don’t let these people prey on your hope to fix him! they are lying to you or trying to con you into staying in the relationship based on what YOU have to change! haven’t you done that alredy? i understand your desperation in looking for solutions, in your disbelief that there really is no way to help him see that you really love him and you can be happy if he would just get help…but, it IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! the sooner you can come to accept this the better off you will be. it took me 6 months to finally understand what i am up against and I still catch myself hoping and praying. i know it seems impossible now but YOU WILL GET THERE! keep writing to this forum and reading all you can on N. try not to look for other explanations and just read on the n stuff. the more you learn and relate the more your inner voice of survival will grow and strengthen. you are a human being deserving of all of life’s gifts and love is one of them. remember … HE can NEVER give you this!
stay strong!
I CAN’T BELIEVE THAT I HAVE SPENT 39 YEARS BANGING MY HEAD AGAINST A
WALL OVER MY
FATHER AND BROTHER. AND AT LAST AN ANSWER. I THINK WE SHOULD ALL
FEEL RELIEVED THAT
WE FOUND AN ANSWER. MOST NEVER COME TO THIS PATH OF CONCLUSION AND
CONTINUE
TO BEAT THEMSELVES UP. NPD HAS REALLY RUINED THEIR LIVES, THINK
ABOUT IT, NOW WE HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE OURS. AGAIN MY FAVORITE
QUOTE FROM A FRIEND.
" YOU CAN’T CHERISH THOSE WHO DON’T CHERISH YOU." SAY IT OUT LOUD AS
A MONTRA. WRITE
IT ON YOUR MIRROR WITH LIPSTICK. FIRST AND FOREMOST CHERISH
OURSELVES…AND OTHERS WILL FOLLOW…YOU ARE ALLOWED TO
SAY NO IN THIS WORLD…THAT IS SOMETHING
ELSE I HAVE LEARNED, NO, NO , NO , NO ,NO…OR NO
THANK YOU.
On Oct 5, 2007, at 6:17 AM, jacy wrote:
Hope, I got married 41 years ago, marriage and family was forever back then, I put up with a drinking problem, worked on that, he did not get better when he quit,I did not know about personality disorders, Oh I knew something was wrong, but what. I went for help, I did everything humanly possible to work on my relationship. I tried all the things this person says to do, no one told me to do any of it, I was trying everything and anything to understand and help him, I knew something was wrong. I had the empathy of a saint for him, nothing worked, because my H has narcissistic personality disorder, nothing would or could ever help him, but a miracle, I prayed for Gods help, no miracle ever came. There is nothing you can do, he does not want to be saved or helped.My H took everything I had, all my love, hope, and years, sucked me dry and it meant absolutely nothing to him, He was entitled to it, he was special, I was lucky to be called on to serve him. I was the best loving servant he could have ever had, I don’t even get a gold watch for all years of dedication and love, I meant nothing at all, it was all for nothing, he could not love me back,ever. Do you love the gas you put in your car to get around, your love, caring, and serving is just fuel to keep them going, nothing more, they will go to another gas station or another person to get what they need. That is who and what they are, nothing more, please stop doing this to yourself. Work on yourself, take care of your self, you will find some one, some day, who will love you for who you are, you should never have to turn yourself inside to get anyone to love you. Hugs mamolie
Save for later reference! Forward to interested parties and relevant
discussion and mailing groups!
How to Cope with Narcissistic and Psychopathic Abusers
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq4.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily19.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily20.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/npdtips.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/5.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq80.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/4.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq75.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal56.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal68.html
Strategies for Coping with Abusers (General)
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse3.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse17.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse19.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse20.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse21.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse21a.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse21b.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse12.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse13.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse5.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse6.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily13.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily5.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily6.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily8.html
Working with the System and with Professionals
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily10.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily11.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily12.html
How to Cope with Stalkers and Paranoids
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse18.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse15.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse16.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily14.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily16.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily17.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily18.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse18.html
ABUSE in RELATIONSHIPS RESOURCES
ARTICLES
What is Abuse? The various faces of abusive behavior and coping methods.
