I want to send him a book on narcissism, or a website link. i don’t believe he is unfixable even though everyone says there are. anyone ever done this? confront?
I don’t mean to sound rude, but … what’s he going to do, read the book and with tears in his eyes beg you to forgive him, that he’s seen the light?
At every step of the way he has been 100% convinced he was in the right - every abusive act he committed against you was justified.
If he can’t see how he’s hurting you now, then he definitely won’t warm up to some website or book.
On the other hand, you might want to try it if only to convince yourself that he really is unfixable.
Rene
----- Original Message ----
From: hopetoday npd-cpt5935@lists.careplace.com
To: descartes326@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:55:34 PM
Subject: [npd] confront or just leave
you are right. I know I should resist but I just wrote him like 4 emails thinking that maybe one of them would sink through to him but they don’t. i am just so angry. wish i was not. How can they be so cold? how can there be so many people like this? I don’t understand. yes, I have read tons and tons and tons on N but seriously, this is so messed up!
Rene,
The Bible always helps.
Above all else,guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.Proverbs4:22
(For those of us who fall in love so easily,only to be hurt)
Free yourself,like a gazelle from the hand of the hunter,like a bird from the snare of the fowler.Proverbs6:5
(This is what we need to do)
Love is patient,love is kind.It does not envy,it does not boast.It is not proud.It is not rude,it is not self-seeking,it is not easily angered,it keeps no record of wrongs.Love does not delight in evil,but rejoices with the truth.1 Corinthians13:4-6
(What`s love got to do with it?)
The thing is…hes NO clue anythings wrong with him so hed not even understand why you sent the book etc…
But you have to do what you have to do…and sometimes writing mails etc is what you feel you need to do…Ive written some very from the heart mails at times but theyve always been ignored if sent at a time of things being bad between us…I once sent a text asking were we still friends? and he replied hed no time for difficult questions …its all about what suits them…
It surely cant hurt anything tho and it could maybe even help get some of the anger and frustration out of your system.
Good luck just dont expect any miraculous reply…
THANK YOU!!!
no one understands except my friend who has been through it herself. thank you!
They … Are … Not … Like … Us … hopetoday.
Sometimes the Bible helps. There’s a couple of places that give me chills but that helped me think about my situation. (Don’t mean to preach here, I’m approaching this as an English major, not a minister):
- “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that
every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Genesis 6:5).
How could this be? Isn’t everyone at least a little bit good? Doesn’t everyone make mistakes? But this verse says that evil is ALL they thought about and did, 24/7. That means it’s possible for someone to be ALL bad.
- “And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold” (Matthew 24:14).
In other words, love will be a forgotten emotion. That part sends chills down my spine. I have known people like that. It’s like they have a forcefield of darkness and hate surrounding them, and it’s hard even to stand next to them.
Rene
----- Original Message ----
From: hopetoday npd-cpt5935@lists.careplace.com
To: descartes326@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:56:09 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] confront or just leave
People who seem “evil” are people who have been severely damaged. In the case of NPD, they refuse to entertain their deep shame and grow. They are inflexible, and there is nothing inside at all, except that well of shame that they have constructed an impervious armor around. These people need to be forgiven and moved away from, not necessarily in that order.
When something is making you feel toxic and you question your own sanity, you can be pretty sure it’s not you that’s the problem.
Probably, you grew up with a narcissist and felt you needed to love that person, perhaps because they were your mother or father, and this may be why you are attracting other narcissists - it’s just familiar and you are also hoping, subconsciously, to be able to “get it right” this time. Please do not waste your time.
No, your mate will not change, no matter how much you would like him/her to. NPD is a pervasive disorder. If they do not react with rage to honest comments about themselves, they will act with utter disbelief and denial. They will find some other way to justify their behavior so that they are not wrong, even if it seems plausible.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there that seem to have this disorder, and we all have narcissistic traits to some degree. It is part and parcel of the “ego.” Perhaps we can credit youthful, impulsive marriages / pregnancies / unprepared parents, and also societies’ general fixation on bigger, better, more beautiful.
Please try to see how having a toxic relationship is not worth your time.
What DoubleDee said here I think is really key - it is hard to get over any relationship., but the dynamics with these N breakups is a horse of a different color all together. Because we have been beaten down emotionally, we are weaker than a “normal” person exiting a relationship. But, I find that the hardest part for me has been forgiving myself for being so “played” (for lack of a better word). These break ups have so many moving parts that we have to give ourselves extra time to heal.
friend2,
Both the first and last paragraphs of your posting are on point.You could not have said it any better.however it takes a while before one can get to a place where they see this so clearly.There are many stages in the survivors experience.
everybody here is so great and understands. it is so nice. I do not feel so alone and I feel on a roller coaster between happy and sad and hopeful and like in a pit of fire.
i hate myself and then I love myself.
