Only a qulified professional can diagnose NPD

what if we’re all wrong
and its not really NPD’d people we were dealing with?

what if they were someplace else on the N scale?

would it have made a difference?

I’ve said a number of times I dont care what the label is anymore, I just know theree was a malevolent spirit in my ex, the deception, the betrayal, the sadism, not just to me but towards others.

When I start, at this stage, to let myself see my ex in a more humane light, I run the risk of getting empathic and soft inside like I used to the whole time I was with him, and that kept me there, in the misery and painful relationship.

When all I ever wanted was to just love and be loved.

I run a risk of actually having body and heart memories of those feelings and then I feel at risk of becoming vulnerable all over again and setting myself up for more pain at his hands.

It seems demonizing is my only protection right now…from him, from my broken heart, from insanity (doing the same thing, loving and feeling compassion for him hoping there might be a different result).

I cant tell you how much I want my life to return to normal again, how much I wish this good man who is in my life now would actually have an opportunity to “be let in” instead of held at arms length (cuz thats how thick my bullet-proof vest is). Its almost as bad as I ever wanted my relatioNship to work, as bad as I wanted my exN to just 'see" me and have compassion for me and just be kind.

The whole world would have felt so much different during those 8 yars if there could have been compassion and kindness.

And frankly, I’m a little alarmed at my being devoid of it while I’m hating and demonizing someone I have labeled N/ASP.

OH Wahela,

thats a beautiful quote, and so perfectly fitting my world in this moment.

lovely woman :slight_smile:

It is rather obvious that some are here for ulterior motives, sell books, have some fun (almost sadist), play games, and who knows with their phony fascades.

Yeah Sam,

…and surgical operations are what scalpels are intended for, but I think you will find, on the whole, they are best administered by a qualified professional with a binding ethical code and years of experience.

:o)

GD

I always say it doesn’t matter what the initial is. All that matters is how he treats you , and the yin/yang playing off of each other and creating disharmony and pain for everybody. if someone is abusive, it doesn’t matter what name we apply to it. They are abusive, period.

The oldest P stepdaughter was psych evalled, and it took about 30 hours of tests, interviews, etc. This was a process that took a lot of time, driving, expensive, etc. And I believe that her diagnosis was correct, BPD, ASPD with thrill seeking. It takes a lot to get an official diagnosis.

It certainly doesn’t take any professional at all to realize that you are in an abusive situation with someone who does not have your best interest at heart.

And being in that relationship, you are subject to all of the confusion, fears, etc. whether he is an N or not.

What is important is how you feel and what kind of interaction you are having, and better yet, why you feel that you should accept bad behavior from someone else.

Take care.

wahela

Abuser in Denial

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/5002

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6680@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] only a qulified professional can diagnose NPD

blitzen,

I am still married to him, I tarred and feathered him, but his cloths cover it up when we go out. You will be happy to also know, I don't make him wear his NPD sign every where we go, depends on how he behaves. I find that has curbed a lot of the bad behavior. I will include all my tips when I write my book. Hugs mamolie

"It certainly doesn't take any professional at all to realize that you are in an abusive situation with someone who does not have your best interest at heart." ~Wahela

That's true! The problem many of us face when dealing with a partner who has NPD is that we seek advice and information from people who are talking about NORMAL relationship problems. We assume we are dealing with a person who will eventually 'Get It'. A partner who cares enough to work on him or herself rather than blaming other people.

The worst damage done to myself during a 'reconciliation' post-infidelity, was reading Dr. Phil's books and assuming my partner would respond in "NORMAL" ways. He didn't. The harder I tried, the deeper the shite. Pretty soon, I felt like a complete failure since nothing people suggested we do made any difference.

Learning about NPD freed me from the N-ightmare which is why I feel it's important for people to understand the narcissistic pathology to some degree. We don't have to memorize Kernberg nor recite clinical criteria...we just need a general understanding of how narcissistic defenses distort reality. From there, we can make better and healthier decisions in our lives.

How Narcissistic someone might be is definitely up to a psychologist's determination. But even someone with NPD Traits (or as Nina Brown defines it: DNP=Destructive Narcissistic Patterns) can prevent an intimate and trustworthy relationship from developing. The best hope we have if we choose to remain with someone who has numerous DNPs, is to understand HOW the disorder works. Then and only then, are we able to extricate ourselves from their projections, enmeshment, (and ego defenses).