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse.html
Spousal and Domestic Abuse advice
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily.html
Abusive Relationships Newsletter Archive
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/narcissisticabuse
“Traumatic Bonding” and the Psychology of Torture
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/torturepsychology.html
The cultural and social dimensions of traumas - Traumas as Social
Interactions:
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/trauma.html
The narcissist and his family - The malignant narcissist abuses his family
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq22.html
The narcissist in the workplace - abuse and bullying in corporate settings
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq81.html
Articles about verbal, emotional, and spousal abuse, domestic violence, and
workplace bullying
http://www.suite101.com/bulletin.cfm/9128/12848
WEB SITES and COMMUNITIES
Domestic Violence FAQs
http://www.suite101.com/topic_page.cfm/6514/2051
FAQs regarding abusive relationships and the psychodynamics of abusers.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/npd
Discussions, journal entries and links regarding the Narcissistic
Personality Disorder and relationships with abusive narcissists.
Emotional and Verbal Abuse
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/verbal_emotional_abuse
Discussions, journal entries and links regarding verbal and emotional abuse
in relationships.
Spousal Abuse and Domestic Violence
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/spousal_domestic_abuse
Discussions, journal entries and links regarding domestic violence and
spousal abuse.
Open Site Family Violence
http://open-site.org/Society/Issues/Violence_and_Abuse/Family_Violence/
Abusive Relationships FAQs
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/indexqa.html
FAQs, articles, chat transcripts and resources regarding relationships with
abusers
More Abusive Relationships FAQs
http://www.faqfarm.com/Love/Abusive/
Corporate Narcissism
http://www.suite101.com/bulletin.cfm/6514/10621 (New York Times)
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/corporatenarcissism.html (United Press
International)
http://www.nypress.com/16/7/news&columns/feature.cfm (New York Press)
CHAT TRANSCRIPTS and INTERVIEWS
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Personality_Disorders/Site/Transcripts/narcissism.htm
http://healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/site/Transcripts/abusive_narcissists.htm
http://healthyplace.com/Communities/personality_disorders/site/Transcripts/narcissism_workplace.htm
http://www.mental-health-today.com/narcissistic/transcripts.htm
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/71/81306.htm
http://www.healthyplace.com/Radio/archives/audio_narcissism_02-10-12.htm
http://www.natterbox.com/vaknin/vaknin1.html
Mirror, Mirror … (Toronto Sun)
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Lifestyle/2004/08/30/608650.html
The Infinite Mind Radio Show - Narcissism
http://www.lcmedia.com/mind290.htm
Listen to “Psychopaths in Suits” on Australia’s ABC Radio
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/mod/bbing_18072004_2856.ram
Or read the transcript here:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s1158704.htm
Thank you again and take care.
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “hopetoday” npd-cpt6202@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 3:47 AM
Subject: [npd] ANY ONE READ OR SEEN THIS???
I hope no one here thinks that I am bashing Mamolie! Mamolie is an amazing person!!! Mamolie is a rock and a solid place that I have been looking to for advice and still will look to for advice, I hope that what I said was not taken as an attack again Mamolie! If it was taken that way, I am very sorry!!!
Ok, I have read everyone’s comments on this… I just ask you to please read their new blog and tell me what you think and be open to it. I am not saying they are right or wrong. I am just saying “what if?”
I am not saying I am staying with my N nor am I saying that I am not going to run like hell.
i don’t know. I am in a state of total confusion and looking for answers.
that’s all.
I am not defending or criticising any person’s opinion or point of view. I am just saying… and asking if anyone has heard of this and what they thought of it.
i never knew what i was dealing with when i ended my marriage, i am pretty sure that with knowledge of npd i would have tackled the issue with my ex and looked for solutions based on my knowledge and understanding, when i discovered about it, and I would have looked at him very differently. whether anything would work or imporve our life, i will never know.
I respect and completely identify with your desire to look for solutions under every bush, there is something to be said for better the devil you know - am not sure what - cut theres something!!! Only you can decide how to handle things and what to try. if i were still married, i rekon i would be very tempted to buy this, in the knowledge it prob be a waste of cash, but wid argue with myself that theres more to life than cash!!
my ex loved me as best he could, i married him, had kids with him - my mistake - not his, did i do wrong by him if he did the best he could? I really dont know. I am in a different place now, i made my choice. Whether knowledge would have helped or hindered me, I will never know.
