Is he messing with me? Just wondering

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

I have heard from N in the last week, and I always end up wondering why? He was so cruel, made it obvious he didn’t want me around, he was constantly looking for new women and he’s found one that’s considerably younger, like 25 years younger!

Is he not happy if he’s not messing with me? We have been together on and off for 5 years, been apart as long as six months, would reconcile, break up, make up, etc. I gave up at the 5 year mark, and there is nothing he can do to change it. I told him of this decision. All I can say is this… it has been the worst relationship of my life. Things got so bad earlier this summer that the good times I no longer remember.

Everytime I thought it couldn’t get worse, it did. I guess his goal was to make sure it got worse. So, why is he still contacting me? I have been following the no contact rule for almost 2 months now. I feel no desire to call him, see him or the like. The messages consisted of “hi lady” and are you out there miss (my name) and I was thinking is it genuine niceness or is he messing with me… my conclusion? he is messing with me.

#2

I am just trying to deal with my ex and the more I read from others I am beginning to wonder why my situation is so different. She is the very strong N and has been so mean and cruel and does so many things to intentionally hurt me. She is so nice to everyone else but to me she is so mean and her tone is so hurtful and cruel. My problem is that I am the one still trying to get back with her. She does not do anything to contact me, but when we do talk I am nice as can be and trying to talk about good things then she just brings up things from the past and acts like I mean absolutely nothing to her. I try to make her laugh and see how good we used to be together and all she does is bring up things that happened so many years ago and she keeps saying how wrong we were for each other and how bad things got between us. Well, things were up and down for a while but I truly have never loved anyone as I loved her. She used to be so good and she treated me wonderfully and cared about me like nobody ever had before.

What is wrong with me that I am trying to still be with her, I do love her so much but I don’t love how she treats me.

Any suggestions?

#3

DRMOM & Fooled, you are both in different stages of recovery. I think the hardest thing about recovering from an N relationship is accepting, REALLY accepting their mental illness. Not allowing your own feelings to color the situation. Keeping reality in front of you at all times.

That means the calls and contact mean nothing DRMOM, it’s just more of the same. He’s not messing with you, he simply can’t help himself. I know first hand how the phone calls and emails can mess with your peace of mind. However, you sound like you have a really good start on the healing process. I’m proud of you for not contacting him, be proud of yourself too.

Fooled, please let go of this woman. There’s nothing left for you to do, stop hurting yourself. Please, love you and let go. I know it’s easier said than done. Honestly I do. And most of the people here in relationships with N’s no that it’s extemely hard to let go. It’s like some nasty drug addiction and you need time to detox. And withdrawal is going to be hell but the only person who can give you that time is you. Have courage and admit that you’re afraid to be without her. How many times have I looked in the mirror and asked the question “what am I going to do now?” It’s like you give and give till there’s nothing left of you and nothing you do is good enough. I know you are holding on to the good times in the hope that you will have that again one day. We have all done this! There’s something about the psychological trauma from an N that keeps us coming back. Maybe someone else here can give you more insight into the psychological trauma. I’m not certain that if you stop contacting her she won’t start contacting you! Do the research and really learn about this disorder. Try to stay strong and take care of yourself. Remember the only way out is through.

I have a few articles that I read when I’m feeling weak. When I start thinking romantically or start hoping that the attempts at contact mean something. When you’re a kind loving person it’s so hard to understand that some people are just empty inside. Remember who and what you’re dealing with, never allow yourselves to forget, never doubt it.

#4

You are right, I AM afraid of being without her. We met tonight for dinner and a drink and of course it got to the conversation of what I did, but when I brought up what she did, she walked away and left the restaurant. I followed her and tried to talk with her and she said she was going to call the police or someone else for help if I didn’t leave her alone.

It got ugly and I am so hurt and confused with what has happened. I actually thought that things were going to get better but she cut it off rather quickly.

Here is the hard part. She has a tumor in her brain and she has already lost the hearing in one ear. She is having MAJOR surgery this coming Wednesday and she has been clear that she doesn’t want me there. Her daughters, whom I am/was very close to, will be there and they “supposedly” don’t want me there because of all that has happened.
I want to be there for her and with her but she told her parents and her daughters that she only wants them there.

