How to spot a N?!

Hello!

Most of us here have had very close/intimate encounters with N’s. We’ve come to understand N’s and their behavior through this forum. I’d like everyone to share what they’ve learned so we can identify and stay away from N’s in the future.

I’ll start with a few N traits and the everyone please feel free to add to this list.

  • In a group of people discussing a particular topic; N’s will talk about something totally irrelevant to the topic so that everyone focuses on THEM.
  • Will say one thing but do the exact opposite! (Observe if a person is doing what they claim to be doing)
  • They will NEVER apologize, instead will focus on everything bad YOU did, whereas all you did was in reaction to their bad deed/action.
  • In a group of people trying to make a plan; N’s will want everyone to do what THEY want. The odds can be 20 against one, they want EVERYTHING done their way.
  • Low impulse control. Cannot control their temper/envy/jealousy/excitement.
  • Will make other people feel uncomfortable by crossing personal boundaries. Will ask questions that are inappropriate.

Yah, I too had a feeling that something wasn’t right about her. It was a shocker when I finally figured it out, and it took me several years to do that.

fully agree fancynancy…but in my experience they also constantly contradict themselves as if they have another side that does all the bad stuff…true jekyll and hyde characters…one part is what they would like to THINK that they are…and the other side is the’disowned"part of them,the one to blame…almost scizophrenic i suppose…!
Or is this unique to my exoperience…!

The one I ran into was a pathological liar.

Gaslighting was a major issue…

its hard to know where the lies end and the truth begins isnt it…cat and mouse games…catch me if you can…naughty child stuff.(as fancynancy says a great way to spot an N)
strange thing is they believe their lies…!
Meanwhile…we are left in a pool of paranoia and confusion.!
wonderful stuff eh?
i now ask myself…why did i ever enter into their reality.
Never again hopefully…aah wisdom,the by product of life with an N.
Perhaps their fantasy world IS a bit of magic…but reality kicks in when the hypnosis becomes inefective…andreality hurts.

“its hard to know where the lies end and the truth begins”

I’m quoting this because it a thought that went through my head several times throughout the ordeal. I took it a step furthur, and I’ve heard others say it, “its hard to know where you begin and they end.” Or is it the other way around?

Agree with all said here, these are the tried and true traits, sad to say, of someone walking around with gaping
narcissistic wounds. Ah! So frustrating and sad.

I would add the whole sweep-you-off-your -feet-your-the-best -thing-that ever-happened-to-me-over-the-top -love/seduction thing that is initiated WAY WAY too early in the relationship. That is a big, big, red flag when you run into it in dating situations. This spells major Emotional Immaturity, which sadly, often spells Major Narcissism.

Once you fall for it, and it’s easy to fall for it becasue they are usually very compelling and very good at it and VERY sincere (becasue it feels sincere to them in the moment) you usually then get dumped, devalued or at least get taken on a very nauseating emotional roller coaster ride.

(they like hearing that you love them but they haven’t a clue, not a clue, what to do with you once they ‘get your love’, they get scared and freak out, but that has to be covered up with the crunchy outter exterior and they act like indifferent a-holes, and boy oh boy THATS when the fun begins).

I don’t think they do it on purpose. I dont’ think they PLOT it out or scheme about it in the middle of the night.

But, it doesn’t matter!!!

It SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS to be on the receiving end of it, regardless of the reason or the intent.

So, guard yourself and your heart carefully when you see this behavior in someone and be SMART about it.

I agree with all of the above and would include the following as it comes to mind,hoping not to duplicate anything that was already mentioned-
Pay attention to how they speak of their past relationships and Ex’s.They say things like"I have not yet met a woman i wanted to spend the rest of my life with"Give me a break!you’re 50 years old.
They usually claim that their Ex’s had mental illnesses
They are sometimes still hurting over a past Ex’s rejection(narcissistic injury)although the cannot truly love the ex.
They move way too quickly,multiple emails daily,they want to see you all the time and you find your self caught up in it if you are attracted to them.You find yourself getting high off of the attention.They truly idealize and flatter you,but as we get healthier we would not welcome this as we value the importance of taking time to know someone.
They speak well of their friends when you first meet them but as you get to know them,they also say mean and devaluing things about same friends.After all they are supperior.
My ex N would sometimes walk with an intimidating gait,like someone who was omnipotent.However i do not think that they all do.

Oh my SMG, can I ever relate to that. My ex treated me like I was the best thing in the world and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. I even knew that it was too good to be true, but I ended up telling myself that I MUST be worth something if somebody would go through all that effort to manipulate me. I knew it wasn’t true, but thats the part were I have to recognize my own issues… I stuck around wanting to believe it.