I forgive him and then I hate him.
I bruised myself. I hit a wall so hard over and over last night when we were fighting. I know that he did not do it to me but I look at it and think to myself this is what I would look like if he hit me. I think I did it to myself to show myself that. You can see all my wounds but they are so deep that I want someone to see them and wish that it was illegal for emotional abuse like it is physical. I think the emotional can sometimes be worse. if he hit me, I would have been gone.
i know that I cannot just jump into a new relationship but I want to. I want to prove to myself that I can get out of this one.
I am listening to the OJ thing on CNN, it reminds me him. They are talking about all his daily behaviors… and I feel like I have dated him.
My N acts like OJ.
I had a dream the other night that I was the next lacey peterson. My N has never hit me ever nor has he ever come close but part of me thinks that if I stay, he could turn into a scott peterson.
it scares me to say this. I have not told anyone… oh actually, I told my best friend today.
My N has never done anything to make me feel unsafe but has said more than once that killling someone would be the ultimate power. it is the ultimate control.
that scared me.
i can’t believe I am with someone like this.
i will not be out for awhile, we own a condo together but don’t live together.
i hate him.
i want somone to make love to me and love me and not roll over and tell me that I should date other men becasue becasue he can’t be tied down and I deserve better. And then tell me he loves me but will do nothing for me to be there for me. watch me cry all night. and do nothing about it. besides tell me i am an emotional woman. he can’t deal with emotional women.
he says communication is the key.
he just won’t do it.
I know more about him than anyone in his life. this is what gets me… i know so much about him and he shuts everyone out and has friends but is quite a loner. with lots of money so he never had to learn how to social in a work setting.
i am rambeling again, all this stuff is spewing out.
I go from feeling free and hopful to sad and depressed.
to I don’t want to get out of bed to… I love that I can find some one new.
I am so scared that I am not going to find the love of my life. everyone says I will never find one if I worry about it… but I have never had one … now that I look back. they were all toxic N’s.
how can i pretend that I don’t want it and make it come if I do?
i wish i could snap my finger and wish him out of my life! I still have to talk to him. I still have to be reminded of him. I still have to think about him.
he does not beleive me that it is over. i have broken up with him so many times.
i think he thinks I am going to just keep coming back.
he thinks i am crazy and need to be checked into a mental hospital.
i can’t wait until I am free of him.
I do think he beleives me more than before but not 100%.
I finally believe myself.
I finally beleive I might be able to break free this time. I hope.
I have to or I will die. my last N had me so depressed that I wanted to die.
he told me everyday how worthless I was and how great I was and how worthless I was. it was awful. he mad sure that I never felt safe.
so funny, now he does… he is so insightful and we talk. he has not changed but I truly believe he cares for me and wishes me the best and hopes that I find somone great.
he said he can’t change
Hopetoday,
There is lots of support for you at Careplace,please believe it.I was right where you are now.Trust me.Here is what to do tonight;Calm down;take a warm shower,make yourself a cup of tea,get into your bed,make yourself comfortable,say to yourself"i love me"Joy comes in the morning.Say a prayer or just say "Help me God,Help me"and God will.
Get back onto Careplace tomorrow and share.
Remember,you have to hold on to your dignity.we all do.
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” (Exodus 22:18).
Rene
----- Original Message ----
From: healed1 npd-cpt5935@lists.careplace.com
To: descartes326@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 9:48:39 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] confront or just leave
Hope…thank you for the hug!
I was also interested to hear about OJ in the news again. Your instincts are correct…OJ exhibits classic pathological narcisissm/sociopathic behavior…taken to the ultimate extreme. Scott Peterson, too.
Continue to trust your instincts. I do not like that your bf has spoken of killing being the ultimate power; although he has never hurt you physcially, and because he is Narcissistic I know they say stupid stupid things (like kids)…but please take care of yourself anyway and always take whatever steps you feel are needed to feel safe, like changing the locks, staying w/ freinds etc. Please don’t hurt yourself anymore…I so know how mind boggling frustrating these folks can be… I threw a very large heavey bottle of cabernet accross a hotel room in a fight w/ my bf last year, not at him, but at the wall…I threw my purse at him!!! He was going to go to sleep after admitting he had lied to me yet again…I went into a rage I have never experienced before and screamed at him - He used the same ‘you are crazy, this is all your stuff…a sane, educated person doesn’t act this way’ bullshit with me that your bf uses on you…my reply to him was ‘you wanna bet???.. Keep toying with the emotions of an otherwise normal woman and eventually you’re going to start seeing some objects flying by your bald dome, bud.’ Still, It also was a clear indication it was time to “step away from the narcissist”.
