him and trying to get help for him/us. I knew there had to be a REASON for it and I did not think anyone would want to be or feel like that.You know I told everyone one we went to about that rage but no one said anything and of coarse he also put on his charming, witty, Mr Wonderful act. One of the last therapists he saw, he talked about feeling guilty about his drinking years, which he actually has no memories of what he said or did. Their memories are definitely impaired, but he fooled this guy and he recommened the book," How Good Do I Have To Be". I thought WOW, why didn't anyone ever tell me about that book, cause I was never good enough.Anyways, since I unmasked my H and tore down every excuse he ever gave me and did not let his rages make me back down, I now get the SILENT TREATMENT when talking about our lives, problems with our son,  he looks like he is being beaten with chains. They are protected every which way there is, you can not break through. I WAS VERY SURPISED TO SEE THAT" SILENCE" IS STILL " NARCISSISTIC RAGE".

I have endured this with my H and was trying to recover from him when I started to look at my son and the verbal, emotional, abuse I have taken from him. I got to tell you, wrapping your mind around the child you gave birth to, having NPD, I will never be ok with this. I have joked on here that they should be tattooed, so we can spot them in a crowd,  they should be rounded up and put on an island so they can't hurt people.Well I have son who is going to hurt anyone and evryone who gets close to him, including his 2 children he will not care about in a healthy normal way.

 I have been trying to accept that he has this for the past year. I am still being stunned by his behavior and the things I hear he is doing. Just when I think he can not top what he has done, he does. I am terrfied of what he is capable of and what he will do next. I just endured what will be my last rage attack from him, I will not speak to my own son again. It was frightening, no one should be talked, raged at, like that ever, especially his Mother, me. The contempt and hatred directed at me, took my breath away but I recognized it was narcissistic rage. It wasn't about who I am as human being, his mother, it was the lack of humanity in my son, what a horrible disorder, mental illness.

 My H was also on the phone listenting to him rage and kerflucking every other word, I had to hang up on son, my heart could not take anymore. My H stayed on calmly saying, ok, ok, right, ok, right,  then he said to son, can you stop swearing and be civil, a few more ok's and son hung up on him. I was upset H was calm and saying ok, right, thought son was still going off about me but he had switched over to beating his Dad. With N's there is absolutely no emotional meaning or feelings associated with words, the language we speak. He was calling his Dad a no good Mother Trucker, and my h is telling him to stop swearing and be civil. They don't understand the content of what is being said. Really, is there a civil, polite way to rip your Mother to shreads, call someone a no good Mother Trucker? His Dad is the reason he has that restaurant, he put all our money in it for him, he worked his azz off and gave more to him than my daughter or I ever got from him. My H has some kind of connection to my son and his cold Mother.  Wonder if they, on some level recognize each other. My H says he deserves what my son said to him. Funny, H could rage at me if I looked at him wrong, son says all that and he says nothing back at him.  There is a scale for mental retardation, IQ below 70, profound to trainable. I am here to tell you the EQ of my H and my son is profound, not even trainable, something in the brain went, very, very wrong. I have not talked to my son for almost a year, that was the worst rage attack I have ever experienced from my him, I get he has NPD, I get he hates me, and there is nothing I can do to help him. I can only pray that there is some research being done somewhere that will help him. I will never be free of NPD.I will not see or talk to my son again but I will always worry about my grandchildren and who my son is emotionally harming. Exhausted but picking myself up off the floor again for my daughter, she also lost her brother to NPD.

                                                                              Hugs mamolie 

 

#2

Its so hard isnt it? Not just having to take the emotional and verbal abuse, but trying to make sense that the most hurtful damaging attacks are coming from the person whom we love, and who says “loves” us. I imagine when you think about your DIL or your grandchildren theres also an immense desire to want to protect them from that kind of abuse. I lost my pregnancy with my exN/S, and I STILL feel that kind of protective urge and emotional attachment to any children he may have in the future.

What do you do Mamolie, with those feelings? How do you keep yourself sane in terms of that?

Yes I know all about the rages. I got one just about every weekend, like clockwork. I remember trying to describe what was going on to one of my T’s, saying all I knew was by the end I was in a crying heap apologizing to HIM…when he had just used his voice and his body to tear me to shreds.