It really does absolutely suck. My ex told me over, and over, that she loved me. And there wasn’t one moment in the relationship that I ever believed it. The words were just empty.

And its true, I don’t think my ex meant anything harmful by it. She thought she was doing me a favor and was quite perplexed as to why it went unappreciated. From her perspective, it was my own fault for not blindly believing her.

But I see my own issues now. I saw something and tried to imagine a situation that wasn’t there and didn’t exsist, which is why I was left in the end feeling that my whole relationship was just fake and not real. It took me way to long to recognize that it wasn’t really a relationship at all. Sure, she lied to me, and manipulated me, but theres a part of me that knew better at some point and let it happen anyway.

smg…home truth here…they do freak out when you get to too close…this is a classic!..we were baited…reeled in…and thrown back in the pond,if you like…the thrill is in the chase!
But when they catch a fish they dont know what the hell to do with it…they get so so scared…getting too close can hurt perhaps?
Also the comolete lack of empathy is a good"spotter"without this…NO relationship can actually survive…run for the hills,if they lack the human touch…its a dead giveaway

tink its the old…investment thing…after all that time,can you really blame yourself for wanting to reap the rewards…think thats the great sadneess about these kinds of relationships…we believe in them and love them…and want them to"come good"…i now try to remember one thing…we cant change anyone,unless THEY want to change…we can only change ourselves.

Wow! Some great pearls of wisdom by everyone. Healed 1, the ‘intense contact’ you mentioned was so true for my ex-N. He was proud of the fact that he made friends instantly. Truth is that he ‘needs’ to make new friends every few years because he drives the old friends away. By using and abusing them to the fullest.

My N would literally breathe down my neck during the beginning of our relationship. Later on I observed that he did that with EVERY new ‘friend’ he made.

I guess due to their ‘reverse brain function’ they jump into relationships/decisions/jobs/agreements/contracts and later on think about where these things might lead to. Instead of thinking like us, thinking carefully before getting into anything serious. Or I guess they just couldn’t care less!

One thing which I’m trying to develop in me is ‘observing’ people I meet for the fisrt time. That should help in identifying an N.

can relate here…they are "needy"and when they get too much.people run for the hills.!they bring about their own abandonment almost…like the kid in the playground that no-one wants toplay with.
they are hard to"stomach"people either love or hate themn and they know it.
the 'old N walk"is familiar…a strut,haughty and superior…all"pumped up"and on centre stage(sad isnt it)
does anyone recognise this one…look…but dont touch(above accepting things such as human contact!)?the list goes on

Despite all I’ve learned, I still find it hard to spot an N. Its hard for me to discern whats normal human bad behavior and that caused by a disorder. I have plenty of coworkers who most likely do not qualify for a disorder, but they remind me of my ex all the same. I guess I don’t yet recognize whats a normal and healthy level of narcissism… especially since I don’t want any levels of it all in my life. Its hard to find perfect people, but I’ve found some that come close.

i found there was just a"feeling"that something wasnt"quite right’i now recognise that this is what i found attractive…once bitten twice shy?..i hope so!
we live and learn as they say…!?
Perhaps that feeling is the same feeling we got from n parents…?
Scary thought.

Fancynancy,you have hit the nail on the head.
"Observing people i meet for the first time"
Especially the ones that instantly gravitate towards you.We must not buy into flattery.As i look back i see how i have welcomed it.It was as though i relished and needed it.This has been enlightening for me;recognising my emotional dance in this area.I have observed people who are cautious in their human interactions,individuals who do not buy into new friendships or new relationships too easily.They are friendly,but they maintain boundaries.This has been helpful for me.
Lately i am thankful for the lessons learned from my N relationship and what it has taught me about myself,as painful as it has been.

Think about it,pay attention to how we go about choosing schools,purchasing homes,purchasing cars,shoes,and many other consumer goods and services.We do research,we ask others for their opinions.We even read consumer reports.But choosing a partner is sometimes purely emotional.

I agree Wastedyouth,it is not easy to spot a narcissist,since there has to be some interaction.The problem is,that we allow ourselves to be swept off of our feet and when the real person shows up,it’s too late,because we are so emotionally invested. It takes some work on our part;observing and listening to how they carry themselves and speak.We must be aware of our weaknesses and have our checklist.For us it is no longer business as usual.

and this is where it gets difficult…we can list all traits to recognize so we are prepared for the next narcissist that walks into our lives, true, but we can also turn equal attention to WHAT it is about a typical narcissist that we find so compelling and/or what blind spots WE might possess that would cause us to lean toward NOT listening to our guts when it is telling us something may not be right.