What i do know is this… i may be alone for ever and never find love but the frustration of banging my head off what was a brick wall no longer gives me a headache, life is not really any better (due to bad decisions!) - not yet, but i feel i at least have a chance, i lost that feeling with my husband.
xx
Hi - I am actually the author of the guide being discussed, hopetoday made me aware of this site and I was surprised to see my ad at the top of the page!
I understand the feelings of those who disagree with me. This is not a small problem and dealing with someone who is both selfish and cold hearted but who is happy to use you is devastating.
I am not however guilty of trying to sell something with lies or of preying on peoples hope. My husband HAS got better and it was not because I was patient or a saint - far from it! It was also not because I am really clever! What is remarkable about me (apparently) in personality tests is my thoroughness and determination. That sometimes makes me far from clever. I will stick at a problem long after everyone else has found something better to do!
The thing on my mind today and that I am about to write about in my blog at
http://www.narcissismsupport.com
is that despite the horrible and often unforgivable things that N’s do, it does take a certain set of developmental problems to end up living with or married to an abuser. I was set up for this by my sister who we are praying may finally have been institutionalised last night (she has isolated herself in a far off country town so I am not sure yet, but the mental health team said that they were going in last night) she has had both of her children taken away by the state and is allowed no contact with them and has sunk to the low of picking up men from her local soup kitchen, taking them home and robbing them of every last dime that they have pretending to give them cheap board and then pretending that they have done something to her and kicking them out. All of her neighbours have apprehended violence orders on her and the last time the police went to her place they sent 3 cars and 8 cops (does that sound like they might be scared of her?)
I grew up with her… She has abused me my whole life and I never got stronger than when I realised that I could decide ‘no more’ and that I was going to have no contact! So yes certainly there is a place for this.
My point is that until a person with boundary and self respect issues (like I was) deals with their own problems - leaving and having no contact just leaves you wide open to walk straight into the same situation again. I did! And between my two bad relationships I thought that I had ‘healed’. And guess what? I was wrong.
I walked out of the frying pan and straight into the fire!
Parenting your narcissistic partner (as I suggest in my guide) may seem an unfair imposition. But I want to be honest here, I had a problem too! Being fearful and anxious and working too hard to please people who had no respect for me put me in line to be abused not just by my husband but over and over again in my life. I got to a point where I realised the only way I was going to know that I was better was if I got strong enough to stand up for myself WITHIN my relationship. Trying to avoid what made me anxious had left me living in a small box. It was time for the little cat that ran away (or scratched and fought sometimes) to make friends with the big cats and walk tall!
As I got better at dealing with my husbands abuse and keeping my personal power and self respect in tact he started to change. That change has been remarkable and while - as with everone - there is still room for improvement (as there is with me too!) I value him now more than anything in my life. Before I used to wish him dead! He had looked down his nose at everyone his whole life who had tried to change him. But when I started walking the talk and making BIG changes myself he started to take notice.
I think that N’s respect power and I intentionally became very powerful. I was no longer afraid to call the police and in fact became friends with them, I learned how to ignore him and cut him off if I didn’t like where the converstion was going. I learned that I had a right to interfere with his affairs if they detrimentally affected me and the kids and I learned to answer the critics of my new course of action politely, admitting that I still really valued their support even if they disagreed with me.
All of this paid off for me. My life is not perfect but I can honestly say I have escaped from hell and I do want to offer hope to those who have the courage to want to walk tall and brave with the lions.
You CAN get completion with the pain that you are enduring. No contact does not always give completion to the pain. Being stretched out cold in the morgue after being murdered in front of your children is completion I guess. That is what happened to a women that I knew when things were at their worst with me and Steve. This was after she left and found someone else. That was part of my learning things the very hard way. Leaving is not the best solution for some women, it might not be right or fair but it is just the truth. I feel strongly about this because of how many times I was told that I should JUST leave, as if this whole situation and all of this pain that had gone on in my life was just that simple. That I should JUST leave was always said with a tone and implication that it was my fault, that it was really a very simple situation and that I was making something out of nothing.
