is a pathological liar a disorder in itself or is it more likely a symptom of some other disorder like a character disorder? someone I know has always seemed to be one but i’m seeing a connection between the term and other terms like gaslighting. does a person who does this believe the lies that they tell or are they aware of what they are doing? i’ve been doing some reading and I’m starting to think that this actually could be intentional psychological abuse. i’m frightened by the thought that somehow all my confusion isn’t a side effect but an intended result.
from my own experience…they believe thier lies,and this just seems a way to deny the truth keep the confusion going and control and frustrate…have to have a good memory to be a good liar though…and they often contradict themselves…which adds to the confusion.
In my experiences, they know they are lying. They just don’t see the problem with lying. They do see you as a problem if you don’t go along with the lie.
Trust your radar. Remember they are trying to find ways around your radar.
In my experience they know they’re lying also. They don’t see the problem with lying or the end result of those lies. It’s all about what they want and need in that moment. And nothing more.
I think the lying is definately part of a larger character flaw.
My ex used to say he lied because “everybody lies”.
And he said the way to be a successful liar was to “convince yourself that what youre saying is actually true”.
Its knowing he’s lying, and refusing to believe he is lying, which makes his raging at me (whenever I told him he was a liar, or he wasnt believable, or trustworthy) understandable…I’d be upset too if the person I loved was calling me a liar while I believed I was telling the truth.
The only difference is I dont know how to do those mental gymnastics without making myself sick over it.
dont trust a liar…because they cant even trust themselves…truth hurts
I also just recalled my ex saying that a good leader has to be able to lie, often and convincingly…but then he was a big fan of Machiavelli, but then arent all S’s?
a good leader has to be trustworthy perhaps?
whoa
a whole bunch of things aree flooding back from memory -
he was also big on “protecting his privacy” which translated to driving an ownerless-car, with stolen plates on it, a license that came from another province, not filing tax returns, hqaving NO record of his residence on any government document…and lying, lying, lying in order to not leave a trail anywhere.
I dont know how many others of you had a criminally-minded partner, its why I think mine was more a S than N, but there’s some kind of connection to not being seen, not being known…not just wearing a mask, or presenting a false facade, but keeping everyone from knowing the real them.
I’ve said before, after 7 years together, living together, having lost a pregnancy together (ugh dont get me started) I STILL dont really know who he is, despite having moments where I thought I did.
If they dont have a real sense of themselves, that theyre empty or invisible or deeply flawed and without-value inside, then it makes sense they dont want that to be known/seen, and the easiest way to do that is to lie…about EVERYTHING or ANYTHING.
Ugh…rather than talking about THEM…I’d rather talk about US…what their lying did to us and how to undo it.
I was so skillfully lied to so many times, the only truths I know are because I invaded his privacy enough to go looking.
I DO NOT want to be like that in a relationship again, but after having been so convinced of things that were untrue, I have no clue how to build trust in myself recognizing that in the future.
I became a’human lie-detector"…lol…and to this day…i can detect a lie…(call it paranoia)…but its been very usefu…lol
That is the one good thing that came with being with a pure psycho in the distant past…
today all I can say is – I’d rather be alone
instincts, yes great
thats all a N relies on
its how he is like an animal
or like a police officer
picking up on things for which there is no physical proof
theres no room for empathy in there, except for ourselves
and then what does that make us?
N-like
I think theres something more to it than just that
I really do believe theres something to be uncovered, untwisted, reconstructed post-N that has more to do with it than just instincts
I HAVE to believe that
I’m pretty sure my ex would start to believe her own lies after she’d practiced them enough and convinced enough people. That doesn’t rule out or exclude that she often was intentionally lying. I think the effects of her lying were often unintentional, but some times it did have more sinister motives. My ex was a covert abuser and I didn’t realize it was happening until I was very deep into the relationship. Sadly, there are people in the world who will cause you misery and get some enjoyment out of it or control you with it.
I think the amount of lying I witnessed was like a long slow brainwashing.
RE:Rather be alone
Thats how i feel too at this moment in time…is that a good thing though?I think perhaps"time out" is a good thing?