I am reading yet another book on narcissism, this one is called Disarming The Narcissist and it’s written by a LCSW. She spends equal time educating the reader about what is happening in a narcissist’s head, AND what is going on (what patterns/schemas) are seen time and time again in those folks who seem to partner with narcissists. Some of the schemas mentioned are: self sacrafice, subjugation, abandonment issues, etc…these are typical schemas that get triggered by narcissists. There is NO victim bashing here…the author has specialized her practice toward working with narcissists and people partnered w/ narcissists. She readily conceeds, the kind of defenses and lack of maturity that is inherent in Narcississm…drives most clinicians wacky too. She was sorely tested in the beginning wi/ the first few encounters she had in her practice (it is generally frowed upon in the profession to spend a session fantasizing about chocking your client to death). She was triggered and frustrated in all the ways we are, and she was not dating these people! There is a WAY to tend to yourself so that someone elses garbage does not stink up your own emotional state. One is to recognize it and stay away; but it’s always a good idea to learn how to ground yourself no matter what crazy making person you come up against.

The way our society operates today, I think we will only see more and more unhealthy narcissism…the ME generation has swung a little too far and it needs to swing back and settle into a balance again. We celebrate individuality, autonomy, being self made, materialistic success…we all have instant access to porn on our desktops (I don’t know why men even bother to leave the computer and seek companionship anymore, what an inefficient waste of tiem when you have everything right on your computer screen) famliy life is old fashioned/silly, image and career are emphasized over human connection. In the counseling profession, in the 50s, the trend in therapy was about people who self sacraficed for family or kids or their country etc., so much so that they came to therapy feelings conlficted and drained and lost. The fantasy of doing something for yourself was so threatening that people would go to therapy to see if they were insane, classic neurosis.

Now, therapists are seeing just the opposite, a lot of narcissism and the insistence that everything be OUR way seems to be the trend, and if it’s not, something must be terribly wrong. The sense of entilement we have in the country as a whole is sometimes truly shocking. I truly believe the narcissism we have had to face and suffer in our own personal relationships is just part of a greater whole. It use to be, A person’s word meant something, it was considered shameful as an adult to still be lying and sneaking around the way you might have from time to time in your childhood. Now we have reality shows where this kind of means spirited scheming is considered fun, smart, entertainment. We have had a trend of kids raising themselves, latch key kids, daycare kids, kids left to figure life out on their own and turning to other kids for comfort. Kids use to be raised by ADULTS. In the past, The goal was to grow up and be an ADULT. Now, moms are busy getting botox shots so they can look like their teenage daughters. Most of the TV shows today show aults ACTING like teenagers, cause THATS cool and youthful and sexy. Okay…I will get off my soap box now; however, I will say this; when our society decides that being a grown up is once again desirable and even preferable to the fantasy that we can all be “young” forever, we will see less narcissism in our lives.

Hmmmm…that was very thought provoking. I completeley agree that it’s impossible to spot a N , like they were green-cone-headed aliens standing out in a crowd (that’s wishful thinking:)
During my healing journey I have realized and identified a bunch of my problems. I also feel that the N being the N is not going to change but I definitely need to change my way of looking at things. Basically a change of prespective.
I had extremely low self-esteem at the time when I started out my relationship with my N, him being my best friend, obviously knew about my self-esteem issues.

Today, I feel like a much stronger person. More wise (I hope). I do not suffer from low self-esteem. I feel more confident, generally. Even though I feel I’ve become a little paranoid about people, it’s fine as long as it keeps me safe.

Funny thing though, I’ve cut off contact with people who make me uncomfortable. I’m talking about people in the family. An Uncle and two aunts. I do not know whether they are N’s or not but they always made me feel like I was ‘stupid’ or ‘silly’, bascially uncomfortable about myself. So I went no contact with them!

Well said, SMG =) You can take a soapbox here anytime. I always appreciate when you visit and take the time to share. I’m always dreaming of living back in the cavemen days, or living in an indian tribe. Life would be so much different with a tribe for a family, where others pick up the slack where other are deficient. I’d give up technology any day.

SMG wrote:
Patterns/schemas are seen time and time again in those folk who seem to partner with narcissist.Some of those schemas mentioned are:

selfsacrifice
subjugation
abandonment issues,etc…

These are typical schemas that get triggered by narcissist.
I have seen these schemas play themselves out in my life and have come to the realization that i have to take responsibility for my disposition.

Fancynancy,the paranoia comes from your trauma,and as time goes by it turns into a cautious and wary approach to inviting people into our lives on deep levels.