If partners want to leave their N and feel safe to do so I certainly won’t argue with that choice. I do think, however, that the ones who decide to stay and who remain hopefull for change for the better, even in the darkest hours, need to be respected too.
I think the question really should be, ARE YOU DOING SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE ABOUT YOUR SITUATION. If there is a tiger loose in your house I say it is a fair call to either run OR fight. It depends on your circumstaces and the odds. I will certainly challenge those who will just sit and cry about it, without taking action. If it is just you and you don’t have kids well I guess then that it is your choice to leave yourself in danger. If you have kids however I think that you need to act.
I mentioned what NOT TO DO in my ad page which started this thread - because it is important to learn this first. You want to take actions that are going to make you safer and stronger. Learning them may take some time and also some cunning. But first make sure that you are not waving raw steak in that tigers face. A predator is a predator. They don’t need a reason or justification. They just need an opportunity. For now if you partner is in Narcisistic defense, he is a predator and you need to defend yourself. When he sees that you are no longer prey and that you are in fact stronger than him, and that he is SAFE, he may then start coming out of defence and you might get to like the person that he is underneath all of that protective cold and nasty armour. But for now don’t decieve yourself. It is going to take more than words for him to realise that you are not just another enemy in his life. I say that there is hope and a cure but I am not saying that it is easy or for the faint hearted!
I feel so deeply for everyone here. I thought that I was the greatest problem solver in the world until I ran into this one. It took me 12 years to soften my husbands heart. The things that worked in the end were completely counter intuitive to me. It was worth it. I wouldn’t have found the courage to do my own growing up unless I got put into such a bad position. Like being on the top floor of a building that is burning and finally you just have to jump. But surprise surprise after I jumped I found I had wings!!!
Have a magic day and keep facing your fears and growing. Life is long and worth every moment!
Kimco, thank you for shedding light on the possibility of a different perspective here. I have been w/ my by for about 15 months…the first 6 -9 months were quite the roller coaster ride…he is not physically abusive, just a lot of confusion, manipulation, mind games, and staunch defenses that were infuriating. I think what you are saying is very very true. You HAVE to have a strong sense of self first if you think you are going to try to contend with issues of this nature. You need to hone your psychological and emotional strength the way an athlete would prepare for a grueling competition. If you are weak, you will go down in flames. I can tell you that my bf has gotten so much better. I give him credit that he always wanted to get better, was working on himself prior to even meeting me, and had acknowledged there were things he needed to learn and change. But when the power struggle ensued that comes when people become romantically involved, he went into automatic dysfunctional patterns, behaivng and doing things the way he had always done them…they way he had gotten away with doing them for years including in his 16 year long marriage. The difference is I would not put up with it. My position with him was constant…I love you, I think you are a great person…but you cannot do that to me and cannot act this way here in my life. It will not be tolerated. If you continue, I can still love you, but I will have to love you from a distance, because I won’t be treated this way and we cannot have a healthy relationship if you are behaving this way (lying, breaking trusts, etc) No relationship is perfect, but the biggest gift you can give anyone is to set boundaries with them and refuse to tolerate abusive or hurtful behavior. In the end, it is a gift. My bf thanks me almost every day for sticking to my guns AND not backing down from my high standards and my core beliefs. You have to be willing to loose them, you have to be willing to say NO, and face the fear that they may respond with 'fine, I’ll find someother woman who will think this is perfectly acceptable behavior and take me as I am." I have looked my bf in the eyes and said “yes, I think you are right, honey, I think you should find a woman who will put up with this, becasue I can gaurantee you I will not. if being w/ a woman like that meets you needs, then I really think you should go and find happiness and I wish you all the best. you are not a bad person, you are just not the right person for me.” Say it and mean it. I am a single mom, I’ve been working and going to shcool and taking care of myself and my duaghter my entire life. Did I want him in my life? Yes. Do I love himdearly? Yes. I hated taking such risks, it was the hardest thing I have ever done. Having him in my life ment love and romance and more financial security and freedom and companionship and all the things I wanted and have been looking for for 10 years. But NOT as the expense of my self. Taking this stance allowed him to 1) respect me me more than he has probably respected any person in his life and 2) trust me, becasue I was telling him I loved him, and did not NEED anything from him other than love and respectful behavior and that I was more than willing to loose him and all the goodies that go with him…if he could not give me those simple things. This made all the difference. I have also had to do a lot of work on myself, to devleop my own strength like never before, to face my own fears and anxieteis, and to deal w/ my own dysfunction that unchecked, plays perfectly into his dysfunction…fears that brought out the worste in me, too, things that took me off course and only made minor things blow up out of poportion. It’s hard work. But if you are in a relationship or relationship(s) like this…there’s a reason for it. The work always starts with YOU…not the other person. Look to yourself first. Save yourself first. He may choose to crawl into the life raft with you. If not, you sail on to find calmer seas.