The average person knows how to create good relationships and based on their life experience, expects their partner to reciprocate in like kind. When this doesn't happen, of course we blame ourselves. It's only natural. And we seek ways to increase the intimacy rather than realizing our partner has a psychological problem preventing him or her from relating in a 'normal' manner.

Usually, it takes a crisis for us to see through our own perceptions of reality and shatter a few assumptions we have about ALL human beings. If my spouse had a physical disorder---let's say he was born with one leg) I'd never expect him to climb Mount Everest. In a way, this is what we do with someone who has NPD or DNPs. Until we know they are threatened by intimacy, are reactionary to shame or defend themselves from threats that don't exist, we expect them to climb the Lover's Mountain with us.

I hope we can increase public awareness about psychological health which includes all mental disorders and illnesses. There need be no shame about suffering from psychological problems. The more we talk about real people's lives and struggles, the less shame and fear there will be.

Hugs,

CZBZ

 

What else can we call adult people who lack empathy? They do not have the ability to connect to you or understand how their behavior hurts or impacts the people who care about them.They do not have the normal range of feelings or the capacity to love like most of us. I am not talking about bad days here and there, I am talking consistantly, doing things that hurt over and over, year after year.

People who can only imitate and mimic human feelings but not actually feel them. They know all the right words to say and can apologize, but they are words with out any feeling behind them. They USE WORDS to manipulate the caring feeling people to get what they want and need for their survival only. They are actors giving many award winning performances that make them appear to be like us. They give such great over the top performances for the good and bad guy, you can't be sure which one they are, you get tricked into believing the good guy is who they are. Your mind says they are bad, but your heart only sees the good and believes you can get the good guy. We just can't believe they are a package deal, can't be seperated no matter what we do.

 I know I was always aware that "something" was wrong, "something" happened to him but thought it could be worked out because I have empathy, I thought no one would want to be up and down like that. I went through many years blaming alcohol, drinking problem, that could be worked out, quit drinking. He did, but seemed to be more unhappy, dry drunk who didn't work through his issues. No more drunken scarey rages, just angry most of the time. Then I moved onto he is abusive, negative and unhappy, he just needed "sensitivity" training,tried to work on that. He would even read the books I bought, so he said, nothing registered.

I tried talking and reasoning all through the years, I thought I could not find the RIGHT WORDS or I was speaking a foreign language to him. Most of our life did not make sense, we just keep growing older and moving on never getting any answers or anything worked out. He became less abusive but something was still way off.

I found Sams site and was so relieved when I found the answer and the reason for all the madness I had lived through. NPD describes my H and and the life I lived becasue of his disorder. For me it is important to put a name to it to save the little sanity I have left. I searched for that "something" wrong for a long time, NPD is that answer I needed to explain it all. That is not the answer I wanted. I still had some doubt and hope that I could get still get through to him. I could not, it took awhile for me to finally accept he has this disorder and nothing can be done to help or fix him. I do not want to debate it, study it, research it, talk about cures,fight over who is right or wrong.

My education and experience, 41 years of living and taking care of one, that's more than I need to know. The label was important to me at first, to explain my life, and give up that hope, so I could focus on myself. I am in the beginning stages of figuring out who I am, throwing out the things he assigned to me. It is hard getting rid of so much negative garbage that went in my mind. I still go up and down, have flash backs, get sad,not as intense as it once was. I am a work in progress, as bup says I am the captain of my ship, I can sail where ever I want to go, nothing holding me down or back any more. Yes blitzen ,it all about, me ,me, me, me, and what I want to do!!!! I must be one of the N"s you were talking about.

                                                 hugs mamolie

MAMOLIE:

I COULD NOT HAVE SAID THIS ANY BETTER, EXCEPT MY FATHER AND
BROTHER… YOU ARE SO CLOSE TO YOUR INSIGHT. IT IS ABSOLUTELY
REMARKABLE. BUT AGAIN, AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN
SEARCHING FOR AN ANSWER FO 41 YEARS (39 FOR ME), YOU KNOW EXACTLY HOW
TO DESCRIBE IT.
MY THERAPIST THINKS THAT I AM FREE TO GO NOW. I AM FEELING THAT WAY
TOO. I AM FREE OF
FEELING LIKE SHIT ALL THE TIME AND I AM THE MASTER OF MY OWN DOMAIN!!!

