I think the word is “normal”.
blitzen npd-cpt6626@lists.careplace.com wrote: What IS that word for somebody who doesn’t care about anything that doesn’t directly relate to them?
Rene
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I know that (unfortunately), but APART from “normal”…
GD
You mean you were:
OR
OR
???
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6626@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] An Oprah writer wants your N stories!
Just sent this letter to a friend. I can tell that I am healthier,
can you? Sorry about Capitals, just a lazy typer.
I AM FINE ANNE. THANK YOU FOR ASKING. I WENT THROUGH PURE HELL THIS
SUMMER. BASICALLY I HAVE DISCOVERED A PERSONALITY DISORDER THAT RUNS
IN MY FAMILY CALLED NARCISSSTIC
PERSONALITY DISORDER. I AM IN MONTH 7 OF THERAPY. I GREW UP IN A VERY
CAUSTIC ENVIRONMENT WITH MY DAD. HE WAS ABUSED AS A CHILD (BROTHER
COMMITTED SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THE ABUSE) AND IT SPILLED OVER ONTO
US. IT IS A STRANGE TWIST OF ABUSE (SECRETIVE AND CALCULATED) TO
MAKE US FEEL BAD ABOUT OURSELVES (AS HE DOES ABOUT HIMSELF). IT HAS
TAKEN ME 39 YEARS TO UNDERSTAND IT. BUT IT IS VERY CLEAR TO ME NOW.
I HAVE NOT TOLD THEM THAT I KNOW AND HAVE SET A WHOLE NEW TONE WITH
THEM ( AND OTHERS, WHICH I HAVE ALWAYS NEEDED TO DO), AND LIFE SEEMS
TO BE BETTER FOR ME. GONE CERTAINLY ARE THE DAYS OF ME BEING NICE AND
ACCOMMODATING.
MY BROTHER JUST FOLLOWED IN MY FATHER’S PATTERNS AND REALLY HAS
CAUSED ME A GREAT DEAL OF SUFFERING. BUT I AM FREE OF IT NOW. I
TOTALLY GET
THE DISORDER (I CAN WRITE A BOOK ON IT NOW). IT IS HARD TO DESCRIBE
(JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TYPE OF ABUSE). BUT MY THERAPIST AND I HAVE
GONE THROUGH EVERYTHING WITH A FINE TOOTH COMB AND SHE ALSO BELIEVES
THAT THIS IS WHAT HAS OCCURRED. I AM NOT HISTRIONIC FOR THE HELL OF
IT. LONG TERM ALCOHOLIC/NARCISSTIC ABUSE CAN GIVE SOMEONE POST
TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, WHICH I MOST DEFINITELY HAVE. THERE IS
THIS FUNKY THERAPY THAT WE HAVE DONE TO CONVINCE MY BRAIN
OTHERWISE. UNFORTUNATELY I THINK MY MOM GOT THE BRUNT OF THE
DAMAGE, WHICH MAKES ME CRAZY. BUT SHE COULD HAVE GOTTEN OUT OF IT
SOONER. I ALWAYS KNEW SOMETHING WAS REALLY FUCKED UP AND IT WAS
UNEXPLAINABLE. BUT NOW I AM AT PEACE. I AM A TOTALLY CHANGED
PERSON, ALL FOR THE BETTER.
On Nov 6, 2007, at 1:21 PM, blitzen wrote:
(laughing).
Touché, “Rene”.
Sam
You can learn more about me and my work here:
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/indexqa.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/cv.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/archive01.html (scroll down to section
titled “Sam Vaknin, NPD”)
http://www.suite101.com/articles.cfm/npd (my journal)
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal1.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/sipurim.html (short fiction)
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/contents.html (poetry)
----- Original Message -----
From: “mercenary” npd-cpt6626@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] An Oprah writer wants your N stories!
I am one of the people who wanted more attention and awareness brought to this disorder. We need a new definition for domestic violence and this disorder needs to be included in that. I believe this disorder is behind most of the on going emotional and physical abuse. That total lack of empathy that you just can't put your finger on, but explains on going abuse. Physical abuse is bad but the pain and suffering caused by emtional abuse is far more damaging to everyone involved, especially children. We need to clearly define all the types of abuse, I have found that, indifference and ignoring my feelings and my childrens well being has been the worst abuse of all. It boils down to IGNORING basic human feelings and rights of others, they care only about themselves.
Living a life with someone who can only care about himself, no awareness how his behavior has damaged his children or me. The only explaination can be personality disordered. If you were lucky enough that the person you were involved with was not the father of your children, you are lucky indeed. Think about how messed up you are by your encounter, then think about the woman and children who can not get away from theirs or have not found the name of their pain and suffering yet. The women that did get away, but still have to deal with theirs, because of their children. The ones tied up in court battles over custody. they don't have time to recover from the damage done to them, or they don't know about NPD, yet they have to fight to get their kids. Imagine enduring life with an N and losing your children to one, and not knowing about this disorder. Imagine knowing and having to share your children with one as he runs a smear campaign on you. They don't care about their children or they would not do that. They only care about themselves.