I so many tim4es, wish I knew then what I know now, that theyre tantrums of spoiled, scared little boys in the boldies of adult men. I might not have felt so “battered” all those times. KNow what happened the one time I actually called it a “tantrum” when it was happening? Thats when he knocked me down, started to choke me and then threw a wardrobe over me.

Thats the problem with those spoiled little tantruming boys…they ARE in grown men’s bodies, with all the power and strength and potential for REAL injury.

And like you, for much of the first couple fo years I loved him so much I also thought all that pain came from what happened to him before me, so maybe all he needed was more empathy, more compassion, more support. How mistaken. I NEVER would have guessed way back then that he needed firm rules with boundaries, and very real consequences for his bad behaviour.

And in the end, as much as I admire women like SMG who can learn how to be that way in a relatioNship with a N/S, its not AT ALL something I want to find myself in. I want, need and deserve to have a relationship (if I ever allow myself to be in one again) where I dont have to be a warden, or strategist. Thats not my idea of a loving relationship AT ALL.

Its so damn unfair, the entire thing. That they are in so much pain, that vacuous emptiness and bottomless pit of need that makes them so needy of narcissistic supply, and so unable to survive any kind of criticism without feeling overwhelming shame and becoming annihilating in return. I cant imagine what it must feel like to be on the inside living that way through an entire life.

And it’s so unfair to those of us who dare love them, to have the most precious gift we have to give to a person be used, and emptied and wasted.

No wonder I most times, dont feel I’ll ever WANT to risk love again after this experience. And I was only with my exN/S for 7 years. You continue to be with yours after how many?

many hugs Mamolie

we should be giving ourselves many many hugs after all that we’ve been through
and continue to experience

love should not have to require such heavy armour, weapons or manuals to survive

I know it takes two to make and break a relationship
and that we have our own issues to work through
and responsibilities to accept

but yanno what?

how were we ever to know what we were dealing with?
or how on earth to deal with it constructively
(if it ever can be dealt with successfully)

narcissistic rage is abuse
I dont know how anyone can rationalize it as anything other than abuse

hugs hugs hugs Mamolie

youre a survivor

#3

hey ladies xx

mamolie, I am sorry that you had to endure a sick tirade. What sparked it off? You say you will never speak to him again, and I reckon that makes you a brave lady. I know it will be a terrible heartbreak to have let go of him, and a heartreak that can never leave you or be taken away or replaced.

The terrible thing is how this condition can create such teriible consequences and embroil us into those consequences, a mother without a son, lost to NPD. A son without a mother, heading down the road of self destruct, feeling responsible for none of it.

I wish I knew what to say, and I wish I did not share the pain of this, I am in contact with y daughter quite a lot at the moment, her fatehr is using her to get at me, but she kinda sees that. I have written to her confirming a few facts and said to her that I can not be involved with her and her father, having been removed from that particular dimension a long time ago. My family is so messed up by NPD. Like you, I have to be brave, I have to endure the pain, and try to stay strong in the face of much bizarre adversity.

We are a few weeks from court now. Temperatures will be rising, and bills will be soaring. I have to empoy some tactics, against the better judgement of my legal team, who want to play the game their way, the normal way, and the unproductive way.

My daughte is a huge worry. Huge. But I can only wait and see, and fight each battle as it comes my way. I feel so much better in myself than I have for about 4 years now. I cant tell you what a relief it is to get up of a day, yes, with burdens, but with many elements of peace and calmness and, yes, sometimes joy. I see and I feel a future.

Mamolie, i hear your heartbreak and hurt, and I do hope you manage not to let this bring you down too much. Not now. You have things to do, and spring is coming. You have a future, we all do, despite this thing. This is something that you do not have the power to change. My friend and I often speak about there perhaps being a bigger reason why we each had a child of a certain type, and also had each other, the only other who understood. There is no question that NPD is a serious handicap. Not physical, not even mental, a personlity handicap, that society just does not get. But one day it will. It has to. Because it IS real, and it does count, and it does have serious consequences. Our society facilitates it, and it is breeding out of control.

I hear NPD mentioned in songs, on soaps and in magazines. It is creeping into our dialogue. It is only a matter of time.

