On heterogeneity and civility

Depression
#41

TY Lindy (I think you are responding to me?),

Due to chemo, you will have to eat more for me-just PLEASE! No whipped creme on the pumpkin pie!! I could urp typing THAT!

I will most likely be spending time with my AA family- my own offers love, to be sure, but no bonding or connection. My experience with holidays and my family historically has left me to deliberately reduce my expectations to nothing-and I still get burned. Too much alcohol is consumed. I do not fit in now, and will not tolerate the arguments that are the biggest family tradition we have. I learned to wish the holidays would pass quickly at an early age.

Fortunately today I have choices I do not feel guilty about. Even when my mom passed, I made a decided effort to be present for my Dad. A disaster of epic proportions and extremely toxic to me-quite an emotional toll. I did what my conscience told me I should, what I felt my Mom would want. Now, I don’t feel she thinks I should place myself in a position that is so BAD for me.

Everyone has choices. My family has choices. I have choices. I CANNOT do the TV family holidays dinner crap. It almost never existed growing up, and does not exist today. I refuse to pretend anymore, and only gave in when my mom died. Back to reality for me!!!

Enjoy and be safe. I’m going to do my damnedest or just spend the day in bed with my Chicken and Stars.

ENJOY WHAT YOU HAVE, FOR YOU HAVE MUCH.

(Edited because Spellcheck AIN’T ALL THAT!)

#42

GraceD

what I wrote in my later edited post was that I come from a solid loving family in which there was regular conflict, always respect, despite being passionate, and always resolved without any grudges.

“Embracing conflict can become a joy when we know that irritation and frustration can lead to growth and fascination”

Thomas F. Crum, The Magic of Conflict

Thats what I bring to this table.

I think my faith in the goodness of humanity, and in the benefits of giving 2nd or more chances served me well until my last relationship when I learned there really are genuinely self-interested and cruel people who take those chances and use them to further their own wants.  That is, that not everyone comes in good faith.

And so it would be easy to give in to that kind of cynicism here.  One can only extend their hand in resolution and peacemaking and have it bitten so many times before one gets the idea there IS no good faith.

 But I'm  not at that point yet.  I'm still hopeful that conflict can and should be the beginning of creating mutual understanding -- and personal growth.

My offering of entering into that kind of interaction still stands, despite the most recent digs.  I have faith hearts will soften soon.

 

Call me an optimist, I dont know.  It took me a long time to give up hope in my abusive relationship too, maybe thats just part of my character, to hang on and turn the other cheek for longer than I should.  There are certainly worse things to be cursed with than optimism....or faith?

#43

PHOENIXX, I NEVER MEANT TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION I WAS NOT OPTIMISTIC RE: CP'rs COMING TOGETHER IN UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE. WHAT I MEANT TO EMPHASIZE TO ALL WAS THAT WE EACH DEAL WITH DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS THAT a) GOT US HERE AND b) MAY STILL INFLUENCE OUR PERCEPTIONS AND RESPONSES. "GETTING" THAT HOPEFULLY WILL LEAD TO A GREATER UNDERSTANDING AND COMPASSION FOR EACH OTHER.

AS I INDICATED, I HAD A MUCH DIFFERENT BACKGROUND IN REGARDS TO FAMILY DYNAMICS. I GREW UP IN AN ALCOHOLIC HOME WHERE MY DAD WAS ALSO WHAT YOU'D CALL A RAGE-AHOLIC. I DID NOT MEAN TO PROJECT PESSIMISM RE: THE CURRENT HOLI"DAZE", JUST ACCEPTANCE AND REALISM. THEY IS WHAT THEY IS, AND BEING WHO I AM TODAY, WILL DO WHAT I NEED TO DO TO STAY HEALTHY MENTALLY. IT IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR MY CHEMO TREATMENT AS WELL TO DO SO. AND THIS TIME OF YEAR HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BAD TIME OF YEAR FOR ME EVEN WITHOUT S.A.D! I HATE BEING SINGLE AND ALONE FOR CHRISTMAS (DRIPPING SELF PITY THIS TIME OF YEAR!). I GUESS IT'S MORE PRONOUNCED WITHOUT FAMILY CLOSENESS. AND OF COURSE I AM PRESUMING A LOT WITH THAT- I ONCE HELD OUT (WE BOTH HELD OUT) BREAKING UP WITH SOMEONE JUST BECAUSE "IT'S CHRISTMAS TIME!" OY VEY! NEEDLESS TO SAY, A GREAT SIGH OF RELIEF IS HEARD ON THE 2ND OF JANUARY!!!