Some would say it is possible with time, a great deal of honesty and
communication to work through emotional manipulation. Personally I
think life is short and precious - the only worthwhile thing to do
when confronted with an emotionally manipulative person is to BROOM
THEIR ASS TO THE CURB! A Relationship with emotionally manipulative
person is similar to re-exposing yourself over and over and over to a
highly toxic and potentially fatal virus. Each brush with it reduces
your immunity and weakens your defenses. It can take more time for
someone that has been in an emotionally manipulative relationship
(READ: ABUSE) to recover than it does for someone that leaves a
physically abusive one. At least you can name that punch that hit
you. Emotional abuse is subtle. It is insidious. It is dangerous. If
you are in it - walk away and never look back. Make it a rule!
On Oct 9, 2007, at 10:39 AM, smg wrote:
I think bup is right. Being in a relationship with a Narcissist is dangerous. It does take a strong woman to stand up for herself and be ready to let the realtionship go if she doesn’t get what she needs. I think women should be this way in all relationships, friends, family, etc. I stood up for myself and my N walked away. I wasn’t prepared for that but I knew it had to be done. I did it afraid because it was the right thing to do for myself. I started out in my relationship being strong and sure of myself. And as time went on I became worn down and worn out. I teetered on the edge of insanity and came back to myself and put my foot down. If you have an N who does not want to loose you or the NS you supply this approach may work. If he’s walked away from you again and again don’t even bother.
It was an exerpt from a website regarding MANIPULATORS, but I liked
what I read…
On Oct 9, 2007, at 1:17 PM, DoubleDee wrote:
Kimco I think you got very lucky, your H must have fell into that 15 % of abusers that could be helped, he was in no way a full blown narcissists. There is no hope at all for working anything out with a full blown Narcissists, ever. I am also truely remakable with my thoughtfullness, determination and empathy, knowing something was not right , did all the things you did and some, 5 different therapist,a marriag counselor, him two different psychaitrists, not one of them helped ,not one them mentioned this disorder.I gave off all the red flags, most therapists are ignornat to this disorder, and my H could manipulate and fool anyone and he did, two psychiatrists. I don’t even know what he could have talked about, must have complained about me, because there was not a thing wrong with him. I stuck with the problem and did everything humanly possible,I am not a quitter either, you can’t fix a full blown N. An N does not value or care about you, or anyone else.They buried their feelings so deep and so long ago, that no one can get to them, they are damaged beyond repair. Maybe you are just a little confused about N’s and what is a full blown N, maybe you should say N traits or just your ordinary abuser, so you don’t give everyone hope when some are hopeless and can not be helped. If I could have been informed that people like this exist, people who can not love or feel and they need to steal and destroy your heart and mind to live, I would not have wasted so much time and life. The worst part is their ability to act and look human, they are not. If someone along the way could have sat me down and explained narcissistic personality disorder to me, I certainly would not have stayed and wasted my life on a person who could not love me back, and damage my children in the process. I probaly would not have been convinced at first that he could not be helped, but I would have known soon enough and accepted that there was nothing I could do, and saved myself and my kids. The thing that is missing that you can’t quite figure out ,is that main ingredient that makes us all human,“EMPATHY”, they have zero, so you can not have a loving relationship with a person who can not feel or connect to you, ever. You can not help, fix or cure a full blown narcissists. You need to run the other way when you find yourself with one, don’t have children with one, getting away with your children is another nightmare, depending on your N, some women do stay to be safe and endure a terrible life, some can get away safely and if they are lucky, the N’s don’t want or use their children to keep on torturing, some do and many have to endure that, nothing is easy with a full blown N. We need more public information and research on this disorder, because it is about destroying the lives of others. That is what they do, and they don’t have a clue they are doing it, they just do. We can set up boundaries now and know we will never be treated like that again, we just believed that everyone saw the world the way we did, treat everyone the way you would like to be treated, NOW WE KNOW NOT EVERYONE SEES THE WORLD THAT WAY. It is all about education and boundaries. You can not fix a full blown N and no one should have to endure, put up with or live that way.Yes I still feel bad that this happened