Feel sorry for you N?

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

I am just wondering if after learning all this information about what Narcissism really is, did any of you feel sorry for the N in your life? At times I feel great sorrow just looking at him and feeling the distance between us, the true lack of intimacy, and knowing that that is as deep as he will ever get with someone. He will never know true love. He has never felt love- in the “grown-up” sense. In fact, I feel so sorry for him, that I have been seriously rethinking leaving. I do feel that I deserve more than what he is willing/able to offer to me, but doesn’t he deserve more as well? I mean, my staying or leaving won’t offer him anything in the way of deeper feelings, but it would be another scar for him to overcome.

Anyway, I am just curious as to whether or not people often feel this way toward their “children in grown-up bodies”.

#2

Yes in a way I feel bad for my N. Knowing that he will never be able to truly experience real love or have real empathy. But I don’t feel sorry enough for him to allow him to continue to damage me or my children. I can’t do anything to help him. I never could. There is a saying in al-anon. I didn’t cause it, I can’t fix it and I can’t cure it. That’s one of the ways I try to look at things.

#3

… And Pheonix, you made some very good points about not feeling sorry for him missing something, when he will never really know what he is missing. Do you think that he can really look at a loving couple and NOT see how different that is from our relationship? I guess THAT is one of the hardest things for me to do. To stop trying to understand what actually goes through his head. To treat the situation as though I was dealing with a mature adult with adult emotions and someone capable of acknowledging his own faults and fallbacks.

I am not in a situation that is rational and I suppose that those of you who can honestly say that you don’t feel sorry for your N have gotten to a point where you no longer feel the urge to rationally understand him/her anymore, but understand that they are as they are regardless of anything you can do or say.

#4

Yes, I absolutely have felt this.

When I first discovered NPD, I had already left. It set me back quite badly. My way out has been thwarted by my H for 3 years now, with a very procrastinated divorce and children being used. It is painful every day. He punishes me in every way shape form or fashion that he can. If you have kids, they have you sewn up like a kipper. Whether I had stayed or gone, I pay the price for his affliction.

But he is not a winner. He is always the loser too. A disorderd mind and a disordered life. For ever.

We look for happiness and contentment in this life and becoming emboiled with NPD, makes that so impossible to achive. I have to keep trying to see beyond this. I wish my life away so that I can be beyond it. And I feel guilty about that, because wishing your life away is wrong in my book.

I really struggle with what we all have to go through. Us and them.

#5

Oh absolutely!!! But only to a degree. I remember how often he acted like a sweet little child - certainly NOT a grown man in a 6’6" body! I gave him an unexpected card one day and the man danced around the room, giddy with joy. Whenever he did things that were so incredibly childlike, I used to think I was lucky to have a man who wasn’t afraid to show emotion… But, when he was angry, it was all about a man sized rage. I’ve always had a hard time vacillating between feeling sorry for him because he won’t ever have what he wants and anger at the abuse he hurled at me. I believe that it isn’t under his control and have been able to forgive him for his actions - but can’t forget, and that is key. We can feel sorry, we can forgive - but, we can’t fix and so shouldn’t forget. I have always had a bit of the nurturer in me - always wanting to fix a hurt or make better a guy’s bad past, so it was especially hard for me to accept (not understand, just accept) that I can’t fix him. No one can and that’s why I had to let it go and move on. Not easy, but necessary. Do I still think back to the cute look on his face? yes Do I still think about how sweet and innocent he could be? yes Jekyll and Hyde - childlike vs. monster - whew - roller coaster. Still I feel sorry for him because he doesn’t get it and probably never will.

#6

Feeling sorry for my ex N/S would require empathy and I think I let that go awhile ago.

I dont seem to have any anymore for someone I realize simply will not have any empathy for me.

Its hard to feel sorry for what he puts himself through, what his parents put him through when he felt perfectly free to put me through it.

Its not that I wish him ill anymore, but I dont care anymore if something god or something bad happens to him, if he’s caught in a never-ending N/S cycle his entire life as seems the prediction, or if he finds help somehow, someway.

Or maybe its that I have this tender young empathy for my own heart now, that for whatever reasons I went through a meat grinder, and I feel sorry for me, sadness and tenderness that I want to wrap myself up in, that I want to comfort and help myself now.

It would be so nice if I got a heartfelt apology, or an attempt at him making amends for any of the many things he did that he knew would cause me pain or create insecurity or craziness. But I know that healing wont ever come my way from him, it has to come from me.

There wont be apologies, there wont be amends, there wont be justice, there wont even be an admission that I was valuable and he blew it. There can only be empathy and comforting…to me, from me.

And lastly I dont think he feels sorry for himself, so I’m not sure it would be appropriate for me to feel it for him. He seemed to always be trying to teach me and lecture me and prove to me that the world was how he saw it, and I was naive and mistaken. In his world he is right, and worldly and knowing…so he knows he is what he needs to be, without any apology or regret.

Seems I should just let the image of him in my mind and my heart be.