I FIND THE KNOWLEDGE I HAVE CHOICES TODAY EMPOWERING AND OPTIMISM AT IT'S GREATEST. IT'S EASY TO FORGET AND FEEL TRAPPED UNTIL I REMEMBER ONCE MORE. I CANNOT OR WILL NOT LIVE MY LIFE FOR OTHER PEOPLE, OR IN FEAR OF OTHER'S CRITICISM. ONLY THE PPL I RESPECT AND TRUST GET ANY SERIOUS CONSIDERATION OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK OR CONCERN. THEN THERE IS MY GUT-IT SPEAKS VOLUMES TO ME IF I'M OFF COURSE.

IN THE OLD DAYS, THE MORE I RAN FROM THAT INNER VOICE, THE SICKER I BECAME. BUT BECAUSE I WAS RAISED IN A SHAME BASED DYNAMIC, IT WAS NOT SOMETHING I COULD DO IN ANY HEALTHY, UNBIASED WAY. ADMITTING GUILT/WRONG IS NEVER FUN, BUT IT WAS MY OWN OVER THE TOP EMOTIONAL THRASHING - "RAKE ME OVER THE COALS" BEATINGS I COULD'NT HANDLE. I HELD MORE SELF HATRED THAN I CAN CONCIEVE OF TODAY, BUT I FEEL IT LURK STILL, LIKE OCTOPUSSY ALIENS TENTACLES SEARCHING FOR AN OPENING ON THE PRESUMED DOOMED SPACESHIP! OLD BEHAVIORS ARE DIFFICULT TO TRULY BREAK AND OLD SELF CONCEPTS ARE EVEN HARDER!

OK, I TOOK A HUGE DETOUR THERE, LOL. WELL YOU SAID YOU WANTED ME TO POST...! AND I MAY BE WAY OFF, BUT YOU MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE RAISED IN THAT TYPE OF FAMILY SETTING, SO WHY ARE YOU HERE???? ; ) JUST KIDDING, REALLY!

NOW I'M RAMBLING, AND CLUELESS TO WHERE THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE GOING, BUT AGAIN I'LL LEAVE IT FOR CP CONSUMPTION.

WHO KNOWS? I MAY COME BACK, READ MY BABBLING WITH HORROR AND DELETE IT ALL! ITHINK MY BLOOD SUGAR IS LOW, PROBABLY. LET ME EAT, RESET AND COME BACK AND SEE! LOL!

AND FROM ONE WHO WAS "TAUGHT" IT WAS HALF EMPTY AND IT WAS PROBABLY MY FAULT - NOR COULD I FIX IT RIGHT! AND IN TOTAL CONTRAICTION TO MY HILDAY 'WHINE"-

I NOW KNOW I CAN CHOOSE TO THINK DIFFERENTLY AND HAVE FAITH IN MULTIPLICATION. THAT IS, WHATEVER I FOCUS ON, NOT ONLY BECOMES MY REALITY, IT MULTIPLIES.

I CHOOSE TO CHOOSE TO FOCUS ON THE GOOD THINGS, SIMPLE NOT EASY. BUT INFINITLY BETTER. MY PERCEPTION IS MY PROBLEM AND MY SOLUTION AND THE HARDEST THING TO DO AT TIMES, BUT DO IT I MUST. I'D RATHER BE A POLLYANIC IDIOT THAN A  SELF PITYING PESSIMIST ANY DAY. PLUS, I'D BE A DRUNK ONE AS WELL!

AS FOR EVERYTHING ELSE? THERE'S ALWAYS HOPE AND GRACE.

ME

#44

yes I did ask you to write about you, I like having my image fleshed out more of everyone, I had hoped others would do that too.

I didnt mean to suggest you were telling me not to be optimistic, I was only saying whereas some people find conflict intolerable, it wasnt so in my family of origin, it was how frustration was communicated, hurt feelings, wants and needs. And that resolution was just as common.

So while some here I recognize have difficulty tolerating it, there is also me who has always been witness to its benefit.

So to have it continue with resolution frustrated is not easy. But I’m learning patience. I guess thats the lesson here for me. I dont know, as always, I’m learning as I go.