Personality disorders definitely need more public discussion and awareness , information and education is key to making the best choices for your self and your children.Caring people can not imagine that there are people among us that can not care or have the normal range of feelings towards the people they say they care about .If one of the 5 therapists would have told me about this, I would not have had to suffer for so long. Even Mental health professionals need more education about this disorder. When you know better, you do better.
I want more attention brought to this because there are more women and children suffering that do not know the name or reason for all the suffering. There are children right now being damaged at the hands of their narcissistic parent, there are adult children trying to recover from the damage done to them and don't yet know the name for their suffering. I don't care who the messenger is, as long as the message gets out there. If it saves one person from enduring a life like mine or if it saves one child from being damaged, good! We should all care about the women and children that are caught up in this nightmare. We should all care because your child could end up with a partner like this. This disorder needs more public awareness.Possibly with more public attention, more reseach would be done and that would be a good thing also.In the mean time, we need to all be informed to protect ourselves and our famlies from these people till they find a way to treat and help them.
Blitzen WHAT ABOUT THE POOR SODS ALREADY DIAGNOSES WITH THE REAL THING INSTEAD??? WHAT ARE THEY??? CHOPPED LIVER??
I SAY, WHAT ABOUT THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN SUFFERING AT THE HANDS OF THE ONES WHO ARE NOT DIAGNOSED, WHAT ARE THEY TO DO? SHOULD THEY KEEP LOVING AND DOING TILL THEIR POOR SODS ARE READY TO GET HELP?
Do you have any worth while advice or you just like to tell people what they are not feeling or what they should be feeling or what is or not the cause of all their feelings? Telling us we are participating in a cult run by Sam Vaknin is rediculous. You do not know anyone on this board, You certainly do not know how we feel about our individual experiences, only we know that and we are entitled to our feelings and beliefs about what happened to us. You have no right to tell anyone they are wrong about their feelings.
I have to wonder why you have never moved on with your life, why you are stuck on Sam Vaknin. Why have you not moved on? There are times in life when you need support, everyone needs some one to validate their feelings and support them in their struggle to recover and move on. The people on this board do that by sharing their experience and feelings about what happened to them. This is a place where people come into your life for a reason, and then you move on, not because someone made you mad, you learned what you needed to know and you move on, gratefull they were there when you needed them. mamolie
Mamolie,
“This disorder” (aka Narcissistic personality disorder) does not actually have most of the attributes you (or Sam Vaknin) claim.
You are just abusing a term, and a medical condition to suit yourselves and whip up prejudice against guilty and innocent alike.
It also seems to me that as long as somebody tells you whatever you want to hear and agrees with whatever you say (and ideally does whatever you tell them to do) you couldn’t care less about how many innocent people get hurt.
Just like Sam Vaknin.
GD
mamolie,
If I had know then what I know now, regardless of the label, or Sam, I’d have suffered far less confusion, pain, self-sacrifice, and mind-fucking.
So on that reason for raising awareness I’ll back you up.
I dont really care what the label is, all I know is, there seem to be an awful lot of people who have suffered very similar types of abuse from whatever-disordered people these monsters are.
I wish someone could make the world fair…and safe…I think the people on O’s staff do too.
I suspect Sam’s motives are different, but they dont impact me.
Mamolie,
We all have to take personal responsibility for ourselves – the rest of society cannot lead everyone’s personal life. I really do not mean to attack you but you chose your husband and you chose the father of your children, and you chose to stay married to him, and you still choose to stay married to him. You have forever been trying to change him so you would feel happiness. Going on campaign against Narcissists and Abusers is not going to make him change either. You have to make happiness happen for yourself, and you need to stop making it conditional on one other particular person being the personality that suits you. In the words of Abraham Lincoln, “I reckon we are as happy as we make up our minds to be.â€Â
A new definition for domestic violence? What is new about that and since when was it confined to women and children? People have conflicts – it is part of human relationships. The first murder in the Bible is by Cain towards his brother Able – a sibling rivalry issue. With love goes hate, with peace goes wars. And within families and intimate relationships, everything goes on. This is life. It is delusional to think otherwise and that it can be changed.
Now if you educate yourself first rather than trying to educate others with your limited knowledge, and stop listening to Sam, at some point hopefully, you will accept the fact that there is no known cure, no known help for NPD. From all logical indications, it follows that such people are not chosing such behaviors. Otherwise, therapy would help. Hopefully you will realize and accept the fact that personality disorders can be caused by brain damage such as from concussions and injuries. There are over 50 medical causes of dementia with which, a person can develop a narcissistic personality. These include cancer, genetic defects, the effects of some medications, especially chemotherapies. Vitamin deficiencies can cause dysfunction of the brain and personality disorders. Alcohol abuse can cause similar personality problems – sometimes reversible and sometimes permanent. Some of the illegal drugs can do permanent damage to the brain and cause such personality problems. These people are not Abusers, they are not vampires, they are not psychopaths in the true sense of the word that society needs to protect everyone from. These are simply human beings within the spectrum of LIFE who merit the same compassion as you do, maybe even more!!
