Codependency and women

In my journey to understand what I have lived through with a narcissist, and my part in it, I read that I am called a codependent, I enabled the abuser to abuse me. It is bad enough to wake up and ask your self" how you could let this happen to you" and before you can think it through, you are confused even more by having these labels put on you. I am also told I did not have any self esteem to let this happen to me.

Trying to explain one day to a friend?? what I have lived through, I was met with, Why on earth did I stay, they would have never put up with it, again back to me and something wrong with me. Unless you have lived it, no one can understand how it happens, or that it could have happened to them, had they run into a narcissist. These people look and sound like normal human beings in the beginning, then, the slow process of brainwashing and conditioning starts, you get caught up in their twisted reality and don’t even realize what is happening to you. You have a clue something is wrong but you can’t put your finger on what it is. No one has told you or warned you that there are people like this in the world, and for feeling people this is beyond comprehension, unbelievable. that someone can not feel, So if I had this information and stayed with my partner, and put up with the abuse and torture, then you could call me a codependent and enabler, I would have then knowingly chose to put up with him and his abuse.

Another point is society has defined my role as a woman and genetics assign me a nurturing role, we have the children, we are the care takers, there are a few women that abuse but for the most part, we are caretakers and society also tells us that. Then when we do our jobs and take our marriages serious, we are somehow defective, we are codependent, lack self esteem, and enable the abuse, when it is the abuser that is the biggest problem to society. We need programs even as early as middle school, to inform young girls and boys about all the different kinds of abuse, and reenforce it before graduation from high school and college, not only educate and prepare them for the working world, but also about the kinds of abusive people they could encounter in their jobs and home life. Information is the key to saving many people from abusive lives.

I did not go into my adult life thinking I want to become a codependent, find someone to abuse me and rob me of my self esteem along the way. I may have chosen the fairy tale, fall in love ,have children and live happily ever after, did not know prince charming was a narcissist, that was not in any of the books. Yes it is good to look into yourself and understand how it happened, know the red flags so it can not happen to you agin.

Has any one else thought about this?

Absolutely, I’ve thought about it. It was my need to be the nurturer(sp), my need to be the one that could fix what was wrong, the one that wanted to help and make it all better. And because I wanted to take care of him, love him, etc. I’m the one with the problem!!! It’s like…I have enough to deal with when it comes to dealing with his NPD, now I’m told I have low self esteem, a co-dependent personality. I didn’t start out that way, but believe I was gradually pulled into those traits as his personality became more apparant to me. I believe he kept tearing me down, ripping apart me self esteem, but by then I was so involved, I didn’t realize it was happening. Yes, I agree, it way my fault that I allowed him to continue to treat me they way he did…but it is my fault for loving him and wanting to take care of him in the first place??? Definately something I’ve been pondering over for awhile.

I think that I have this problem too. I loved my Narcissist ex-boyfriend very much. I still do. I tried my very best to be there for him. However, I’m sure now that the boyfriend before him was a narcissist also, and I refused to make the same mistake twice. Meaning, I wasn’t going to give everything I had for someone who had nothing to offer me. I always took care of me within the relationship. And this was always thrown up in my face. All my accomplishments, all the strides I made over the years without his help. So he belittled and critized, untill eventually I didn’t even know who I was. I began to resent my accomplishments and the responsibilities that came along with them. What I didn’t realize was that taking care of me should have meant getting as far away from a Narcissistic man as possible. And eventually my life became all about helping him. I gave too much money, too much of my time, too much of my heart and I was used and tossed away. You can say that if you loved yourself more, blah, blah. The lesson is realizing that I cannot change him. I cannot wait him out. Things will not turn around. The eternal optimist. The only thing to do is to get away. That is the only way to show yourself love.

Have I thought this? Oh have I thought this!
I was trying not to relive my mother’s past, “broken relationship lane” and was on my SECOND marriage by the time I was 21! So, I was willing to let it kill me before I thought I’d ever let go.
But then, I did, and found myself a wonderful life, full of peace and joy…but still never let myself totally move on. Once “Mr. wonderful” showed back up with all the signals of a changed man…what did I do but cave like a stack of cards!
But, what is it that tells me, “it’s OK, it’s love…you’ll never feel this way again”?