#45

I try to see the best in people for instance dreen bon lindy and the pheonixxx has been arguing and bickering at times I have seen meanness and and nastiness come out of especailly lindy and dreen but with this I have seen no meaness or nastiness JUST MISUNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER AND HURT at least not on the forum I can’t see pms but not on the forum that is a step in the right direction just as I see that anger and meaness out of them I have also seen love and support come from both dreen and lindy to so calling them the mean girls isn’t fitting either how about bad tempered girls( now only if I could see the best in me) I also try to keep peace at all costs and though I ended up getting hurt by volunteering at the boys and girls club getting the volunteer oppotunity it self was a accomplishment next step is to make clear my goals to my future employers or future places I volunteer for

#46

Vickie
every life experience has a lesson in it, I’m trying to learn that from the book I’m reading right now.

Your comment about the label “mean girls” is well made. I have already written about how loving they are to other members. I used that term loosely and with a little humour (lost in the message I see) because they had only ever been mean to me. It came from MY experience of them. But youre right, my using that term doesnt help things, humour or not. I should be less lazy and type their names out directly each time so theres direct communication, and less antagonism.

Thanks for that.

#47

I think it was Paul who wrote, "Even the Gates of hell shall not prevail against the love of God." My paraphrasing is this, "Nothing will prevail against Genuine Love."

I have a little secret, here it is:

A fully open and compassionate heart is not hurt by "attackers." Instead, when under siege, greater strength, wisdom and compassion manifest.  Healing becomes the focus.

 

 

#48

There’s so much more peace in my life now post-relationship, but I dont think my nervous system or my diaphragm have quite acclimated to it yet. For now its not the absence of tension, but the oxygen of good will.

What does peace mean to you?

#49

When I was with THAT guy (groan) I used to love it when certain friends would come over. One of them, a guy working on his graduate degree, was so sunny. He wasnt a studmuffin to look at, but his smile would light up the place. His specialty was deconstructionism, always pulling everything apart to see how it worked, and how it could work better.

He and a group of his friends (including my guy – groan) would get together every month or so at the pub and debate philosophy or politics. After one of our parties he asked me to join in the debate (guess who didnt want me there?).

What I noticed about him, was that he was so skillful at pulling the best out of everyone in the discussion, even people like me who had studied philosophy so many decades ago I couldnt tell my Kant from my…well you know what I mean!

While someone like my ex-sociopath was trying to “make a kill” in the debate, this other guy was genuinely fascinated by what each person had to contribute – and this is the magic part – could still argue your point at the same time as valuing it. I wish I had paid more attention to how he did that.

I wish I could do it better than I’ve been trying these past couple of months. At the end people walked away feeling like my ex was a shark, while this other guy felt like a monk, smiling and shaking your hand, thanking you for making him have to think harder to see more and more angles of an issue.

Its hard for me to explain adequately I suppose.

But what I noticed about this particular thread is, people who call me friend, even though they havent had that much time to get to know me, who hadnt supported me publicly before, did so this time, in ways that helped me see how I’m valued by some here, without speaking negatively about the character of those who are pushing against me.

And thats a marvel as much as that monk with the debate club.

Because it always holds a space for inclusion…it doesnt create EXCLUSION. Its the support a buddhist might give. So I guess what I want to say is thanks for making me feel valued, and thanks for making it feel inclusionary, cuz in the end really, all of my insistence on mutual respect, and the freedom to express thoughts without being shushed is, when you come right down to it, meant to create a place where EVERY voice feels included…and valued.

that would be SO nice :slight_smile:

#50

Richard Bach said something to the effect of “You already are that which you most admire.” 

#51

Phoenixxx, you have been told that you have a lot to offer Careplace. I do believe you are starting to see not only that you do, but you can now see there are a few people who benefit from that as we learn to be opinionated, to see other opinions without judging and a better way to go about it. This past week has been one of the best weeks, as I have actually felt the forums finally doing what they were meant to!

#52

Thanks for the kind words Steve :slight_smile:

I think EVERYONE has a lot to offer CP. I hope more and more voices join in so all us frequent posters can “take a rest”! pass the mic around and let more and more voices sing.

hahaha Open Mic Night at Careplace !!!

I suck at stand-up comedy by the way, but I can be a damn good doo-wop girl!

Seriously though, as more and more days go by that dont have personal attacks or drama (even if there is no jointly-created resolution), maybe more and more people will feel its safe enough to post more and more varied stuff?? maybe?

cuz, well, I’m still looking towards getting to know people better :slight_smile: