I would like a concise but detailed description of the narcissistic personality . Is there a book or two that you think is best? I lived with a severe narcississ for over 22 years and am really just beginning to recover.
Dear elee08, Sorry to hear about your experience, I know how painfull living with one is, over comming it, is not easy, I wish you well on your journey to recover, be patient with yourself. Sam Vaknins book" Malignant Self Love" is very good at describing a narcissist, he is one. The biggest clue is no empathy, no feelings for how they hurt or impact your life, it is all about them. Thanks to that book, I was able to make some sense of my life and save what little sanity I had left. I do not agree with Sam’s description of the people who love a narcissists, he can not love, so he can not, ever understand loving someone or why we stayed and tried to work it out. We did not have the information, if someone could have told me there were people like this in the world, and they can not be fixed, I sure would not have stayed. You can also do a search for narcissistic personality disorder on line and will find many informative sites to read about them. If you have any questions or would like to talk about anything, I have 40 years in, don’t think I will ever totally get him out of my head but I am sure going to try. Hugs Mamolie
Hi,
Only a qualified mental health diagnostician can determine whether someone
suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and this, following
lengthy tests and personal interviews.
These may be of help - click on the links:
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/1.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/npdglance.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq82.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/narcissismglance.html
You can purchase eight books I wrote about pathological malignant
narcissism, narcissists, and psychopaths - click on this link:
http://samvak.tripod.com/thebook.html
Take care there!
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “elee08” npd-cpt3474@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:01 PM
Subject: [npd] I would like a concise but detailed description of the…
to add to Sams reply, Not many mental health professionals are educted about narcissistic personality disorder. Don’t know where they get the statistic that %1 of the population has this disorder, they rarely if ever seek treatment, becasue there is nothing wrong with them. I am sure if there was more of an awareness with the professionals, the number based on their, victims and partners seeking help would be more accurate of how many there are out there. I gave off many clues and red flags to every therapist we went to, especially the lask of empathy, not one of them talked about a personality disorder, he fooled everyone he went to, right now the partner is more qualified than a professional because they have lived it, sadly, they know more than the mental health professionals about this disorder at this point in time. I do hope that they put more time and research into to this and come up with something to help them and us. It is a terrible disorder for everyone, them and the people who come in contact with them, or love them. Mamolie
It is rather 'sad and pathetic' to even respond to your posts, susiejob. Clearly, we don't even speak the same language so what's the point of talking?
CZ
Damn straight you cannot reply on an honest level. That is what is most disgusting aspect of you and a few others who have shown up.
Some here actually have to deal with pathological liars. Makes me want to vomit that pathological liars such as yourself cannot be honest.
Your perceptions are absolutely preposterous and may I add: Malicious.
Please find another target for your vitriole (like the padded walls in your cell) because your conversations with me are Finished.
CZ
CZBZ - psycobabble. You obviously have reasons not to be honest. Why does that challenge you?
Right on, Mamolie. I totally agree. Therapists know the medical term for narcissistic personality disorder, but unless they live with one, they don’t have a clue as to the destruction caused in the lives of those who live with them. Two therapists definately knew my husband was a narcissist, but were both truly shocked when they knew the degree of mental abuse I was subjected to. I totally agree 100% with Mamolie.
Mariel Lee
Narcissistic personality disorder is a term created by medical and academic professionals to describe a set of specifically defined symptoms and characteristics…
When the symptoms and characteristics don’t fit the the medical and academic definition, it simply isn’t Narcissistic personality disorder.
GD
NPD per the DSM ONLY defines behaviors. PERIOD!!! Sam describes himself in order to sell a book!!
Neurology,endocrinology, onocology, pharmacology, etc etc. journals describe SAME behaviors with causes. They do NOT have all the answers to everything but GD, this behaviors are brain disorders resulting from dysfunction of the frontal lobes of the brain. There are many things that can cause it - but the effect is the same. The problem is physical.
Want to play poor victim, poor female abused? No, step up to plate!
Current thinking is that personality disorders as such are largely environmental in origin.
Only Psychopathy is in any way established as largely neurological (I personally believe it is by the way), and heavily related to frontal lobe malfunction, and it isn’t listed in the DSM. (Uner Irish law, in judicial terms, at least until recently, the term “personality disorder” pretty much meant “psychopath” and nothing else)
A lot of mental disorders such as bipolar, schizophrenia, and the autistic spectrum disorders are considered to be physical in origin.
It is important to make the distinction, for instance OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) is biological in origin, and OCPD (obsessive compulsive personality disorder) environmental in origin, are two totally different condition, with different causes presenting different symptoms…
GD
Blitxen
Current thinking is that personality disorders such as NPD and APD are frontal lobe disorders. Executive Syndrome dysfunction. Who is current?
Today I have been reading into frontal lobe epilepsy - violent explosions and the rages!!
You have to dig to get to the scientists. They are the top intellect. Trust me, I was married to one. They live in their own world to those of their level that they can relate to. They do not write simplistic answers for the mediocrity. Most of the world is actually frustration that they avoid. Mediocrity is beyond a bore! And I am even now frustrated and bored with it too.
The scientist with the ultimate brain and intellect, figures it out. But then he has to prove himself through laboratory experiments AND he has to be challenged, his studies replicated, his theories challenged.
The scientist is about 20 years+ ahead - he is actually the true intellectual and ultimate authority. He teaches the doctors (MDs) in med school to be his technician. People do not understand this about our system - capitalism drives medicine and science in this country. They think the MD is the authority when he actually hold a master’s degree in equivalent.
Anyway, the scientists are proving that personality problems as defined by the DSM are frontal lobe brain damage of many various origins.
Go on Oprah and stone them? Or be a victim or be a truly loving compassionate responsible human being for thy brother. Judge not least ye be judged.
Want to really help? Support academic freedom to our scientists so they can pursue the truth to these problems.
And I tell, they leave this country in droves (brain drain) because most are idiots who have no appreciation for truth.
"Judge not least ye be judged."
Oh REALLY now?!!
Duh....Thanks for sharing your spiritual wisdom there, susiejo. Even if you're speaking down to us idiot types.
CZ
Oh speaking down? So I should drop intellectual level and emotional level to yours? Otherwise, I am the shit?
No my dear. Step up to plate or shut up. You are like Sam, an internet groupie with nothing to make you anything in the real world.
Again, what is your motivation and goal in being here?
Want glory that you are cannot achieve anywhere else? So sad and pathetic.
Ah Susiejo,
I do know there was some REALLY “out there” stuff that even goes as far as to attribute some forms of Alcoholism and Addiction to frontal lobe disorder…
But, as yet, even psychopathy isn’t quite tied to truly biological origins.
For myself, across the board, I tend to subscribe to the “school of many causes”…and believe that most things can be caused in more than one way, even autism…
There is a staggering amount of evidence to relate personality disorders to abuse and trauma. Look at the Romainian orphans and Multisystem Dysfunction Disorder (or whatever name they finally settled on. That’s the most dramatic example.
Hey. here’s a thought…wouldn’t it be much more fun (as well as more worthwhile) if you and I put on the gloves, refreshed our minds about the “Queensbury Rules” and duked it out in a civilised fashion over “Nature Versus Nurture” rather than all the head games round here?
There may even be a few other people with the intellect and integrity to join in. Because I think THAT is probably what boards like this SHOULD be used for…
Though, of course, nature nurture DOES tend to wind up rather heated…
Still…as we obviously have opposing views and no personal agenda at all it might set a good example?
GD
"Still...as we obviously have opposing views and no personal agenda at all it might set a good example? "
O yes, goodie-goodie! Please, will you both set us a good example and show us the way??!!!
CZ
In her usual mature, adult way, CZBZ said:
O yes, goodie-goodie! Please, will you both set us a good example and show us the way??!!!
And I say…
Heaven knows, you could use it…
GD
To CZBZ:
I am new to all of this and I am really not impressed with the likes of Blitzen and Suzie whoever; like my narcissistic ex-husband use to say, “intelligence is over-rated.” I really don’t give a damn about what lobe on the brain is affected, all I know is that people diagnosed with pathological narcissism are abusive, and it is debilitating to their victims, and unless these self-proclaimed geniuses have a cure for this disorder, I don’t need hear about the medical jargon. I already know it.
My advice to you CZBZ, is not to communicate with the likes of these people, in my opinion, they remind me of when I argued with my ex-husband, the narcissist. Who the hell needs to come on this forum and listen to the likes of them?
But mariel lee,
In some cases, there are cures for such problems. And if there wasn’t, you would at least know what in the world you are really are dealing with. Very important if you have young children by that person.
You may not want to hear it but some women out there need their husbands to be working and helping support their families. You know, divorce is the fast track for a single mom to get on the poverty roles. Such is how her kids will grow up with odds against them of having worse problems than they had their parents maintained a dysfunctional relationship. Such people might be interested in any possibility that could save them from that.
Some out there have children with their NPDs. They can divorce them but cannot change the biological parents once it has happened. So those kids are still at the mercy. Some trips to the right doctor might enable those kids to have a happy, decent childhood.
So just because you are not interested, does not mean that others do not.