Thanks for sharing with us. And my heart goes out to you, and to your son, his children, partner and your daughter. He cant control this, he cant change it, and thats the really hard bit. It is just a fact of life. A nasty horrible and largely incomprehensible one, but a fact none the less. We HAVE to keep standing tall, doing the best we can, finding pleasures, and working to make the best of what our lives have to offer

love nic

xxxx

#4

Nick wrote:
“We HAVE to keep standing tall, doing the best we can, finding pleasures, and working to make the best of what our lives have to offer”

so very true
in the end
thats really what we’re left with isnt it?

when its all boiled down
if we had to make all of our experiences, pain, fear, grief, clearing away of all of the confusion
into just one sentence

thats what we’d say, isnt it?

thankyou Nic

#5

Hi There. =C2=A0Its funny that I should get your post today. =C2=A0Its been=20=
almost seven months now and still I found myself this morning sitting on the=
side of the bed crying. =C2=A0Not for him, mind you, but for my own losses.=
While it was all pretense, the loss of who I used to think he was, the loss=
of a husband, the loss of so many hopes and dreams and plans all now trashe=
d after I saw him for what he really is. =C2=A0I think that my N too held hi=
s silence for a very long time before things erupted into violence. =C2=A0It=
was only after I caught him in a lie that I could prove that he turned into=
something very much like a devil. =C2=A0I could see him sitting and seethin=
g some nights and did not know why. =C2=A0I still struggle. =C2=A0It still h=
urts. =C2=A0I no longer miss him. =C2=A0I found out of recent that while we=20=
were still together, that he went onto =C2=A0a very explicit dating website=20=
and listed his marital status as widowed. =C2=A0I guess that I had already b=
egan to become " dead" in his mind. =C2=A0That made me so angry that I think=
that I just finally stopped caring at all. =C2=A0There I was busting my tai=
l to earn a living while he was home all day, drinking and lying about it an=
d cruising the internet for women. =C2=A0 Up until then I think that I thoug=
ht of him as just some kind of broken person. =C2=A0Now I know better. =C2=
=A0He has a court date on Feb. 23 for an arraignment on the child molestatio=
n charges. =C2=A0Its just one step. =C2=A0It me
ans that they will ask him if he pleads guilty or innocent. =C2=A0Of course,=
I am sure in his own mind, he is innocent because after all, he is “entitle=
d” to do whatever he wants. =C2=A0I do know that he is living with his ex wi=
fe and her husband and their 2 adult children and his former mother in law.=20=
=C2=A0They have all sided with him as being some kind of victim in all of th=
is. =C2=A0 Its a very dysfunctional situation I’m sure. =C2=A0I don’t know t=
hat he will ever be able to get a job because he has booked 13 times on DUI=20=
charges and now has been indicted. Even McDonalds does a background check th=
ese days. =C2=A0 Some days the hurt is as fresh as if it had happened yester=
day. =C2=A0Sometimes it seems like his ever being here was all a bad dream.=20=
=C2=A0I have learned to survive. =C2=A0I am learning to heal but I think its=
going to be years before I will be ok if ever.

Blessings to you all,

Leele

-----Original Message-----
From: kerfuffle npd-fft-11642@lists.fireflyhealth.org
To: ladyleelee911@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 6:46 pm
Subject: Re: [npd] Narcissistic Rage

#6

Nic you said:
“it is easy for me to be excited and to feel clean and dare I say it, almost focussed and trusting myself, my judgements and my feelings.”

Thank gawd…really…that we found our way through the mire of pain, hatred, confusion and grief that we can say these words.

And how miraculous that someone like Mamolie, despite the ongoing dramas can find or create or hold onto longer and longer moments of her own sanity and normalcy in her own spirit and heart.

I dont mind sharing my experiences anymore although my need to vent and to call out across the canyon is all but gone, but I know from reading your own posts that everytime there is forward movements, successes, recoveries, sparkles of joy and emotional freedom from the insanity, I had my hope renewed, I had a little more, and a little more fuel added to my belief that I would indeed come out the other side and be able to reclaim my emotional life again…because you too were finding your ways there.

So can I indulge myself a little right here? to again express my gratitude for you both, and the other voices who posted while I’ve been a visitor in this place.

If nothing else, the sense you gave of me not being alone…and the reality that there is always hope that something better lies ahead (and inside) was, and continues to be invaluable.

#7

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#8

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#9

yes I get that
our children are our future walking ahead of us

theyre not us
but theyre of us

and so we’re emotionally invested in them
no doubt about it

like the spiritual bank in which we’ve made our most important investments

we dont want them to go spiritually bankrupt :frowning:

#10

 Wow last night, this site was messing with my mind, my post said 2 hours ago, everyone else who responded, said LAST FRIDAY, WHAAAAAT????? Good thing I am already crazy.