I actually thought that we were going to spend this weekend together, especially because of her surgery and all her family coming to town this weekend. Boy, was I wrong. What do I do? She is acting like I am the biggest scum on the earth.

Why do I love her so much? Why do I put up with it? What is wrong with me that I can’t let go of her. Please, PLEASE help me with this. I am so lost.

#5

fooled I am so sorry you are going through this. Did you read my post on Narcissists destroying the lives of others and recovery from living with a narcissists, this will help you understand a little more how she has invaded your heart and mind. How long were you with her? A narcissists is perfect, It is all about them, you are here to serve them, they give nothing back, they can not love anyone. You can not ever talk about your feelings, or point out anything they did to hurt you. They will become defensive and go into rages, You can not talk or work anything out. You can not try to make sense of any of it, it will never make sense to any one but her. Their minds are wired differently than the rest of the world. You have to realize that this is a serious disorder, a mental illness, you can not have the one you think you love, she is a package deal, you never know who will show up up each day and sometimes each hour. There is nothing you can do to make her happy or turn her permenantly into the side of her you fell in love with, the side that makes her look human does not exist. They lack empathy, a human quality that enables you to feel for other people, the ability to relate to other peoples feelings even if you have not experienced those exact feeling. She has no insite into herself and not a clue about the pain and suffering she causes. They truely are from another planet. You are going to have to get to the acceptance stage that she has this disorder and there is nothing you can do to fix her. If she has this disorder, I feel so sorry for her daughters, no one would ever be able to live up to her unrealistic expectations of the humans in her life.They have to be suffering also. Does her family notice anything with her, or has she trained them through the years to put up with her. Thinking about it my husband was nice to his mother and his family, treated me and our kids like crap.That could go either way, but not for her daughters, she had to be hard on them too. This is not going to be easy for you, you are not alone, others are going through this also.First step is understanding and accepting she has this disorder and there is nothing you can do. Some one wrote that recovery is harder than dealing with their N, it is hard but trust me it is even more devastating as the years pile on. Try looking at soon to be 41 years of marriage and find out you meant absolutley nothing, your patience, love and understanding meant nothing, he did not even notice anything you did, you meant nothing at all. Last year when I faced this,the grief of a wasted life was so overwhelming, I did not think I was going to be able to pull myself out of it. Then I got mad and decided I still have some life left in me and I deserve to live for myself, I have to make the most of it, he can not have my entire life. He did not win, he did not destroy me. Don’t let her destroy you. What also makes this so hard is, who do you hate, them, or the disorder they don’t know they have. You can’t get closure or justice, I gave enough, I deserve to live my life now for me. You have to start thinking about yourself and getting back into life, she will drain and kill your spirit. When you feel weak, I am here, I can tell you what 41 years of hell is like, you don’t want to live it. Hugs mamolie

#6

well I am here again. only it’s not about N, its about my sisters boyfriend. he is 40 years old and bipolar. last night he wouldn’t come inside the house and he slept in the garage and told her last night he was leaving her. today we celebrated her birthday and he left today. he has had a job for two days now, but has been mooching off of her. his ego is through the roof. my N did this kind of thing to me as well. he would be unemployed for four months and asked my help in finding him a job. when he got the job, he split, left for another woman. I was so hurt. Fooled, this is for you: don’t think that it has been an easy road for any of us in this group. the hurt, the pain, the confusion, we have all been through it. I have fallen to the lowest points in my life b/c of N. Began drinking day and night… the lowest point in my life was when I wanted to end my life… and actually took steps to do it. My son was sleeping in the room next door… and I looked into his room, and instead of going into the kitchen I crawled in bed with him and held him. my little boy saved my life that night. he is nine years old now… he was probably 5 when that happened. think about the precious people in your life. the people that really do care about you and need you!

#7

Mamolie, thank you for your insight and for helping me understand more about how it is to be with a N and how they just don’t care about how much they hurt the people around them. That sure is something that is hard for me to understand, logically, that people can (usually intentionally) hurt the people closest to them but yet they don’t actually know that they are doing it.
To answer your questions about my N, we were together almost 9 years and realistically out of a typical month, we may have had 8-10 “good” days and the rest of the month, each and every month, I was pretty much walking on eggshells or having to kiss up to her to make up for something I did or to try to get her un-mad for some stupid thing I did that got her mad in the first place. That was my life, but yet I truly love/loved her so much and when things were good, they were absolutely fantistic but when they were bad, OMG, they were ugly. I was around when her daughters were growing up and I did see her treat her daughters almost as bad as she treated me when there were problems. Her daughters even told her one time that all their friends didn’t want to go to spend the night with them because they didn’t want to deal with their “psycho” mom. When they told her that during an argument, she just said “good, I’m glad”.

Drmom, I do understand that everyone in this forum is going through terrible things and I’m sure that there are some with much more serious issues than what I describe. I think the hardest thing for me is trying to understand how a human being can be so mean to people that love them and want to be with them. I really just can’t understand it…it is so hard for my brain to comprehend how that can be. I am seeing a counselor and she is trying to help me with all this and some days I feel good after our session, and some days I feel kind of lost. You are right that I need to look at other people in my life that do love me and care about me and how I have probably not been appreciating them as much as I should.

Oh, and BTW, during our argument she made a point while trying to demean me even more that she was not going to let me get to her because she loves herself too much and she is important and she is worth being treated better and she is wonderful and no matter what else is going on in her life, she knows that she is important and she loves herself and is happy with herself. I even told her that I know she loves herself and that because of how much she loves herself, she doesn’t allow someone else to love her because in her mind, they can’t love her as much as she loves herself. It just went in one ear and out the other. Didn’t even make a dent in her armor. I think I am finally getting to the point that I just need to walk away and quit trying. She just craps all over me anyway and I’m stupid enough to keep going back for more.

Thank you all for listening and trying to help me get through this mess. It sure isn’t something I ever thought I could happen to me, but I’m sure you all feel that same way too. Thanks for your help and understanding, I really appreciate it.

#8

Fooled, I hear where you are coming from. I do the same thing, I just don’t want to let go. It’s crazy, I feel crazy and can’t admit it to anyone in this group. I know that my ex n isn’t good for me and he doesn’t love me. yet i find myself having conversations with him whenever he is in nice mode about how we should try again or why doesn’t he come and stay the night. i would be so embarrased if anyone knew this because he has been so awful to me, we just spend the entire week arguing over when he was getting our kids etc. he was a total jerk to me all week then he has that nice sounding voice and bam i am trying to win him back. Even 2 weeks ago, i don’t know what came over me. we were meeting up so we could exchange the girls and once i put our daughter in his car I said, “so can i have a hug”? he said no and so i shut the door thinking he was kidding. he wasn’t, he left me standing there in the parking lot feeling so foolish! i was so upset, i so just want things to be normal. yet i know they can’t!

one thing i have found from my theraphy is that this is the type of loved i learned as i was growing up. my mom was not very loving at all, i don’t remember her kissing or hugging me EVER. my dad was affectionate yet was rarely around. so i learned that even if i am treated poorly and still fight for love and affection. i am trying to re-learn how to be loved in a healthy way. like loving myself and knowing that if someone doesn’t love me back, i move on as opposed to sticking around for punishment.

i mean you said you only had like 8 days out of the month you were happy? do you really love her? what maybe do you love about her? i wish i could make myself back off and find someone who loves me back respectfully but first i think i need to learn to love myself and figure out what drew me and continues to keep me addicted to this other type of love.

just my thoughts.

#9

Momoftwins, this is one place you do not have to be embarassed, we all know how hard this is. We have all been there and feel your pain. Sharing your story helps others know they are not alone and getting away is not easy. It is good you are getting counseling and learning some things about yourself, but these people can invade even the most healthy well adjusted people also. They are masters at manipulating anyone to get their needs met. Don’t be afraid to post, we will support and help you any way we can, we do know how you feel, we are all trying to deal with it and we are all in different stages of recovery. Hugs mamolie

#10

Oh thank you, i actually re-read my post and realized that I worded it wrong. I meant I am embarrased to tell anyone outside of this group. I was on ADD medicine for the 1st time yesterday and felt outside of my head. =) That is why I posted so that fooled would know that he is not alone, it happens to the best of us

#11

Hi All,
Okay, I really need your help on this one, I am very upset and don’t know what to do. If you read one of my responses in this conversation I mentioned that my ex was going to have a tumor removed from her brain today, and it went well and she is doing fine, however something else happened that is really upsetting me.

Well, she got through it fine and her daughter sent an email out to all her friends and family with an update. What upset me was that on that email list is the guy that she slept with earlier this year, the day after she and I had been together (after we got back together earlier this year). I don’t know if you read or know my story but if you do, then you will know how much this is killing me. I can’t believe that she had her daughter put him on the email list with all of us that are close to her, close friends and family.

I am so upset and have been crying because I feel that she is doing it on purpose just to hurt me. She now knows that I know who he is, I finally told her that I know who he is just this past weekend. She was shocked that I knew about him and his name and now she includes him on the email list! I am so upset…how can she be so mean? Why is HE on the list, she doesn’t love him and he doesn’t love her, I know that. What do I do??? I am crushed. Is she just playing a mean, cruel game with my heart? I am so tempted to email him but I know that would probably be the worst thing I could do, but I am just so upset that she did that, especially knowing that I would see his name on the list. How do I handle this??

#12

I wish there was something I could say to ease your pain. I read your story and it sounds alot like mine. When I discovered my Ex-N had 2 other girlfriends I was devasted. I have been around the longest. I’m familiar with his family etc. When I was officially out of the picture he wasted no time introducing the next girl to family. Even they were like “What the hell!”. Take into account that I found this out from his family and it makes it even crazier. I cried and cried, I wondered what was wrong with me and why couldn’t he love and accept me? Is there something wrong with me? What does she have that I don’t? Then someone on this forum told me that I am the equivalent of a refrigerator, he opens the door and takes what he needs and more importantly that he treats everyone that way. Though it hurts like hell comparing myself to a refrigerator keeps things in perspective. There’s nothing wrong with me. Those women are not getting anything more than what I got, I just found out about the lies they still don’t know. I’m in the light and they are in the dark. He has nothing to offer anyone, he’s a Narcissist and will never be faithful. And when he’s old and bald and the ladies are no longer interested his mean, devalueing behavior could get worse! I know the rejection is very painful, I know that you love her dearly, and I’m sorry that she can’t see your value. But you need to see your own value. Cry if you need to, grieve and grieve until you get it all out. There’s nothing you can do about this. But if you continue to persue her you run the risk of seriously hurting yourself. All these years it’s been about her. Choose you for a change. There’s nothing wrong with you! Her excuses are designed to keep you at a distance, I’ve read over and over again how the N’s eventually run off everyone who cares about them. Don’t contact this man. Ask yourself why you still care so much about someone who cares so little for you? It’s a legitimate question and you may not like the answer. But it’s a step in the right direction, a step toward healing. Let her go, if you gotta cry and scream to do it, then cry, scream! Be angry be upset, you have a right to your feelings. This is bullcrap! And you know what, you may always lover her, but that doesn’t give you the right to be stupid. Take care of you. Feel free to send me a message if you like. I still do alot of screaming and crying myself.

#13

I am wondering if once your relationship with N is over, if he/she goes out and buys a bunch of new stuff or makes some other changes in his/her life? As much as N and I broke up/made up, every time we were apart he would buy a new car, sell an old car, do something he had mentioned doing to me several times, but never did. He wanted me to buy him a fancy grill on many occasions, but I refused… as soon as we were broken up though, he went out and bought that fancy, new grill, a new phone for the house, moved the furniture around, gave his daughter a futon from the living room to sleep on, etc… How many times he mentioned moving that futon out of the living room and into hers… only he waits until I am gone (and we are back together for me to realize) that he moves it into her room. I just think this is such odd behavior and I have seen it over and over with him. Is this a pattern of N’s? The N that was in my life is strictly a “patterned guy”. I guess another word for it is RIGID. He would call four times a day every day for one month, at pretty much the same time each day, then quit calling altogether the next month. Also, Him and his new young girlfriend have had their first falling out (I found out from a reliable source). The circumstances behind the falling out were so similar to our first, that I almost fell over. I was so afraid he would contact me, but he only does that when he feels he has the power to do so. I don’t think when he and her were apart, he felt the power to mess with me. I know he won’t give up on her anytime soon.

