Toughness and standing up for yourself

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

Not to imply standing up for yourself is a sign of damage, but in my own personal struggle my own toughness seems to be a cover up for something more severe.

I watched an internet video yesterday, which was quite silly. Most peoples responses were positive and filling with joy. Strangely though, it made me cry. I watched it and tears rolled down my face. Thats really odd for a multitude of reasons. For starters, I don’t cry… I haven’t had tears in forever. Secondly, its just odd to have some emotion welling up inside and not have a clue where it comes from or what it means.

Its just a strange observation. I welcome the event and the opportunity to explore, but I’m clueless about it. Its just some innocence lost… some damaged piece of me looking for a way out.

#2

(big smiles)

and how often do we get to witness people being unabashedly exhuberant?

its a beautiful thing

#3

wow

I have those moments often, but then I get moved to tears by mere beauty often too.

It obviously touched you somewhere soft and vulnerable.

I agree that being tough is armour of sorts. I’d much rather be a force to be reckoned with in battle than a coward in retreat. But then I come from 2 warrior parents so I either get a lot of mine through genetics or the culture in my home.

There’s also that not all, but most men get anrgy in response to their sadness, while most women get sad in response to their anger.

I was victimized when I was 12, didnt fight back, and cried…for a long time.

When I was victimized 10 years ago, I flew into a rage, tried to kill the f’er and walked away feeling like a superhero able to save damsels in distress – ME.

I think toughness comes to us in a number of ways, and for a number of reasons. My son is a great kid, confident in athletics, art, music and academics. He is also polite, helpful, shares, laughs easy, makes friends easy (where’s the wood I have to knock for luck?). He isnt a tough kid and thats easy to see in his face. But I saw him once get picked on by a bully kid (the son of a friend of my exN’s, how ironic is that?) and my son suddenly came out kicking and punching!!!

Now, I didnt teach him that, I dont push the warrior thing on my kid, I’ve been very conscientious about nurturing and cultivating what comes out as his natural apttitudes and tendencies. But there it was.

I was really proud in that moment, not because he could do his own share of damage, but because part of me dosnt worry about him anymore. I have this sense that in this world he will be able to take care of himself.

Maybe thats where our toughness comes from? a wellspring of somehow, taking care of ourselves…making sure that destructive person in our life, doesnt get to destroy us?

And how interesting that now that you and I both have the luxury of time and distance from those destructive people, we’re both finding the toughness isnt necessary much anymore, and whats vulnerable and soft gets to breathe now.

Thats how I’m looking at it today anyway.

thanks, interesting discussion.

#4

Yes, it touched me somehow but I don’t know how. Its not like its a sad video or something, but apparently something about it is to me. Maybe if I keep thinking about it I’ll figure it out.

I’m not sure why we’re so different when it comes to being a warrior, and I’m not sure if I ever mentioned it. There’s definately a part of me that comes into play that sees being a warrior as a bad thing. And I don’t mean its bad for you, I mean its bad when I do it and in the situations I did it in not relating to you at all. There are times I stood up for myself strongly that gave me power, but somewhere inside I felt I was being bad or being an N. Being like that gave me a comfort, a confidence, and a power that felt good and right, but somewhere inside something told me it shouldn’t exist. I dunno, its tough to explain. There’s bad tempers that run throughout my family line. There was a lot of violence and lots of rage. I suppose there’s a part of me that chooses to not give into it. I guess its a good thing that prevents me from being like my family was, but obviously it doesn’t allow to express things in a healthy way. The balance is hard to find.

I guess I fear I’m full of rage and its bad to express it, so I repress it. And I never feel it… that is until I’m backed into a corner and have no option, or get pushed to far. I fear for those who come across it, but thankfully, it only ever happens in a situation that its appropriate or useful. I remember my brother going after my mom when I was a kid, and before I knew it I had a metal pipe in my hand and sending both my brother and parents to their rooms. Thats quite a feat for a little kid.

But definately, all my defenses are quite useless in everyday normal life.

#5

That fear or avoidance of rage makes perfect sense given your upbringing. And fits in tightly with the schizoid aspect of just not feeling feelings, because if you did they’d have to go somewhere, either outwards (whats rejected by you) or inwards.

Most of my sadness is about loss, that I had it once and might never have it again, or that I never had it when I really deserved to.

forms of grief I suppose they’re about

saying goodbye to lost opportunities, lost relationships,.

I think defenses are like art, theyre creative ways in which our conscious and subconscious adapt to difficult lives. I suppose, a lot of good art, music, narrative is just that…expressions of those defenses, those pains, longings. Theyre neurotic when we still have them in situations that dont warrant them –

when we’ve lost our ability to be full and flexible and fluid –

when we’ve reduced and restricted ourselves so that we’re walking defenses.

Choice…that theme of free will again.