Welcome, Steven, I don't know what happened there, I don't have a decoder ring, please try again, interested in what you have to say.

Lelee, your post a little confusing but I could at least make sense of your post . I feel bad for you, I know how hard this is, don't give up on yourself. There are no short cuts, just keep moving forward, you will eventually start to feel better. phoenixxx is our success story, she was very IMPATIENT and did not believe she would ever be ok but she is. I don't think we can ever be the same but we can move on and get back into life.

The problem, if you want to call it a handicap, THEY DON'T KNOW they have one and neither do the rest of us! For me I think it is far more sinister than a handicap.

 I read some where this is worse than being a prisoner of war, with war, you know who the ememy is , you know your a prisoner of war, you don't expect to be loved or treated well. This enemy comes in the name of LOVE , psychologically confuses and tortures you. They erect a MENTAL cage around you, that is every bit as effective as prison walls.

It  truely is psychological warfare, an enemy that invades your mind like a parasite, to feed off you and suck the life out of you. I use to say, we live by the golden rule, they live by the law of the jungle, I was wrong, even in the animal world, they do not prey on and feed off their own kind. These people do prey on and harm their own kind.  Handicap, personality disordered, much, much more than that.I wish to GOD it was that simple, that we could retrain or work around their handicap for my son's sake.

The terrible thing is how this condition can create such teriible consequences and embroil us into those consequences, a mother without a son, lost to NPD. A son without a mother, heading down the road of self destruct, feeling responsible for none of it.

For tooooo long "I" felt responsible because nothing I tried to do, no amount of talking, reasoning logic, worked, even getting professional help, nothing, nothing, worked. I went 3 times for professional help during the 12 years tied up in a family restaurant. Son had problems but the behavior just kept getting worse after the first few years. We were shackled in a hostage situation where his accelerating irresponsible behavior and spending could have ruined us financially. The loans were all in our name, retirement money, my house, could not walk away, we could have been homeless and penniless. Now I know, he would not have cared one bit if that happened, he would have moved on to something else.

 You just don't know what you are dealing with so you use human thinking to try to solve the problems and expecting that soner or later you will get it worked out. I was the peace maker trying to get peace and harmony but all I ever managed to get was a cease fire for periods of time and it would start all over again. It was the dualing N's, fighting for control and the N suppy of attention a sucessfull restaurant brought to them. It was a nightmare situation that my human mind could not have imagined or predicted. You would have to have knowledge about NPD, to know it was going to get worse and never going to work out. Not because of me, because of them and NPD.

 I didn't have a clue, just a Mother wanting her family to be more normal and care about each other. I too, kerfuffle, hate to think about the people who do not know the name for all their suffering, NPD. The choices are still very difficult to make when you do know, you have to get away from them. You have to go against all that is human, all your feelings, all your Mother instincts for your kid and get away from them or they will continue to destroy you. I hurt more for the good son he will never have, than I do for myself.

My son is 38, he will be 39 in Aug. He is no kid.  It sounds terrible to say you will never speak to your own son again, but he has NPD. I don't need a professional to tell me that. I think everyone who has experienced an NPD relationship with a partner, knows how devastating it is. It is worse when it is your son, not as easy to give up on and walk away but I must to save my sanity and life.  To continue a relationship with him knowing what I know, is inviting more misery and suffering into my life. A life already devastated by his NPD father.

 When your kids grow up and leave home, they never leave your heart.When they do leave home, you worry and hope they are ok, and many times better off not knowing some of the things they make it through. For normal young adults, making mistakes or screwing up usually has consequences, and for most, lessons are learned. I remember one therapists told me first time I went for help cause of problems with my son, 18, all your values, everything you taught them is in there but most kids don't get any sense till they are 26. I kept that in mind through more difficult times with him like magic would happen when turned 26. Well 26 came and went and his behavior was getting worse instead of better.

That is another thing, this starts showing up in the teen years, when they don't want to put any labels on them. They say their personalities are developeing. If anything can be done, valuable time is wasted, by writing it off as just, self absorbed teen years. Maybe the mental health professionals should discuss personality disorders so you have some idea that you could be dealing with more than a self absorbed teen.