There is nothing wrong w/ you that stepping away from the toxicity of this wounded person won’t heal in time. There is nothing wrong w/ you. He is toxic for you; he may be that way forever. He may make contributions in other areas of life, business, industry or whatever…but when it comes to being close to you …he is toxic. Your focus right now should be on YOU YOU YOU. What do you want? Take baby steps. Eat your favorite foods. Hang out w/ best girlfreinds. Take a bath, get a massage. Rent your favorite movies. You have been emotionally battered and bruised. Treat yourself like you have been through a car accident or are recovering from the flu and you need tender loving care and time to rest and heal. Try to take a little time off work…go to Mexico and sit by a pool and sip margaritas w/ your best girlfreind. See your counselor and spill your heart out and start talking about what you want…write about what you want, dream about what you want for yourself and a relationship. See or call a spiritual healer if you can (I recommend Laura Bushnell) these are simply highly empathic in-tune indivduals…that’s what you need to be around as much as possible, empathic people who are healing and nurturing and compassionate who bring the focus back to YOU. You have been through a crises, a trauma. Treat yourself with kid gloves and pamper yourself. Do this long enough, and you will find you attract like-minded people to your life. Treat yourself the way you wish to be treated…I hear your frustration in wanting so badly to be in a good relationship…be good to yourself FIRST, the ‘good’ relationship will follow…I promise. Your bf has told you he cannot change. Trust what he is saying is true. If my bf were telling me he could not change or did not want to…I would believe him. I think it’s wise of you that your are trying to remove yourself from him and this relationship now. It starts with YOU. And, If your bf were ever to start the path toward healing and enlightenment…it would be more likely facillitated by witnessing key people in his life taking healthy, life affirming steps for themselves and modeling healthy behavior…NOT by ‘putting’ up with a dysfunctional relationship and engaging in the cycle of abuse with him. Right now, it’s all about YOU. I’m so sorry you have had to feel such pain… It will get better- promise!
Hopetoday - that was a very revealing post for me. You definately are in a very tough place, but - giving yourself bruises isn’t what you need to do. The emotional abuse, in my opinion, is usually much worse because it’s harder to get over. It is EVERY BIT as damaging as the physical and if you’d leave if he hit you, you must leave now. And, just because he hasn’t hit you yet, doesn’t mean he won’t. Again, I can only speak from my experience, but mine has a flip-switch temper that can scare you to death - the look in his eyes - the sneer - the complete and utter “coldness” - when the rage started, it was time to exit. He told me he’s “lifted her off the ground by her throat with my one hand” (he’s 6’6") once when describing a fight with an ex and told me I’d better not make him that mad. He’s threatened me, but the worst time was thankfully, while we were fighting over the phone. I was home and he doesn’t know where I live - luckily, by the next morning, he was back to “normal”. Point is - I think that many of them DO have the capability for violence - be careful - you must leave.
The other thing is that you need to prove to yourself that you are strong enough to leave WITHOUT ANOTHER MAN BEING IN THE PICTURE ! Sorry if that was too strong. I believe that, in order to set the stage for your future relationships to be healthy, you must be your own person first. Know that you left this man for you! Find yourself, heal yourself, love yourself first and then the right man will find and love you too.
You can do it - I’ve seen your progress already here. Keep venting here, where it’s productive. Venting at him hoping for change is a waste of energy.
Big hugs! Angie
bup…you are exactly right!!! that is truly the case and it is the only way to look at it and maintain your sanity, not take it personally as a reflection of your worth, and have it make logical sense. You would not expect your intellectually challenged friend to ace a calculous exam…DO NOT expect an emotionally challenged person to meet the emotional needs and expectations of a grown-up. They are about the 6-12 year equivilent if that. Empathy is one of the last, most sophisticated skills children learn…they did not get to that stage. While a 6 year old can behave in a very loving way and can dress up and play-act like an adult for a while…say all the right words when they are feeling happy and content…you still know they are children and cannot be expected to match or meet the emotional needs and expectations of an adult in any authentic, meaningful way… they can be enamored of you one minute and hate you the next. That’s classic six year old behavor!!! That and temper tantrums!!! Know that!!! Know that is the narcissist in your life!!! They don’t act that way to be MEAN to you…they act that way becasue that is the level of emotional development thay are at… they are not even happy, secure six year olds either, they are scared, confused, angry six year olds…they do not have the same tools that a normal person has. Understand this, then make decisions for yourself knowing that you are dealing with an emotionally retarded person. If they would like to learn to increase their skill levels…that is up to them. It’s not our job to fix it for them, and because they are emotionally stunted…it may never occur to them they need help or need fixing, if they have been intellectually and financially successful and have found people to accommodate their childish behavior…why the hell would they want to go through the pain of trying to fix something? Some find great success in being exactly who they are in this society! Also, realizing something is amiss and they may need help requires a certain amount of self reflection and self introspection…again, that is a fairly sophisticated skill…most narcissists, like most 6 year olds, aren’t sitting around self reflecting on the existential questions of life… if my 6 year old wanted to chat with me about issues of self improvement and existential angst I would be very, very, very surprised.