I hate it!
You are strong, and you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders…like my own narcissist’s father tells me…“You only let that big heart get in the way”.
Aargh!!!

doubledee - you are right. Love yourself and stay away. I hate the blah, blah, if you only loved yourself more crap. The N takes away your “me”. They demean, critize, and do whatever to take away your “me”. There is no more “me” to love when the N gets done with you. So, you’re right…love yourself by staying away.

Wondering, I just got the chance to read your message and I want you to know that i’m going to copy it and post it on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper and stick it over my bed. This way I will see it everyday and remember my mission. It is a mission because I’m all turned around inside. One day I’m all gung-ho and the next I want to pull into a ball and cry. I think your message will give me hope on my weak days. Thank you.

This is an excellent webpage to read about Co-Dependency. Sadly it describes me to a T. However, finding out the ex was a “N” and I am a co-dependent can only be helpful right? This has to be my way, my road out of this mess. There is hope, read this article.

I made an apt with a PHys for Monday, I think pyschotherapy could be the key. I think everything happens for a reason right? So I need to go through this, maybe I will somehow make a difference in someone else’s life. Who knows but I know I am on my way. Today, it was killing me to have talked to my ex “n” about our kids and he told me he had plans that he had to drop them off early. I SOOOO badly wanted to find out what his plans were and have been wondering if this is going to be the point where he starts dating etc. i didn’t call him back, i am sure he was expecting me to. instead I read this article. I just need to keep looking forward.

picture this, this is an excerise i keep doing. i picture the only way i can get across is to cross a rickety bridge way up high (i am afraid of heights). instead of crying and screaming and looking backwards and not moving forward, i just keep walking, i have to cross it eitherway, so i just keep going, it only makes it worse if I cry, complain or keep thinking of how scary it will be. So it’s the same with this stuff, if i keep looking back and wanting that loser or am scared to move out of this, i will only make it worse for myself right? so keep moving.

ok enough rambling, here is the link:

http://www.planetpsych.com/zPsychology_101/codependency.htm

Yvonne

My friend sent me that link on Friday. I read that page and I wanted to cry. Yes it’s me. I’m sorry but I am crying. I missed him alot this morning. (weak moment). The other women thing bothers me so much inside. I don’t know why I’m so suprised. He didn’t value me, and I stayed. It’s like I keep hurting myself. And he doesn’t value them either. It’s not like they’re getting some wonderful man that I never got. We all are exposed to the same piece of shyt person. And part of me feels bad for them because if I had no idea I bet they don’t either. I keep trying to accept that he never loved me. So I can move on in my heart and mind. My obssessive thinking about him is driving my friends and family crazy. They don’t understand because they see what an asshole he is and don’t understand why I keep making him something that he’s not. He’s homeless right now, and jobless. He hops from woman to woman’s house as well as friends. Using them for places to sleep while he looks for a job. Everyday, I put it in God’s hands and try to let it go. God will take care of this for you. Maybe God was just waiting for me to get out of the way.

doubledee - I can identify and sympathize with your “weak moment” I haven’t checked out the website yet. I think because I know I will find me there too. I’ve spent this weekend frantically trying to keep myself busy so I’m not constantly thinking about my “n”. I miss mine too…I know it’s crazy. It’s even harder because I don’t have anyone I can really talk to about this. My friends were duped by him and thought he was a nice guy and I try to tell them that yes he was, yes he can be, but the bad stuff outweighs the good and it’s the bad that he never let them see. I’ve told my mom & sister about some of the crap he did to me and at the time, she told me to get out, dump him, forget him. I couldn’t. Now that it’s over, it’s kinda like…told you so, why didn’t you dump him when you first told me about all the games. I hate knowing I’m so co-dependent. I just opens up this deep painful can of worms. It’s been a long, very depressing weekend…my N has been in my life up until Friday…to make a long story short… he moved in “the other woman” Saturday…the day he moved her in, he was on the phone with me in the morning. I just don’t understand…does he really have any true feelings for me, or is it all lies. How can he be on the phone talking to me the same morning of the day he’s moving her in. I just can’t believe he needs to be so cruel and feed off my pain. I hate this…I hate him…I hate myself for being such a weak, co-dependent sponge that soaks up all his lies. I think it was mamolee that said it in one of her posts…I’m still so in love with the man I wanted him to be, the man he presented himself to be…
I need to print out my post too…I’m having a very weak moment. I should be loving myself more, but all I want to do is love him.