I don't know what the answer is but there many more people than I are dealing with it. Maybe we need to put  as much attention on mental health as we do physical health. Maybe we need yearly mental check ups. Never mind, My H and Son would pass, I would not. Anyways I feel like I have a bad case of the flu after another rage attack from son, but I will  try to rest and drink plenty of liquids. One foot in front of the other, keep moving. 

Yes, phoenixxx, spring always makes me feel better. I love to see everything, especially my yard come alive and bloom. Small things in life, I remember looking in my back yard and the joy I felt when my peach tree after 3 years, finally flowered and got peaches on it. I watched them grow all summer. It is a small tree, didn't get a lot but I sure enjoyed picking and eating them. Life is not easy and for some of us, easy is so understated. 

A good does of medicine and sunshine for me , would be

                                      MY  STEELERS WINNING THE SUPER BOWL                       

                                                      GO STEELERS                                           

                                                                hugs mamolie 

 

 

 

#11

 

I hurt more for the good son he will never have, than I do for myself.

 MISTAKE THERE, WAS SUPPOSE TO BE    " I HURT MORE FOR THE GOOD "LIFE" HE WILL NEVER HAVE , THAN I DO FOR MYSELF.  

Tried to edit but it looked like it might end up looking like stevens post.

         Hugs mamolie

#12

Christian Bale

listen to this and tell me that doesnt sound familiar?

I listened to this 3 times, and marvelled how the voice was different, but the abuse was almost exactly what I experienced once a week or more…only mine didnt last for 4 minutes, soemtimes it went on for four hours.

What was I thinking not walking out???

Its hard to remember what I was thinking.

I can remember cowering under blankets, locking myself in the bathroom, dissociating, a few times knocking myself on the forehead repeatedly trying to drive out the words as he was yelling at me.

Hear the part where Bale jumps up from his seat and lunges at the lighting guy? ready to punch him out?

(teary) yeah I had that dozens of times too.

thank you gawd I am out of that

and I worry about the woman (women) he will do that to again.

#13

Ok, YEA!!!  STEELERS won the super bowl, BUT IN THE LAST 2 MINUTES OF THE GAME. Nail bitting, nerve wracking game, had to cover my eyes on that last pass TO WIN THE GAME, Wow sure enjoyed the replay of that one, but 45 more seconds on the clock and a STEELER interception to clinch the win. City had the parade for the champs yesterday, WAY TO GO STEELERS, now it is back to reality.

I clicked on your link yesterday, saw the bloody face, hear swearing and clicked right off. I was afriad it was going to show something violent. Last night heard Bale's rage on the news and came back here,  realized that is what you posted and clicked on again to listen. WOW, wonder what would happen if someone did something really wrong to him like,accidently pizzed on his shoe. It doesn't take much when they walk around with chronic contempt and anger right under the surface, waiting and looking to set it off on someone. I guess it is frustrating when people don't realize they are the chosen ones, special above all others.

Why didn't we leave, what were we thinking, thought we could help or save their suffering soul, didn't know they were enemy that wanted and needed our souls to survive.

 An enemy that uses love, empathy, goodness and fairness to invade and conquer. We sure didn't know that and sadly there are many more out there who do not know and are suffering the same thing.

I repeat below

 read some where this is worse than being a prisoner of war, with war, you know who the ememy is , you know your a prisoner of war, you don't expect to be loved or treated well. This enemy comes in the name of LOVE , psychologically confuses and tortures you. They erect a MENTAL cage around you, that is every bit as effective as prison walls. 

I have lived with the enemy, I have slept with enemy, I had children with the enemy, I have seen the enemy, Yet I could not pick them out in a crowd. They look like and act just like you and me but they are not. The question I keep asking , if we can't help them, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THEM? 

                                           Hugs mamolie  

 

  

#14

hahaha!!!

I was at a Superbowl party and was thinking about you often :slight_smile: Mamolie’s a happy girl is she?

I don’t know that I think my exN/S was at war with me I know for most of the time I was with him I felt like I was being looked at as the enemy, I even said so to him. And I remember a few times during arguments him saying when he got angry with me (which was often) he didnt feel love at those times, which boggles my mind actually. I dont think my love ever stopped despite how hurt by him or angry with him I was.