On Nov 8, 2007, at 5:33 PM, mamolie wrote:

Very simple…

Real people are diagnosed with NPD by real professionals…so you do not have the right to abuse the term by redefining it, with as much publicity as possible, to be whatever specific set of pejoratives you most want to throw at your ex or other (whether honestly, projectively or somewhere in between), because that leads to anybody formally diagnosed with NPD being wrongly considered to be tarred with the same brush.

You want to invent a PD to malign you ex or other, FINE, but invent a name for it too, so real people don’t get caught between the wheels of your needs…

Mamolie said:


Yes blitzen ,it all about, me ,me, me, me, and what I want to do!!! I must be one of the N"s you were talking about.


I refrained from coming out and saying that, but as you said it yourself all I can do is agree with you.

GD

Lemme see if I can get my message across without Twisting the Words, Blitzen: 

Blah

Blah 

Blah 

Blah 

Blah 

Blah

I know...kinda juvenile of me, wasn't it? But when you start dictating, I feel like I'm in a Peanuts animation with the ugly old school marm staring at her students going:

Blah

Blah 

Blah 

Blah 

Blah 

Blah

 

CZBZ, Teacher's Pet

Narcissists in Therapy

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq63.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq77.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq70.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq12.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/10.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/case03.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq31.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily8.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders37.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders45.html

Take care there!

Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6680@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] only a qulified professional can diagnose NPD

Czbz,

You have yet to be honest. Why did you show up when Blitzen attacked Sam? Why is this board of focus and not your own? What in the fuck do you get from all this? Saving others? Excuse me, barf.

Therapists and diagnosticians are sometimes conned by narcissists:

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal62.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse9.html

How Victims are Pathologized and re-abused by the System

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/5068

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “mamolie” npd-cpt6680@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] only a qulified professional can diagnose NPD

Yea, therapists and diagnosticians are sometimes conned by narcissists; though probably not as frequently as narcissists believe they are conning lesser-intelligent-beings. ;-)

The more we keep learning about Narcissism, the less likely it is that an arrogaNt sum-gun will be able to pull the wool over other people's eyes. People aren't stoooopid though we may be ignorant about the particulars of the NPD.

The therapist working with the X and myself during a marital reconciliation was just as shocked as I when the X took off with the Other Woman. He had believed the X's professions of fidelity despite the fact that the affair continued right through couple's counseling. The therapist apologized profusely afterwards saying, "I just couldn't see IT, CZ! I just couldn't see it!"

IT=whatever label you wanna put on 'it'.

I doubt that newbie therapist will make the same mistake again.

CZBZ

When my therapist/trainer (whos known my N for years) declared she knew he was a N for quite awhile, I asked her “why hasnt anyone said that to him???”

She replied “we did, many times. We told him he was seducing people then abandoning them, that he puts a whole lot of energy into impressing them with skills but not good at holding contact, and that he wasnt good at empathy, revealing his true self or sticking around.”

I said “Thats different than coming right out and telling him he’s a N.”

“Correct,” she said “but if you tell an N they are one, they usually leave and dont come back, and theres more potential for awareness and growth if he sticks around long enough to get the message.”

The moral to that story? Dont believe all that many therapists are fooled. Many of them know exactly whats going on.

Yeah Sam, but I think, on the whole, self appointed, online gurus, in pursuit of personal gain, and a greater market share, con and victimise a LOT more innocent people.

…and when a therapist DOES get conned by someone he is trying to diagnose, at least he gets conned into believing that they do not have an academically and medically established condition…

…as opposed to laypeople being conned into believing somebody close to them has some mumbo jumbo cooked up by a self styled “financial analyst” with a criminal record, to sell overpriced books and buy himself a little sense of celebrity?

GD

Presumably, that’s what psych tests are for:

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders11.html

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “CZBZ” npd-cpt6680@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] only a qulified professional can diagnose NPD

It’s ok Susiejo,

I don’t think they mean to be nasty AS SUCH…

I think they are just feeling bored, ignored and neglected, and, in a cute, passive aggressive, way, they are trying to make Sam, or I, (or both) come back and play with them.

This is because they are forgetting that, in Europe, where Sam and I hang out, this is Friday night, and we both have better things to do…

But thank you for thinking my posts are worth reading…

GD