to him, but his disorder protects him from ever feeling bad about anything, he lives in his own reality and world where he is safe. I struggle to live in reality and try to put myself back together, he has nothing to do, he has nothing on his mind or conscience, he is fine. I am a work in progress. No offense, you just might just be confused about narcissism, I can send mine to live with you if you want to suffer the experience of a full blown N up and close and personal, if you could fix him, you would become famous and a very wealthy person. You need to be very careful and much clearer, nothing you wrote would work with a full blown N , you will add more years of suffering onto someones life and possible their childrens.mamolie 41 years of experience, can’t be fixed.
Thanks Mamolie, I respect your position but I must clarify. My husband was a full blown N and his father was as well. I can go into the details of his behaviour in the past but I really don’t care to.
I do not think you have read my guide so I am not sure that you can say that you have tried the things that I am suggesting? The ones you list have very little to do with what I am suggesting.
I am not sayingt that you have not tried everything that you can or that I could have done better in your position. I am saying however that my husband has healed… and that yes he was full blown. I know just how cold hearted and cruel a human being can be. I lived with it for 12 years.
There are many experts who also now believe that N’s can be treated successfully, most don’t want the job though! The staunch opinion that this condition cannot be cured is held primariy by an expert on the disorder that is also a self confessed full blown N! I think that his own grandiosity should be taken into account. Claiming himself incurable makes his position much more dramatic! He obviously has an incredible insite into the workings of an N’s mind but I don’t know how healthy or useful that is for partners of N’s to spend too much time exploring when he himself admits that he has few answers!
I don’t want to argue this point with anyone. I just want it clear that there are other opinions that need to be respected. If you truly want to try my suggestions you can buy my guide at http://www.narcissismcured.com and then if they don’t work after you giving it a really fair chance I am happy to give you a full refund and discuss openly the problems that you had with them on my blog at http://www.narcissismsupport.com. If you don’t want to try that of course that is fine, but I would ask you to please stop saying that you have!
I am also unclear why you advise women to just run when you yourself have stayed in your abusive relationship for so long? What actions are you taking? If what you are doing isn’t working why haven’t you left?
Good riddance, “Sue” (probably another alias of “Kim” and “Steve”).
Narcissists often join lists with multiple identities and then all the fake
identities “support” each other and “agree” with each other.
See “Steve”'s reaction to “Sue”.
The next stage?
“Kim” or “Steve” or some other "member"will write to say that I am wrong and
that they know “Sue” personally.
Sickening. Narcissists are so predictable. They think everyone is too stupid
to see through their pretenses and lies.
Read this:
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journla67.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal75.html
Brrr… (shudder)
Sam
al Message -----
From: “smg” npd-cpt6202@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] ANY ONE READ OR SEEN THIS???
kimco
i am happy for you that you have been able to find a way to co-exist with your partner, because in my opinion that is what you are doing. in MY experience my N will never be able to GIVE the empathy and understanding that would be required of him to fullfill MY needs while I spend my days bending over backward to meet his. also, from what i have read, the manipulation and the mind games aside, n’s are not capable of maintaining a monogomous relatioship for an extended period of time. it is not in their make up. personally, i feel that there are just too many healthy happy men out there that would make wonderful companions to waste another minute with a man that cannot LOVE me the way I deserve to be loved. and i disagree with your assumption that the partner’s of N’s have issues to begin with or we would not have gotten involved with an N. ( if i misunderstood you than i apologize) i was a completely different person when i met my ex. independent strong and full of life, driven and ambitious. after 3 decent years, we got married. the last 6 have been hell. he slowly and deliberatley dismantled who i was in order to make him feel good about himself. i will not take responsibility for his actions! i have done that for too long! i take responsiblity for loving a lie and believing a lie. but, that does not make me a fool only a woman that has learned a great deal about a very devestating personality disorder! thank you mamolie for your words… you have gotten me to see what he really is and in the process you have literally saved my life!