But I have had a few times in my life where I’ve felt so overstressed, at the end of my rope, and something small happened, like the cord for my straightening iron always gets caught on the handle of my vanity drawer pull, and on a day when I’ve overtaxed I’ve felt like ripping the cord out of the wall, the drawer out of the vanity and smashing the iron in the mirror (this was right before I ended up in the hospital this past summer actually). So I can imagine what it feels like when my exN/S (or Christian Bale) lost it. But its the ease, the frequency, the choice to NOT control that vile energy when its directed at another person, the propensity to look upon another human being as an object/target for their rage, ESPECIALLY when during times he isnt stressed or angry he actually thinks he loves me.

I mean, when I realized what crime he had gotten away with, I wanted him dead, dreamed everynight that it happened, that I did it, or that someone else would call to tell me he was gone…but I suppose thats the difference between a N/S and a normal person…we control our emotions, we recognize when theyre dangerous, destructive and we either lock them down or find help ASAP…we dont unleash them on someone else. I suppose thats our values kicking in, and our morality…and my exN/S prided himself of how corrupt he was, his theme song on his cellphone was “Sympathy for the Devil”. After he had read Nietzsche, he was enamored with the belief man’s only true and noble calling was a “will to power”, power over others, in any way he could get it. It wasnt true or noble to be kind or compassionate.

I’ve been thinking about my exN/S quite a bit the last few days and feeling kind of sad. I think it was listening to Bale’s abusive tirade, and then I watched American Psycho to remind myself what the movie was like (I had watched it with my exN/S so long ago but couldnt remember much). iTs the emptiness, the soulessness that makes me sad, its the belief he may never get his act together in his lifetime, its that he will most likely hurt his own children as much as his mother hurt him (or he hurt me), its the bottomless pit of hunger for more status, more wealth, more material things, more notches on his belt, more drugs, more violence, more power, more lies, more manipulation, more abuse…more more more. When will the insanity, the rollercoaster he kept blaming me for, ever end for him?

My relationship before him was not marked by that kind of dysfunction and pain. His was. I remmber him telling me that he knew it was over with her when he wanted to choke her. And ours ended when he did choke me. How many more women will have his hands around their neck? How many more years will he feel like his idea of women has been cursed by what his mother did to him? or passed along to him?

Geez, its so damn sad, when I think about what he went through as a kid (if indeed what he told me wasnt just another batch of lies). Its so unfair, the damage just keeps rolling on into the sunset leaving more injured people in his wake…and he may never feel satisfied or good with himself.

#15

There was a segment on CNN this morning about rages, specifically celebrity rages. I guess not only have Bill O’Reilly and Christian Bale verbally abused people in their rage and had it released on YouTube, but Etta James yesterday complained viciously about Beyonce doing her song “At Last” at Obama’s Inaugurational Ball, saying she’d like to whoop Beyonce’s ass.

It would seem more and more people everywhere are giving themselves permission to verbally abuse others (I know I was a bit shocked a month or so ago when I was verbally abused by a couple members on a forum here).

Are other people’s parents not teaching them about civility? dignity? or how about just not making oneself look low class? I remember my father, whom I never heard swear ONCE while he was alive, heard me say one choice word, and he said ever so calmly “you do realize dont you, if anyone other than me would have heard you say that, they’d think you were from the gutter?”

Do all of these people who seem to choose zero control over their tempers, who decide to check their dignity at the door and be as vile and hurtful to another as they can, being narcissistic in believing their feelings are the only important ones and others just dont count…think that elevates them as people?

I dont get it.

It just seems as each day goes by, people become more and more cruel, with more and more justifications for their cruelty.

Do you ever wonder like me, that I might be doing my son a disservice by raising him to be respectful, and compassionate and dignified, if he is only going to grow up to inhabit a world of barracudas who are only out for themselves?

…who knows…maybe having someone like Obama as such a visible role model might actually bring dignity and right behaviour back in vogue?

(just a little disillusioned after this morning’s CNN)

#16

Hi Everyone,

I haven’t had time to read everyone’s response here, but I did read Mamolie’s and I would like to respond. My heart goes out to you, Mamolie (and all of us here). It is truly devastating to say the least. And, back awhile ago, someone or many have said that no-one truly understands the abuse unless they are in the same boat. It is so true. My therapist said to me when I first started going, “It will take about a year or two to see things clearly, but when you do, you may not like what you see.” I hate what I have clearly come to see, what happened to my rose colored glasses?