I think Blixen’s points about Sam have been made clear. He is not a reliable source of education on NPD, nor a healthy one. Nor does he really represent NPD. Rather instead, he misinforms and steers people such as yourself onto paths that are not going to lead anywhere constructive. He does not promote personal growth, awareness, nor maturity because there is simply too much twisted perverse garbage in his stuff.
You sound like Dr Laura Schlessinger!
susiejo npd-cpt6626@lists.careplace.com wrote: you chose your husband and you chose the father of your children, and you chose to stay married to him, and you still choose to stay married to him.
Rene
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so sorry....posted my message on the wrong thread....duh...CZ
Mamolie,
One of the things that has helped so many people who have been victims, become survivors instead, is to do something constructive with their having suffered tragedy.
They get laws changed, they go on a public speaking circuit to raise awareness, they write books, they volunteer at rape crisis centres or suicide hotlines. The list is long.
If what helps you to feel something constructive in your anger and grief about your own experience, is to help raise awarness then by all means, follow your interest.
Turn something horrible into something good.
In that way you do get to stand up victorious and beat back the destructive forces in this world.
"Personality disorders definitely need more public discussion and awareness , information and education is key to making the best choices for your self and your children" ~Mamolie
here, here! I'll back up Phoenix's post with a hearty "YEA!" Take your righteous anger and do something positive for the world.
Folks ask me why I stayed so long in my marriage and I tell them there were five reasons why:
I did not know about personality disorders.
I did not know about personality disorders.
I did not know about personality disorders.
I did not know about personality disorders.
I did not know about personality disorders.
Far too much pain is inflicted on families who are unaware there are mental disorders precluding healthy change. Even if we make the choice to 'stay', we can protect ourselves from undue harm by understanding our partner's problems! There's a lot people can do to stop the escalation of ego defenses by educating themselves about pathological narcissism (n-traits and even NPD).
Speak up and don't let anyone silence your voice again.
Hugs,
CZBZ
WOW Susijo!
That is some post…
I wish I had said all that…
Except to add that you reminded me of something an ex of mine (vintage 1984) used to say…
He always said that with his first and second wives, the biggest mistake he made was that even during the weddings he keep thinking how great this was going to be when he had just got her to change this, and persuaded he to take a different perspective on that…
He realised that was crazy because you can changedpeople, and you have no right to try…you either love and accept them as they are, or let them go.
He was right…
Shame he couldn’t really kick the habit, huh?
:o)
Anyway, in other news…
…as I get older I realize that beyond that…though there is no cure for who people are, there are plenty of “work arounds” for anything if you both have enough reasons to try.
The most important rule of all is…
THERE ARE NO RULES.
GD
Phoenix,
Why does someone else have to confirm what you know is true?
I know I didnt use the word confirm anywhere in my posts, so I’m confused.
what do you imagine I said in those last posts?
Yes, your story could very easily be repackaged for a show called “Women Who Go Back to Their Abusive Mates”.
wahela npd-cpt6626@lists.careplace.com wrote: I would not tell my story to Oprah. I think it would end up as a gussied up “Jerry Springer show”. they would not do it in the way it should be shown.
Rene
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I think public education is very necessary. We all agree that discussion with some professional who know about NPD or victims is very help for our recovery. For us, the survivors, it is also important to know what is going on in our life, how is happened, why is happened. This is the very first step for recovery. You need a reason to forgive your NPD and move on. (It is not their choice to be NPD. ) We also have to make sure not to make the same mistakes in our future relationship. Education and knowledge is the only powerful force to help us. Therefore, we also hope this will not only help us, but also help someone who has never notice this disorder.
But the problem is how many people are willing to tell their stories. This is a kind of very abusive relationship. We are facing a group of person who think they are perfect, and want to have a perfect public images. Is it safe to let public knows your specific stories? Sam has suggested the safety tips about leaving. Public explosure might lead to a potential tragedy. So be careful.
I agree with you smileagain,
But public education about facts like cold blooded, calculating emotional abuse, it real perps and effects…
Not “DIY diagnose your partner and accept Sam Vaknin as your personal savior”.
And an important first step in recognizing and rejecting cold blooded, calculating emotional abuse is to hold up the middle finger of your right hand and tell Sam Vaknin and his devotees to go forth and feck themselves.
GD
No, my story would be titled “Woman Who Walked away.” I was not dumped, I saw the light and walked away, never to return. And I have not been back to that area in over 4 1/2 years.
wahela