Wow, I remember being in your place (read my story when you have a moment). I coached myself constantly saying to myself, I’m wonderful, I’m beautiful, I’m smart, I’m intelligent, I’m thoughtful, I’m loving, I’m compassionate, I’m kind, I’m artistic, I’m funny, I’m full of joy… I said these words out loud trying to counteract all the negative that was said to me from someone who fully understands that I AM all these things! Smart, Funny, Beautiful, Ambitious AND HE’S JEALOUS! I cried many nights, I flipped back and forth between love and hate. I missed his body, I missed his laugh and then I got real…
He would like to destroy you, demean you, dismantle all the components that make you WHO you are. Because he will never be like you. He will never have what is inherently natural to your being. Your kindness, your ability to love, your ability to feel. Get in touch with the Creator (God). Write love notes to yourself. Stick them on the fridge, on the bathroom mirror. Write them on a list and read them every morning. You have some serious deprogramming to do. Understand how special you are and that God wants you to be joyful and celebrate life!
Read everything you can about Narcissim, understand what belongs to him and what belongs to you. This is not all your fault no matter what he told you. Read and get strong!
A good friend of mine who is close to God said, THE DEVIL IS A LIAR! When you have negative thoughts say this out loud. I hate to equate a living breathing human being with the devil. However, it did help me in my healing process ALOT. Most Narcissists are liars and they infiltrate your mind manipulation and deception, like the devil. Good Angel on the left shoulder, Demon on the right shoulder, both whispering in your ear. Who will you listen to? Who will you give power to? Once you understand who you are saying no to the devil will get easier.
Hope,You have been very heavy on my heart this morning and I’ve been asking God -what can I say to you to help you ?I guess I can only say from my own life that my foundation in who I am is what God says I am.I was searching desperately for answers and the truth.For me the truth is in the word of God not the circumstance of crazy and pain that surrounded me.When I was at my lowest and I was shattered to the core of who I was I cryied out to God .He was my safe place and loved me.All through the bible the Lord talks about restoring us and giving us a future and a hope-just like your name.Behold old things are past away all things are new.Get a vision of what you want in your future.Do you want true love? You can have it God will give you the desires of your heart .The reason why this isnt working out with your boyfriend is because it’s not supposed to.Don’t you want the best? You deserve the best.Let God turn this around for you in your life,next year at this time you will be different.You will be stronger and your heart will no longer be broken.Move forward to your destiny and dreams .Love does not hurt you like your’e being hurt by this man.It does not flip the script on you and it doesnt make you crazy.Youve already invested so much of yourself into this relationship maby thats why its hard to move on .Let this be a part of your past otherwise your true dreams wont come true.You have worth and value and when you see it in yourself you wont settle for scaps,but only the best.It will get better I promise.My mother use to say-and this too shall pass-We are all here for you.You dont have to walk through this alone.
I was talking with a friend yesterday. We discussed Narcissists
being emotionally retarded. Maybe like someone
who walks into a calculus exam and has never taken calculus. It is
just that simple. They don’t know how to
feel. They can’t feel because they literally are incapable. And that
is how it should be treated. Instead of
you feeling badly that you are not meeting their expectations, you
turn it around and realize, they just don’t have the knowledge. It is
harder to recognize because emotions are on the inside. If he was
mentally challenged, we
wouldn’t expect big things from them. So narcissists should be
treated like the “Emotionally challenged.”
On Sep 18, 2007, at 11:33 AM, maryb2100 wrote:
It’s a given that there’s some emotional immaturity around these types of people. You may not understand Narcissim but you do understand when someone is being selfish, insensitive and critical. I think disconnecting from a toxic relationship is hard and painful. There is the emotional pain of the breakup the feelings of addiction (like he’s the only person in the world who can ease your pain) and loss. Also, grieving for what never came to fruition. It’s a death. The death of the relationship and facing an uncertain future. That’s why it’s important to say positive affirmations. To reaffirm yourself. Reading and understanding N behavior will help you accept what your dealing with and disconnect emotionally. Because as SMG says you won’t take the behavior personally.