Wow - there is a whole world of women like ourselves who love deeply and sincerely, give everything of ourselves and get nothing in return but pain. So very sad!! As long as we keep learning and growing and become the best we can be, they have not won. Actually they can never win because they have lost before the game even begins because they are who and what they are. They are truly to be pitied, not us. I for one will not allow someone who is an empty shell destroy me!!!

Well said, but easier said then done. If I could snap my fingers and move on from this I would. I would snap my fingers, click my heels 3 times, say a prayer, make a wish, ANYTHING, not to feel this awful pain. Day in, day out and even in my dreams. Forgiveness is my burden right now. Forgivivig myself because I had an opportunity to walk away last year and I was feeling great. And he came knockin and I though it meant something. Fear is my second burden. That I will never see him again, and that I will never be in a healthy relationship. The one thing I do know is that I can’t go through anything like this again. And maybe it hurts like hell right now and there’s nothing I can do to get away from it. Only pass through it. I promise that I will do the work on myslef that’s necessary so I don’t keep meeting these buttholes. And if I do I can cut the strings quickly for my own good.

Wondering, make a promise with me. Let’s get the help we need to stay strong and get away from the abuse of the Narcissist. I don’t know much, but I do know NEVER AGAIN.

doubledee - I read your posts and I swear it’s me writing them. I’m saddened by the fact there are so many of us, feeling the same pain. All the abuse and pain is what we get, what we deserve for giving your heart and soul to a man, for loving him with all your heart??? What did I do to deserve this???

Anyway…I will promise to get help…I’ve read several books about the NPD behavior, it has helped me understand him, but I need to work on me. I’m going to get Dependent No More and read it, hopfully it will open my eyes and help me make the changes I so obviously need to make.

I need to get this off my chest- in my last post I said that I talked to my N the same morning he moved in the “other woman”. I thought it might be the last time I would ever talk to him again. WRONG…he did what I knew he would do. Called me this morning telling me how great everything is. I was very magnamonious and told him how happy I was for him. I think I took the wind out of his sails a little bit as I wasn’t crying (for once). I see the pattern with him. He flaunted me in front of his last “target” and now he’s flaunting her in front of me. I feel so bad for her…she doesn’t know what’s gonna hit her. My mind wants to hate him; but my heart still aches for him. Why do I have such a fear of never hearing from him again?? It kills me to hear it, but it kills me even more to think I’ll never hear from him again. That’s the most pathetic thing…I should be hating him, but instead I’m hating myself for this sickening co-dependency. My next stop is the website the colorado Mom posted.

checked out the website OMG!! That’s me…now I know.

everyone that’s posting on this site…check out the Planetpsych site…this is why we love who we love. Paragraph five was really quite painful to read…it’s totally what I’ve felt about my N from the beginning…I felt like I was more in love with the dream of how the relationship could be (and what he kept telling me it could be, but never was). I never would admit to myself the reality of the situation…I kept hoping the dream would somehow just appear before my eyes. He kept wanting this same dream, it kept painting the picture of the same dream…and I, like a fool, kept believing in it.

GAWD…I need help!

Don’t you love how we all beat ourselves up for not knowing any better. What we shoulda, coulda, and wished we had done. Trying to forgive ourselves, for loving and wanting a realtionship, every human feeling being wants. Are you reading all the posts, we came in contact with a souless person from another planet, there was no way to know that, they looked and acted like us, but they do not have a heart, they are like the envasion of the body snatchers from another planet, they came to suck it all out of you, how could you know they walk among us. doubledee, wondering and neednewstart I wished I lived close by you all, I would come by weekly to give you all a kick in the butt ,remind you why you need to move on and give you big hug, cause I understand how you feel. You need to be “TERRIFIED” you “WILL SEE THEM AGAIN” not "THAT YOU WON"T. I know this hurts but you must believe me there is unimaginable pain in your future, they are here to take your heart and mind. If you were told that apples are poison,and will give you cancer and if you eat them, you will die a slow painfull death, would you eat apples. Think of them as cancer, and cut them out of your life so you can have a healthy life. When you girls have those weak moments, e-mail me I understand how you feel,I won’t beat you up or critisize you but I will remind you what your life will be like. You now, know that there are people from another planet, not many peolpe know that, spread the word, look closely at everyone you know the red flags. Hugs mamolie