#14

DRMOM, I don’t know about the breakup thing personally and how they behave, I was a trouper or in a stupor, I stayed married and sure put up with the rigid thinking and crazy behavior. Mine had a obsession with keeping the basement clean. I had two built in cupboards, one under the steps where I stored sewing patters and some of the kids toys and another one I kept the Christmas decorations and tree in. First time he did this to me, I came home and he was cleaning out and throwing all the Christmas stuff out. He started yelling at me and telling me I had too much junk as I am pleading not to throw so many things out. I could not understand why he was doing that and why he was so mad about Christmas decorations. He always waited till I was not home to do this to me, next time all my sewing patterns and supplies stored under the steps. He left the kids toys. I did not know he did this till I went looking to make a doll, I had a few porcelian doll heads, I made the bodies and cloths for them, gone he threw everything away. I was upset this time and asked why he did that. Anger and Yelling I had to much junk in the basement.Now I get this, It was not the basement, it was my stuff he was after, last time I was helping my friend move and clean her town house she moved from. I had a space set up for doing stain glass and a small cabinet full of patterns that I had accumulated for years. I worked for a company for 11 years doing custon stain glass and taught classes. He threw them all away and a lot of glass because I had to much junk. This time I was mad and told him to never throw another thing of mine away ever again, he had no right to throw my stuff away. He laughed at me and tried to get the last word in, you have junk, and I said MY JUNK not yours. He has not done that since. This man never cleaned a thing in the house or took a glass to the kitchen. So they do things that only make sense to them. It will never make sense to us, but I know we keep wondering trying to make some sense. He is repeating the routine with her now, he will push away and hover to get her back and it goes on and on, it was not you. Hope he does not start on you again. I hope you are doing better, stay strong. Hugs mamolie

#15

DRMOM, OMG, you hit the nail on the head. Afte we broke up last July she called me once for my birthday, in July, then we emailed a few times in August and she called me once in September, if you here her tell it now, she claims that she was trying to get back together with me for 3 months, well, I told her that once a month contact isn’t exactly trying for the whole month. Anyway that is how she sees it. SO, you are so right about them changing everything. She says that once I “didn’t try anymore” after the Sept. phone call, she decided to move on with her life. Well, she started working out, she started losing weight and she was really changing her life. Of course we did not see each other from July to January so I didn’t know all this was happening. She also painted every room in her house, we had talked about doing that so many times and then she does it when we’re broken up. She started buying all new clothes, makeup, shoes, lingerie, she started wearing thongs instead of the old trusty granny panties, she really bought beautiful, sexier clothes, more jewelry and everything and anything that made her feel better. I have to say that after we got back together this year she really told me all the stuff she did differently and how she did things so that she would feel good. They all made her feel good.

However, she also spent a lot of money on credit cards and really got into a lot more debt. Here is the icing on the cake. We got back together in Feb. of this year and she was totally a different person than she used to be, I was still so in love with her and I loved her for who she was. She lost 45 pounds and was dressing so beautifully and I was just amazed.

Well, in May, she got a boob job, a brow lift and an eyelid lift or tuck or something like that. Now, we had always talked about getting her a boob job, we used to tease and laugh about it years ago. Well, she went on and did it and didn’t tell me she was going to do it until just about a month before she did it. The part that I loved the most after we got back together was that she was not as angry a person as she used to be. She was more patient and in her words she was “trying to understand others instead of just trying to be understood”, something like that. Of course after a few months of us being back together, some, but not all, of her angry self came back and her cold and hurtful person came out again too, you know, the hurting others (me) on purpose being mean, cruel, etc.

So, DRMOM, you are the first one to point out this peculiar thing that they do, buy new stuff, change a lot of what they used to do, etc. She used to say “well, what I was doing wasn’t working, so, I’m going to do the opposite”. That was her outlook, kind of extreme if you ask me.
So, here we are, broken up again, I still love her and want her and wish we were still together. Even after all that she has done to me, how she cheated on me with someone else the day after we were “together” and she never apologized for it or showed any remorse for it. She still sees him and talks to him and is nicer to him than she is to me. I was at her house on at least 3 ocassions when he called and she took his calls and was laughing and happy just like she used to be with me. After all the fights we’ve had since then and the stupid arguements and old topics we have already fought about years ago, I still want her back. I truly love her so much. I will say though, I do NOT want the abuse anymore but I do what her. Gee, didn’t we talk about crumbs of love somewhere earlier in one of these conversations. I still think of those crumbs being the whole relationship, but I know I’m fooling myself.