My mother thinks she is a human lie detector. She thought I was lying a number of times when I was younger when I wasnt. That was painful, to be falsely accused by someone I needed to support me from behind.
I bring that to my relationships, so I try hard not to falsely accuse anyone, because I dont want an yone falsely accusing me…not in love relationships anyway.
And as a side note, even my mother didnt detect when my ex was lying either.
The only thing I DO trust is fact, indisputable evidence, and thats hard to come by unless one goes looking like a detective, and then I think thats not a relationship when you have to protect yourself that hard from disaster thats likely coming anyway.
Besides there’s also lying by ommission, another favourite of my ex. The things he just never mentioned that I found out later…Jesus…
Have you noticed in the Sopranos, the character that says “are you lying to me right now? You better not be lying to me, I’ll find out” is Tony Soprano…and even he couldnt tell.
I think thats good for you that you feel protected enough to never worry anyone is lying to you ever again.
I really dont place any faith in anyone knowing what the truth in someone’s mind is, thats mind reading and I’m not that good a psychic.
All a person has, like the articvle says, is trust in themselves…and I barely have that.
I often say I’m (this or that) but holding a space for something different.
I dont know how its possible that I’ll ever be interested in trusting myself/someone else enough to be in an intimate relationship again, I cant even imagine it anymore, like I could when I first went No Contact. This isnt the headspace I planned to have, but its where I found myself. I’ve never had to be single if I didnt want to be.
But it seems I want to be, and its all I can imagine right now.
But if I didnt want more fulfilling a life than I do right now, I wouldnt still be paying a EMDR therapist.
I have to say though, she’s my last hope, I dont think I have anymore energy after this one to look for or believe in anything else.
The point of trust is having a low tolerance for lying. There was no way any of us would have known we were dating an N.
I’ve had bad relationships before and I was always able to walk away. It would hurt but I would walk. When people ask me what made you stay with my Ex so long. I can only describe it as being tricked. In the past when a relationship has ended I break contact. Either they stop calling me or I stop calling them. With an N it’s hard to break contact. They don’t leave you alone. You begin to think all that crying means something. He must love you. My Ex came to my door crying on his knees, literally. I remember stroking his head and telling him that I didn’t know how to fix our relationship. And by this time I knew something was wrong but I couldn’t figure out why he would go through all the trouble. I couldn’t understand it. When I figured out he didn’t want to live at home with his parents I was shocked and apalled. He wanted to live with me until his other girlfriend took him back and then he would leave me for her. WOW!!! Again shocked and apalled. And when his plans didn’t work out he resorted to physical violence.
A few weeks back I saw him and the other woman walking together. This after he said he didn’t trust her and he would never go back to her. The whole time he lived with me he was talking to her behind my back. I will never understand it. And I’m not supposed to.
Keep in mind how often you were lied and manipulated.
yes…trust your INSTINCTS then…they NEVER let us down…survival strat or paranoia?
People"reveal themselves"eventually…their true nature…its just a case of waiting…give them enough rope and they will hang themselves.
I’ve met men with narcissistic behavior before…but I wouldn’t say that I met a true N until my Ex.
I look at it this way. I probably will never meet a man that crazy ever again. And if I did I would recognize him right away.
I’m dating someone new. He lies. Small lies. Like telling me he took the chicken out of the freezer and put it back because he didn’t want it to spoil. Now I call him on it. “It doesn’t look like you did” I tell him. I’m still not sure about him, I’m watching and learning. However, when I meet his friends and family they tell me how wonderful he is and how much he cares about me. I can’t recall any of that from the other men I’ve dated. I chalk it up to me being a perfectionist and him feeling intimidated. We’ll see what happens.
He knows I’ve been hurt and that I need time. And he’s waiting patiently (sort of). lol
Don’t give up on love because some ASSHOLE hurt you. It’s not fair to you!
He/She narcissist will never truly be loved, and he will never love anyone else. He/She is not moving on to greener pastures. He/She will be an A-Hole for the rest of his or her life. He/She has treated everyone before you like garbage and will treat everyone after you like garbage. It’s inevitable because he/she is a narcissist.
I try to remember this also.