Mamolie, I have been back and forth with my son concerning some of his behaviors. He is a wonderful young man, but too has a short fuse. He is not like his father in some ways, but then some times he can be worse. My son seems to have empathy, but would rather avoid the situations. It’s more complex, and now, at the age of twenty-six, I try to keep our relationship on a level where we all get along. His father is no longer a “topic” in our house. Both my sons are very much aware of their father’s narcissism, and my oldest son has a therapist and has discussed the topic. His therapist insists that my son is not narcissistic, however, he does have issues that may “mimic” his father’s behaviors; “learned behaviors?” I try not diagnose like I use to, as I could spot it a mile away.

Raging! My husband raged when I came home from grocery shopping and I called for him to help. I often saw his car in the driveway when I came home. I would go in the house, yell out his name because I couldn’t see him, and suddenly I would hear, “WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?” LOUDER than a locomotive, and the tone of that loud sound was enough to make me want to cry. This kind of behavior started early on into the relationship, and seemed to really escalate as he got older, advanced in his job, and felt that he had definately outgrown me; I was no longer good enough for him. He would rage over everything, and none of it was what I would later come to rage at------his abuse! His rage became so out of control, that in the end, he smashed his birthday cake in my face as he raged toward me screaming.

So Mamolie, you are doing the right thing keeping away from the behaviors. We know how much you love your son, it’s unconditional, but you must love yourself and keep yourself healthy.

I’ll be back to read the responses,
Mariel Lee

#17

You are so right. =C2=A0Its heartbreaking to love them so much and yet not b=
e able to be around them because of their toxic, often violent behaviors.=20=
=C2=A0I too wore the rose colored glasses with my husband and wanted to see=20=
the best in him. =C2=A0For years I made silent excuses to myself for his beh=
aviors. =C2=A0Its so sad. =C2=A0Today I find myself more cynical and less tr=
usting. =C2=A0I am divorcing my husband. =C2=A0For those of you here that do=
n’t know, I found out after he left that he had been molesting my youngest d=
aughter for two years. =C2=A0He was also drinking again and lying about it.=20=
=C2=A0He would get up in the middle of the night and drink and then go to sl=
eep. =C2=A0I used to wonder why he was so hard to wake up in the mornings.=20=
=C2=A0The last 15 months that we were together, he didnt work. =C2=A0He did=20=
get one job but he was always in an argument with his bosses about what they=
were doing wrong and how “perfect” he was at his job. =C2=A0At the time, I=20=
believed him. =C2=A0Now I know better. =C2=A0I too have come to see a lot of=
things already that I don’t like. =C2=A0Its been seven months since we sepa=
rated. =C2=A0I have discovered a lying, alcoholic child molester that is a d=
anger to society. =C2=A0We have our first court date later on this month.=20=
=C2=A0Its hard. =C2=A0Its very hard. =C2=A0But there is a secret to all of t=
his. =C2=A0At least that’s what I have found. =C2=A0Its in keeping the focus=
on ourselves. =C2=A0Taking good care of ourselves and doing what=20
we need to do in order to be healthy. =C2=A0I spent so many years trying to=20=
“fix” my ex. =C2=A0Now I have realized that not only is it not my job to fix=
him, he is infinitely not even fixable. =C2=A0So what do I do? =C2=A0I spen=
d time with my children. =C2=A0I lean on my faith. =C2=A0I do what ever it t=
akes to keep myself going and as positive and upbeat as I can while I go thr=
ough this process of getting my life back. =C2=A0No I am not the same. =C2=
=A0I have come to understand that even normal will be a new normal for me wh=
en I finally get there. =C2=A0I have learned to be much more protective of m=
yself and who I allow into my life. =C2=A0If you had told me seven months ag=
o when all of this happened that I would even have come this far, I would no=
t have believed you. =C2=A0But healing does come. Sometimes in baby steps so=
metimes in bigger steps. =C2=A0And some days not at all. =C2=A0But any movin=
g forward and away from such a deep hurt is still progress. =C2=A0 =C2=A0Han=
g in there everyone.I am thankful for all of you because you understand.=20=
=C2=A0We are all on a journey.

Leele

-----Original Message-----
From: mariel lee npd-fft-11642@lists.fireflyhealth.org
To: ladyleelee911@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [npd] Narcissistic Rage

#18

phoenixxx

Do you ever wonder like me, that I might be doing my son a disservice by raising him to be respectful, and compassionate and dignified, if he is only going to grow up to inhabit a world of barracudas who are only out for themselves?

No it is not a disservice, but YOU must also TELL HIM TO BE VERY CARFULL, THERE ARE BARRACUDAS OUT THERE.

Part of the problem is that many parents, lack common sense, are not teaching their kids manners or respect for others and their property. I see unrulely, illmannerd children in public places all the time. Parents shopping, eating, oblivious to their chldren running wild.

 Maybe they have bought into the idea, "it takes a village" and we should all be responsible for, take care of and put up with their precious adorable children.Not sure if I got old or manners and respect  have gone out of style , probably both. 

Also, is it the age old battle between good and evil??

Ya know, I taught my kids manners, compassion and respect for others and their property, on going lessons while they were growing up.

 While living the nightmare with my son in the restaurant, a woman came up to me and paid me the highest complimant a Mother can get.

At a Christmas Party for the regular customers, she  just had to find me to tell me that my son was the most mannerly, polite, kind, caring young man she had ever met, AND she only hoped that she could do such a great job with her two little boys.

 WOW, I thanked her for the compliment but in my head, confusion, I was thinking, I did somrthing right, but what is wrong WITH ME, that he is not that way with me. My H same thing, not as mannerly as son but always, what is wrong with me, that I am not treated that way.

Such confusion, is it any wonder, I don't know how I am suppose to feel about anything now. Such normal things in life and the most senseless behavior and actions thrown in the mix.

Yes, I have raised a lovely caring, respectful, daughter, she carries the best of me in her. I did something right. 

 I have also raised the worst kind of N, he will use the best of me in him, to fool and prey on others. I did something right, but something beyond my control went very wrong.

So what do you do, teach your kids, compassion, respect, the golden rule but  tell them,there are some people who do not live that way. Not all human beings have human feelings, avoid or run from them. I hope it is true that when enough people recognize them, something will be done about them or to help them.

                                                           Hugs mamolie

                                                                      

                                                               

 

 

#19

I can empathize with your pain and disappointment Mamolie. My exN/S was lovely to everyone he wanted to think well of him too…it made it easier to get what he wanted and needed from them (that they thought he was a great guy, gave him attention, money, favors, sex, drugs, whatever). Its what he did with me too, swept me off my feet, promised me he wasnt like other men, that he would never hurt or lie me, that he was a stand up guy and on and on. And he walked the walk as well as he could for as long as he could. I think they know what “right” behaviour is, they just dont value other people’s feelings as much as their own, so its Ok to lie to me as much as he wanted to if it meant he could get what he wanted without having to face any consequences, nevermind if I was used, manipulated, injured or confused.

But these public rages, filled with personal insults and profanity, meant to humiliate and injure another person is not just the providence of N’s or S’s, it seems to be a virus spreading just about everywhere now. And its justified by a whole littany of reasons, msot clear of which is “well I feel better now”. Which really is narcissistic behaviour and thinking from those who most likely arent narcissists, just regular folk for the most part, who are starting to believe that whatever they want to do or say that would make them feel better is acceptable, nevermind the cost to the other person.

And I strongly suspect the more regular folk do it, the worse it will get with those with malignant narcissism, the more justified regular folk will be and on and on the vicious cycle goes. And I “get it”. Just on this forum I had to maintain composure and civiulity and respectful behaviour because thats, I dont know, ingrained as my value system, but I felt the temptation to return viciousness with viciousness grow as time went on.

And I’m no narcissist.

Its like a virus isnt it? seems like its spreading.

and really…we live in such a spoiled society, overflowing with riches we dont even seem to recognize as we altogether float through this recession. We still dont know what it means to starve or live in fear of war. And yet we become more and more “entitled”, angry, ill-behaved, expectant and attacking of others.

sheesh

how on earth did we come to believe we deserved to act that way?

or what I also noticed just recently…how is it our culture became one where we value the feelings of the attacker more than those of the attacked? They seem to get all the empathy,compassion, support…poor guy…poor gal.

while the people they injure and use and roll over and attack are left in their confusion wondering what the hell happened.

…and having to deal with the frustration and resentment that everything seems backwards when the attacker gets the TLC and the victim none at all.

I hope youre right, I hope education will continue and people will come to understand how we have it all wrong.

As it stands now though, I’m starting to feel its going to get a helluva lot worse before it gets any better.

#20

“I’m walking a straight line in a crooked world.” - Obama