kimco,
have you considered that you are offering hope to women who may be on the verge of suicide from the emotional and physical abuse subjected to them on a daily basis? will your money back guarantee be worth a hill of beans when these fragile beings off themselves after a last ditch using your so called maual? also, what about the women you are suggesting to stay and use your manual when they are being beaten by their n. will you go to their funerals and give your manual to their families? what credentials do you hold that you can write about and offer advice on a subject that even today’s psychologists, psychotherapists… etc. still have such little knowldge about? sorry to beat you up but in all honesty it really burns my rump that you can give these women this false hope especially when it is based on changes THEY NEED to make!!! is it always us that need to change… maybe you are an introverted narciccist and that is why you stay?
I agree with you Bup.Abuse is abuse no matter which way you flip the coin.Get and stay away from it!I also defend mamolie,she is helping many of us .We all know her story and she has suffered to the core of who she is.That suffering however has made her stronger todayWe have all lived with this abuse some longer than others.When I met my N I was at my best and strongest,at the end it almost took my breath away.Never will this ever happen to me again!NEVER!No man is worth living a life like that.If your not used to being around crazy and if your not crazy RUN!
Ok, I found this site and Kimco and I was very happy about it and wanted everyone’s opinions! I think this is great! We all need to realize that none of us has the answer and we all have original unique situations but with the same thing! Does this make sense?
What if every single person had a valid point?
What if we all took our own experiences and put them together to solving this?
What if Kimco really experienced a changed N? What if that was possible?
She said something that made sense to me and we all know it… we are in this siuation for a reason. And before this came up we have all talked about that. What do we need to learn from this?
Yes, I think RUN is a great answer especially if we are in danger!
But what about what I have been saying this whole time before I even posted what Kimco wrote. What about these broken people who were whole. How do we solve this?
How would you feel if someone broke you and no one would help you, they all said run.
I just am trying to look at all sides of the issue.
I don’t have answers and I am am in a state of confusion. I don’t know.
BUT I think we ALL agree on this… that we need to look inside of ourselves.
Now, Kimco, I know you do not like talking about what happened but I don’t think it is drudging up the past … I think it is a good way to help people relate and compare.
And say, hey I was in that… this is what I did. What did you do. Compare outcomes.
We are also working with no two alike human beings. On our side or the N side.
I know that I LET THIS HAPPEN TO ME! I am on MY 3rd or more N’s for BF’s in my life. what is up with that?
I am also finding girlfriends who are N’s
So… now i ask myself why?
So, here is my dilema, I am still in love with my N. As you all are. I am in love with him and he was more than a dream. Yes, it got bad… yes, he is an N. But… we are over and he says it is over and we are bound to each other with the condo, etc… but yet… I feel like we are still together. My issues… yes… but why is this happeneing? what is it that I need to learn? Is it how to be there for someone? Is it to be stronger? Is it to show the world that we need to stop creating N’s? Is it to meet all of you?
I don’t know.
I just ask, that every single person here … just thinks about… what if this is true. what if her N changed? What if more N’s can change?
What if we should not run?
What if we should run and then just solve and raise awareness to the issue and why this is happeneing and find a way to stop it.
No, not all N’s can be changed and I don’t think that is what she is saying.
I don’t think I agree or disagree with any of you. I think that I am taking it all in and trying to make sense of it all!
Every single woman here has hurt and we need to honor each other’s truths. right?
Maybe I am still being delustional? But what if?
I would love to know what sam or other N’s think. What about the N’s on care place.
What do you think?
I would love for Kimco’s husband to share his thoughts.