here’s another good site that’s helped me understand the N in my life…groups.msn.com/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder

doubledee, here’s an excerpt from that website that might help.
Mourning the Narcissist…Q: If the narcissist is as abusive as you say - why do we react so badly when he leaves? A: At the commencement of the relationship, the narcissist is a dream come true (he was for me). He is often intelligent, witty,charming, good looking, an achiever, empathetic, in need of love, loving, caring, attentive and much more. He is the perfedt bundled answer to the nagging questions of life: finding meaning, companionship, compatibility and happiness. He is, in other words, ideal. (Again, this is exactly how my experience with my N was)

Losing the narcissist is no different than any other major loss in life. It provokes a cycle of bereavement and grief (as well as some kind of mild post traumatic stress syndrome in cases of severe abuse). This cycle has four phases: denial, rage, sadness and acceptance.

Doubledee - we need to get to the acceptance part. We need to accept who WE are, why we are, etc. and change ourselves for the better. We can never change them…we must change ourselves…because I’m with you…NEVER AGAIN!!!

I got the book on my lunch hour Codependent No More, by Melody Beattie. It costs about $16 and I found it at a second hand bookstore for $8. She talks about alcoholism but as we know there’s not much on the Narcissist.

From the back of the book:
Is someone else’s problem your problem? If, like so many others, you’ve lost sight of your own life in the drama of tendig to someone else’s, you may be codependent.

Also read: The Secret. I’ve found it very uplifting.

Mamolie, I am terrified about everthing. I’m terrified I won’t see him again (when I know that I will, I’m friends with his family and he has freinds in my neighborhood. One of my friends saw him on Friday!) I’m terrified what will happen when I do. Because I vacilliate between being MAD AS HELL, and reduced to tears. At least mad as hell is constuctive as far as keeping one’s distance. If anything it’s not so much wondering what my life would be like. Cause I know it would be hell. But somehow I slip back into the fantasy of would could have been. Knowing that he sabotages his life and did his best to sabotage mine. I bought a house in PA and he was gonna help me fix it. We talked about flipping houses and building a business and a life and this was only 3 months ago. He would rather be homeless and jobless than build a life with me? Then there’s the other women so he was never committed in the first place? CONFUSED and DISSAPOINTED. ANGRY and USED. Then I’m trying desperately to pull all my energy back into helping myself. I think I’m just impatient. I don’t want to have any of these negative feelings towards myself. I don’t want to torture myself. And I know he’s not sitting around torturing himself about me. I don’t want to waste anymore of my valuable time with this. If only I could snap my fingers. Joyce Meyer gave me this scripture today:

Zechariah 9-12
Return to your fortress, O prisoners of hope; even now I announce that I will restore twice as much to you.

Translation (for those who need it)
If you do not loose hope and you do not loose faith I will restore 2x’ what you have lost!

I am a prisoner of hope, or I wouldn’t be on this website. Bring it on God! Bring it on!

Mamolie, I think it’s really hard for me to grasp what a scumbag the Narcissist really is? I need to work on that. HARD, Because I’m still blaming myself.

Wondering, When I really begin to understand what a scumbag the Narcisssit is that will go a long way toward my acceptance. I know that I’m a good, loving, caring, person. But there’s a point where a boundary is breached. And that’s when I get in trouble.

I am learning that we cannot put our faith trust and future in people, we
can only trust in the LORD for HOPE.

It would be easy to walk away from a husband, or a friend or co-worker but
there is real pain when the person you have given birth too just throws you
away.
Mother-hood doesen’t come with directions. I did the best I could. I
sacraficed my life for this child. And this is what I get in the end??? Its just
so sick.
Its demonic. Now I can’t even be involved with my grandchildren.

I was also married to a narcissist, I lived through 12 years of pain with
him. no wonder I use to think that he and my daughter had the same behavior. (
not her father) I knew nothing about this mental illness untill the past few
years when it just kept getting worse and worse, or should I say, when I
decided I couldn’t take anymore of this verbal, mental and emotional abuse with
my daughter.