#16

I think I understand it but it is difficult to explain. N’s do make changes when relationships fail. It is just the wrong changes. The problem is that they cannot honestly introspect and assess their actions on others. But they do try to make some determination or find reason for the failing. It typically becomes everyone else’s fault, especially the partners, not theirs.

Just before leaving, mine had not been working. We were financially strained of course. He went back to work and guess what, they messed up his first month’s paycheck and he just couldn’t get them to pay him for that time worked. Yea right - he first went out and bought himself all new clothes - he was chasing a new female. Mine ultimately blamed the state he lived in and thus, ran away to a new place in Florida - center of tourism which to me, was like a fantasy land. He created a new persona. Over the time I got no child support and the kids got next to nothing, he refurnished his home twice, bought scuba gear for a girlfriend and himself, twice. Bought a sailboat even which was something I always wanted, not him. Thing is, he was making changes in efforts to make his life right, or at least look right. They just were the wrong changes.

During our marriage, he had to have the expensive clothes because he was the provider - necessary in his career to make more money for us right. I laugh now that I am the one who gets all those expensive clothes. (He just died) Problem is that they are his, male, and do not fit me. But I still now have the expensive clothes and he has none where he is.

N’s still want love and turn around and pursue it. I think this may be why they tend to be unfaithful. Their ego’s are very screwed up - they need that supply feed to them. To have a lasting relationship with them, always compliment them, never point out their wrongs or shortcomings. Keep your relationship at first base where the romance is occurring - if you can, which most of us cannot. The more you push them to be something they cannot be - personally responsible, the more you actually push them away from you and to someone else.

#17

I am glad others of you have felt or seen this happen and could provide some insight into it. when it continually happens, I just had to wonder if it happened to others. I think N is the strangest person I have ever met, with the patterns and “new life” stuff. I guess it gave him a feeling of new life to do this? I do appreciate your responses and input. It has been over 3 months since I have heard his voice and even longer since I have seen him. Being strong is hard. But I think about the reasons “why” I am doing this a lot of the time. The last time I heard from him was July 19, when he sent me a text message. I ignored the messages he sent that day, and I guess he got the idea that I am moving on. As far as the internet goes, he has absolutely no way to contact me, he has been blocked from every angle.

#18

You should be proud of yourself DRMOM. You are staying strong and that is good, especially knowing how difficult that is, believe me. It has been one week today since I last saw my ex in the hospital. I have not had any contact with her since. I did get an email from her daughter giving all her friends and family an email update about her mom but that was it. I want to see her and be with her, especially now that she is at home but my counselor and I talked this week about all the things that have been happening and I agreed to do a minimum of 30 days with no contact, it is so hard for me especially with her health and her surgery recovery. I want to be there, she’s probably thinking that I don’t care, wondering why I haven’t called or gone by, but she kept telling me that she will be fine and she will get through it and she had lots of people supporting her and helping her. She really kind of pushed me away the two times I saw her in the hospital, she was really nice to everyone else but to me, she was kind of cold, or short with me. I don’t know, maybe it’s just me.

Stay strong, I am trying to and it is very difficult for me because of how much I do care about her and love her and I would love to be around her daughters and family too, we have all done so much together over the past 9 years, I wish I could be there.

Okay, only 3 and a half weeks to go, but I’m going to try to not contact her at all, the counselor thinks she will contact me before the 30 days are up, I guess we’ll have to wait and see…

Thank you all for your kind and helpful words. It sucks that we all are going through this in our lives…I don’t think any of us deserve this at all.

#19

momoftwinscolorado - OMG! I read your reply and got hit between the eyes with the memories of the number of times I asked for a hug and he said “no” - I asked if I could sit beside him on the couch and he said “maybe later” - I leaned over to kiss him and he turned his head!!! Thank you! I think I become so overwhelmed with the analysis of all of this, that I forget some of these “small” things, and shouldn’t. How demeaning!!! Why are we allowing this??? I wrote a whole post on the disconnected sex - it was the same sort of feeling - but I had buried this and I thank you for bringing it to the forefront, where it needs to be.
Angie

#20

I got the same reactions when asking for a kiss or hug. Then mine would complain that I was never warm and affectionate. I remember calling him at work to see how his day was and getting cursed horridly for interrupting him when he was doing something very important. So I stopped calling. He then complained I never called him.