I mean we dont feel sorry for cheetahs being killers do we? They just are. No matter how many periods of near starvaton they go through while the impalas are grazing.

#7

also, I dont feel sorry at the prospect he wont ever know true love, I mean if he doesnt know what he is missing, he isnt missing it really…is he?

Its like feeling sorry for culture that doesnt have Christianity, or mass consumerism, when they dont even know what it is to miss???

#8

I know what you mean. It is like dealing with two completely different people most of the time. Even the facial expressions when the child is here are completely different from the facial expressions when the monster is on his warpath. It is strange.

I have the same nurturing side. I think that from day one I had the urge to nurture the little boy side of him. I do see that I still try to do that for him.

#9

well I’m guessing right now, but I think when my exN/S looks at a loving couple he likely sees them through his own eyes, not their own eyes…I know he suspected me of trying to manipulate him when I cried, or that when I was expressing myself about how unfair things were and how painful I found it, he took it as criticism…and no matter how much I tried to explain to him that I was different from him and that my intentions were different than he was assuming, I dont think he ever believed me, so I think when he sees another couple he sees people who use whatever method they can to get their needs met, like he does, and when they get tired of each other or find someone beter they’ll walk away, like he does, and if they dont, if tnhey stay togther until old age they must have led a very boring life he himself could never tolerate, and so they must be inferior to him in some way, because only inferior people can tolerate boredom.

He told me himself he has no reference point for what it is to be “a team”. He doesnt know what commitment is because he never saw it modeled for him. In fact committed, monogamous relationship in his experience as a child and a partner spells disaster and pain and eventually hatred. And he admitted he doesnt know what a conscience is, or honesty, except a weakness he doesnt have to contend with - he doesnt know how to comfort someone and if I was as strong as he is I wouldnt have needed comfort - and he doesnt have empathy, but he does expect others to have it for him (odd that one).

Its an issue as I said, of not knowing what he is missing, so of course he wouldnt value it.

The only problem is, I valued it…all of it, so I was chronically and painfully dissatisfied.

#10

Ahhh, Phoenix, I think it is interesting- even if only a guess into the mind of an N- that they can turn anyone who has feelings into weaklings because to them feelings/needs= weaknesses. So sad, yet I can see how that may be true. I think I just want to believe so badly that there is some shred of normal human feeling in there somewhere, that I sometimes let myself fantasize about it… which sets me up to be let down eventually once again

#11

I think SMG puts it brilliantly and succinctly when she describes how a N does have normal feelings…for a child…trapped in an adult body.

The only thing that interferes with that in my own case is my expartner is not just a N, he is criminally minded and sadistic, andc an control his impulses and urges when it suits him, so its difficult for me to even imagine him as that little boy inside the adult who just cant help himself.

He is what he is.

The only thing thats good about it is, he wont be able to find me anymore…he’ll be him…doing what he does…to someone other than me and my son.

#12

he'll be him...doing what he does...to someone other than me and my son.

 That was so powerful.

I felt very inspired by the fact that you can go on and heal and he won't. He will continue infecting other's lives, but you can go and be healthy and happy with your son. There is so much strength in everything you write.

#13

thanks for those kind words

I dont think he has any healing to do
I guess thats the way I look at it
because thats how he looks at it

theres nothing wrong with him

he’s a cheetah

I’m an impala

we just need to stay far far away from each other

#14

hmmm…feeling sorry for your N partner. Yes, definately. I grieved a lot in the beginning (our relationship was at it’s most volatile at the begininng, and when I realized he was probably NPD or at least the child of N’s with his own destructive N traits, it was really sad). I think it’s normal to feel sad or badly for someone who has limitations, and the more I learn about the typical environment that leads to this kind of developmental problem, the more compassion I feel. But, I try to separate out the ability to feel compassion and even show care and concern for someone, and make sure I’m okay, too. I can understand all day long WHY my bf does some of the bizzare things he does. If they are hurtful, it still has to stop or abate or improve or become modified (if he’s going to with me). Not everyone who has problems with Narcissism never get any better, and everyone is different. It’s unfortuante that Pheonixx was dealing with NPD but also probably an anti-social pd with litte or not remorse or conscience. That’s adding another layer of complexity onto an already very difficult problem. But, again, everyone is different. My bf will admit he’s wrong, and I have seen feel shame and remorse. If the damage is not too severe and the person is somone who for whatever strange reason is open even a little to learning a better way, then the arrested adolescent can sometimes slowly begin to grow up…it’s just a belated process and it takes longer than if it had happnened in childhood like it should have. Much of this kind of therapy is almost like ‘reparenting’ and is even often called repartenting, where the person gets what he did not get as a child. It’s normal to feel sorry, and to have compassion. Just be smart about it. It does not mean you have to put up with abuse. They are two entirely different things.