I must pray for God’s intervention for divine healing and miracle.

blessings
kathy

************************************** See what’s free at http://www.aol.com.

For me its much harder to come to grips that my own flesh and blood hates me
!!

I am praying that when she sees that I am leaving her alone, that she will
come to some sort of realization that she just dumped her mother.

As far as my ex husband, that pain was nothing compared to my only child !!!

blessings
kathy

************************************** See what’s free at http://www.aol.com.

doubledee—ditto on your last post. I feel the same way. So much so, it’s just plain freaky. There are boundaries and I seem to have the same problem as you…where do they stop. I give until it literally hurts and what do I get but a scumbag narcissist that’s an emotional wasteland. You wouldn’t reccomend Co-dependent No More…it’s more for the alchoholic situation??? I’m seeing a counselor on Monday…I’m going to just talk it out with him…I’m tired of reading…I’ve got a good enough idea about what’s messed up about him…I need to fix ME!! I don’t care what it costs, I have to gaurantee myself that I will be able to recoginize the red flags and be strong enough to walk away from the person that’s waving those flags. Come on double dee…WE WILL SURVIVE THIS. I really do wish you weren’t in PA.

mamolie—I agree with your post. We didn’t know what or who we were going to be dealing with, so why do we continually beat ourselves up over being a loving and caring person and wanting what everyone wants? We should be questioning ourselves as to where the boundaries are…don’t give until it hurts. I do wish we were all closer and could give each other the hugs and kicks in the butt we need. Your posts have been a tremendous support for me. You seem to either be out of your N situation, or dealing with it very well. I’m getting there; the fear of him not calling or ever seeing him is gone. When he calls now I just have to kind of step back and laugh. I read on a website somewhere that if you choose to take up with a narcissist (who would choose this??), you have to remove yourself emotionally from the relationship. I’ve somewhat got to that point. If I don’t react emotionally to him, I’m ok. If Ireact with my mind, and not with my heart, I’m ok.

Here’s how removed I am (today anyway)…I’ll keep this brief. Bare in mind, he’s now living with the “other woman” since Saturday. He calls me from his work and briefly tells me what’s going on…useless, idle chit chat. He didn’t call all weekend, as she was there. He calls me three times Monday. I think basically to tell me how great everything is, only to get an emotional response from me. He’s not getting the response he wants/needs to hear. His calls are getting shorter. Today…I have to laugh at this, does he think I will take this seriously…he says “I love you”. What the hell…you love me and you’re living with/sleeping with another woman who you tell me you love. What the hell is he telling her??? It’s just crazy; crazy to the point where I can sit back and laugh. I feel so sorry for the new woman…he’s told me a little about her…she’s another co-dependent. This is just awful, but I can’t wait to see how long this one lasts. When I’m in a weak frame of mind…that’s when I have the same thoughts as doubledee…did he ever mean it. I just can’t go there anymore…it’s obvious he didn’t. It’s just love from his warped, screwed up, narcissistic head.

Hugs and kicks in the butt to everyone!!

Kathy928, I’m truly sorry regarding the problems with your daughter. I had problems with my Mom, she’s very needy and the main source of my Codependent issues. We’ve had our share of fights but as we get older we understand each other more and fight less. Now my sisters who are in their early 20’s fight with her all the time. However, there’s nothing I can do. I do my best to be the peacemaker. She made big mistakes with me and when my sisters came along she made the same mistakes with them. They need to work it out and I’m sorry that she has to go through this at her age. There’s a 15 yr gap between me and my sisters. I hope that as your daughter grows older life will teach her lessons that will help her to understand you better. For now keep praying, God hears you.

Wondering, GO GET THAT BOOK! Codendent No More. I’m enjoying it. It does mention alcoholism but it also says this:

As professionals began to understand codependency better, more groups of people appeared to have it: adult children of alcoholics, people in relationships with emotionally or mentally disturbed persons, people in relationships with chronically ill people, parents of children with behavior problems, people in relationships with irresponsible people, professionals-nurses, social workers, and others in “helping” occupations.

Interesting huh!