As a side note, I’m feeling quite different posting about these things, my emotional level is really reduced. I’m able to talk about it like its a movie or biography, rather than feeling the familiar emotions flooding through my body and face. I’m really relieved about that.

#6

It could be fear I suppose, but I don’t perceive it that way. Its good to know the things exists in there somewhere rather not existing at all. It’d be nice to find that balance between not letting rage take over and experiencing a healthy anger. I guess growing up the way I did didn’t teach me where that line should be. I think in some way they get experienced and directed inwards in some form. Maybe the feelings always go somewhere.

Most definately though, there’s tons of defenses I have from childhood that just don’t work well in adulthood.

#7

wastedyouth…for all its worth,do you think that perhaps you were crying because you didnt feel moved/happy able to allow yourself to feel those positive emotions?
I only say that because in N relationships…it never payed to show positive emotion…it was soon reduced to a negative’experience"
Just a thought.

#8

Not very often at all. I just don’t pay a lot of attention to the world around me. I might be out of my box lately though, watching the Olympics and all. More often than not I just see the negatives. I’m upset with China for digitally altering reality and yanking the little singer from the opening ceremonies because she doesn’t fit an image. I wouldn’t be surprised if they got that from the USA. I hate the message being sent that you are under par and not cute enough, talented enough… and the ideal image of the perfect human being has become so out there that its only possible through things like Photoshop.

So its really great to see art with some average person pulling of something extraordinary.

#9

I’m not sure I understand the question. Was I sad because I didn’t feel able to feel anything positive about the video? I don’t think so.

Honestly, for all I know they were tears of joy and not sadness, just the music, or some element in the video. Its just weird because its not like me to get emotional or touched over things these days.

Its worth a watch though… highly entertaining.

#10

hey!

I’ve been there too! (haha well, some of those places)

WYouth I got teary too –

when the wave crashed over him

when he danced in sync with the Bollywood troupe…

for me its the beauty I’ve talked about…when people are just so in their natural human beauty … I get moved.

I dont know if thats what it is for you…but I get moved by human beauty alllllllll the time :slight_smile:

thanks for sharing!

cheers

#11

fascinating…wastedyouth…perhaps it triggered how you feel inside…but this is repressed?
whatever…that can only be a good thing.
Freuds relief theory on laughter(as you probably know)is that psychic energy is saved,and that energy used to repress hostile feelings can be released in laughter"perhaps your response was something similar…only it came out in tears??

#12

You’re welcome phoenix… I’m sure my reaction to it is normal… its being normal thats abnormal for me =) It is a great video, and he’s got another of the outtakes that didn’t make the cut thats pretty funny too.

I couldn’t say what it is that moved me about it, but it is compelling. Its just some silly dancing but its nice to see people out there creating nice things as opposed to what the N’s are there doing. I don’t normally look at society and think of them as getting it right.

#13

I laughed a little at this comment:

 the ideal image of the perfect human being has become so out there

Most of classical Greek, Roman and Renaissance art was about the ideal image of the perfect human being...and the models for that came from -- ta da --

 Olympic athletes.

 

I think the Olympics is wholly about the ideal image, whether its Beijing or Vancouver.  Ideal human forms performing in an ideal way, ideal architecture, ideal PR...

I get what you're saying.

 

But I also understand the Beijing Olympics is a "production", on an epic scale.  Where the Hell is Matt is folk art...damn fine folk art, but folk art nonetheless.

As an artist I like being visually and sensorily dazzled just as much as I do being touched by the beauty of everyday humanity.  Photoshop, lighting, textiles, music, movement, camera angles, choreography.  Some maestro, some choreographer, some designer, some artistic director is making decisions on how to create the ideal experience for the viewer.  I can appreciate that as much as Matt and all his new friends on his gum salesman trips :)

 

but back to the topic...toughness as armour, and what softness lies beneath.  How are you feeling about it today?

 

 

 

#14

The nekkid ladies in Renaissance art at least seem more realistic to me. I wonder if the were adding curves as opposed to making the models look like they are starving to death.

I’m not sure how I’m feeling about toughness these days. Caring often leads me to get pissed off and its just easier to go live in some utopia in my head.

#15

haha

well women didn’t compete in the Olympics during the classical period as far as I know, but the sculptures of goddesses were made in the image of real Greek women they considered the ideal female form, and that was used again during the Renaissance…but lets not forget, ideal beauty has and likely always will be whats hard to acheive, and back then women were more commonly malnourished. Now when women are overfed (even though theyre still malnourished) whats harder to acheive is low body fat. I doubt the ideal will ever be whats common.

Utopia huh? all we can do is make our little slice as close to that as possible. Which is, I suppose, what my goal is today as I’m relocating furniture in my condo and looking through catalogues for a few new pieces, putting clean laundry away, making a grocery list and trying to schedule my social life for next week.

And oddly it all seems quite a lovely chore.