#15

Sociopaths and NPD are two different things. A sociopath is going to have next no empathy while an N can have low levels. I read somewhere recently, but I can’t recall the article, that Ns are not sociopaths, but, sociopaths often also have NPD. From my perspective they all sure have a lot in common, but I think when you deal with AsPD there are things that aren’t present. My ex is one sick puppy, but she isn’t malignant.

I think its natural to have pity for the N, but S’s are different. I’d never expect somebody to feel bad for their rapist and what not.

I’ll always feel bad for my ex in that she’ll never be able to live a fulfilling life or recognize that she creates that wish she really wants to avoid. The really tricky part, however, is when they use that pity against you. Its hard to admit that my ex hurt me or frustrated me when you know that she might get a kick out of it.

#16

lelee - that’s the bottom line I was trying to convey in my earlier post on this topic, but said much better. I really like that quote - thanks!

#17

I wish they all came with a big letter N on their foreheads. Is that bad? I can empathise but I wish they were all locked up to protect society.

#18

Sometimes I think they should be clearly labeled as Ns that would be interesting and very helpful. Some people are just drawn to bad people though. It is sad, but in session with my new T (who is great by the way) I had a revelation. I got with my NH not because he was good for me or because I felt that we would be happy forever, but BECAUSE he was bad. I grew up in a dysfunctional family and it was very ugly most of the time. I got used to feeling horrible and being abused… so when I was away from it it didn’t feel right so I found myself a “normal” (or what I had grown to consider normal= miserable) relationship to cling onto. It happened that for some reason, I finally woke up, realized it is not “normal” nor is it healthy or necessary to be this unfullfilled.

It is somewhat comforting, but again daunting. My hesitation in leaving is that I am afraid that I will find myself back here again. Maybe not with my NH specifically, but if it is encoded into my brain that I need dysfunction to survive then will I ever be able to be comfortable being alone or healthy? I am terrified of going through the divorce and everything only to eventually find myself in another abusive, or worse another N relationship a few years down the road.

Did anyone have the same fear? I just feel like maybe I’m doomed to sadness by my own “pathological craving” for dysfunction. If so, then why bother leave?

#19

hmmmmm…

I think many of us can relate to the realisation that we are of a type or that a certain relationship affected us and how we went on to relate to others.

In my case, and through my journey of pain, I began to blame my mother, and stupidly got drunk and ranted at her one night. It was counter productive, just made us both feel bad. My mother is constanty cirtical and disapproving. She was never on my side - her attitude, when things went wrong or I was unhappy, was always - ‘so what did you do to deserve it’ My mother def lacks empathy, and is very chidish and super sensitive. She still makes me feel very uncomfortable about myself, and I am in my 40’s. Managing my relationship with her is still a challenge.

Recognising that your relationship/marriage is not working, is a pretty hopeless stage. But ignoring it does not remove you from the place that you are. Life, is a journey they say. I cant tell you that by leaving, everything wil suddenly be better, indeed, in my world, the separation phase has been a nightmare. And I feel crazier today than I did when I left. But that is becasue I am divorcing a human with NPD, we have chidren and we have assets, and he is milking me for every ounce of supply he can get. Because he is way up the food chain - OBVIOUSLY!!! A 15 year marriage, and an ongoing 3 year divorce process.

I had 3 reationships. One (which ended a year ago) of which shattered my already bruised and battered heart. None were even remotey satisfactory. I screwed up, becasue I was desperate for the love that eluded me for the 15 years of my marriage, and possiby my whole life (I cant bring myself to analyse my feeings about my mother)

I wont lie to you. I am lonely, I still wish for that love. But I cant bring myself to look for it, and I am scared of romantic relationships. But, I am still under N attack. And hopefully when all his ammo runs out and the judge bangs his hammer for the final time, I can begin my real recovery.

Its not easy anna, I cant tell you otherwise. But I am looking to a future which is not run by NPD. If it means that I am alone for ever, it is stil healthier than the thankless and hopeless existence that, were I to be waking up with my husband every day, i would be facing .

#20

Nic, Hang in there. I am in a very similiar position of divorcing my NPD. Af first I couldn’t understand how he could leave me literally in the floor crying. He walked away saying I don’t care and then held the bedroom door shut while he walked out. I then began to find out the thousands of lies he had told. He even started calling up my friends telling them that I am the crazy one-standard NPD tactic. Then I found out he had molesting my teenage daughter. I still have my days that I feel sad, angry, lonely, and yes sometimes crazy. I took such a psychological battering that its taking me some time to figure out who I am again after years of walking on eggshells and being criticized about everything I did. He would even try to tell me which lane t park in and what parking space to park in. Some days I am ok, sometimes i am on shaky ground. It is getting better. Slowly but I’m getting there. He has actually led me into having gratitude that I can still feel, and still love people, something that I know that he will never have. In that way, I guess I feel sorry for him because of the joy of loving and being loved is something he is unable to experience. I am glad to be out. Life is coming back for me. All of that tension and anger are gone with him out of the house and I am able to enjoy a much closer relationship with my almost grown children. There is peace at last and to me that is priceless.