you have your’lie-detector"in place…probably as a result of your last relationship…so you spot even the small lies…lol…its very useful i find.
I trust only the trustworthy now days…and i trust others until they prove otherwise
“He/She”
That made me giggle, I’m glad the female N is getting some equal time. Thanks for giving the males some recognition!
doubledee…the dawn of realisation!
DD I hear ya, and I’m grateful that youre so big hearted you send me (us) that message.
I dont give a shit what the N/S in my life has as his past or will have in his future anymore.
ha - its like my son, his dad took him to KFC on the way home from boating upnorth last summer. After they got home my son was violently ill, diarrhea, vomitting, and since he has rarely if ever gotten sick in any way he was shaken up too.
He knows he can eat poopcorn chicken again and probably wont get sick, that he could order a 2 pc. meal, or sample a bucket or just dip his fork into the green coleslaw and likely not get sick again…
but he always says something during a KFC commercial, when I’ve jokingly suggested we go there for takeout he gets very serious and refuses.
I have these moments (today is one of them) where I’mn not hopeful I’ll ever want to “dine on the fried chicken of love” again after having been burnt by Mr Popcorn Chicken.
Know what I mean?
Maybe thats the PTSD, maybe thats what EMDR will shake open for me, but I feel all slammed shut and locked down.
I dont mean to contribute cynicism and defiance to this forum, but really its where I am.
If I could share with you what the crime is he did to me, you might all be collectively sighing “of course she feels that way, now it all makes sense”.
I DONT KNOW HOW TO GET FROM HERE TO “THERE”.
I’m an gry now, really angry, I need to go out and swim a few more laps.
(hugs DD)
just let go of the hurt and the anger…so hard yet so simple.
Ask yourself why you wont let go?
If we all had great days life would be very boring.
Hello! How are you! Great day today! Lovely! I feel like smelling the flowers! You look so nice today! I just love that red sweater!
WHATEVER!!
I hate your sweater! You suck! It’s raining! You make me sick! And your flowers are dead! LOL
Sometimes being mad feels good.
Have you heard the joke about the guy who wanted to be happy all the time.
He says lord, I have a request. The lord says “what can I do for you” He says lord I want to be happy all the time! And the Lord says “it is so”. And the guy ends up in the nut-house! He’s happy all the time, and he’s crazy.
You are going to have your down days. It’s just part of life.
yep…yin-yang balance both sides of the coin.
thankyou for helping with my question I guess the jury is still out on it. i’m guessing a lot of you are a lot further along than I am because i am still trying to make sense of all this nonsense. i’m sorry if i brought back some bad memories for some of you.
spiral
if you have good intentions in reference to me
please dont give me directions
as I’ve stated many times
we’ve all had similar yet different experiences
and we’re all on different paths
and what may have worked brilliantly for you
will likely not work for me
I’m interested in hearing about your experiences, your experiments and what worked for you
I’m getting an increasing feeling you’d like to apply those things to me
when I’m trying to state very clearly and politely
we’re different people
with different experiences
needing different tools
thank you in advance for your sensitivity
(ps I would have sent this to you privately but was unable to do so)
"snowwhite wrote:
is a pathological liar a disorder in itself or is it more likely a symptom of some other disorder like a character disorder? someone I know has always seemed to be one but i’m seeing a connection between the term and other terms like gaslighting. does a person who does this believe the lies that they tell or are they aware of what they are doing? i’ve been doing some reading and I’m starting to think that this actually could be intentional psychological abuse. i’m frightened by the thought that somehow all my confusion isn’t a side effect but an intended result."
Hey everybody, this is the topic of this thread. If you are inspired to talk about something different please create a new thread. Thanks!
Phoenixx…you have got me wrong!..i would not patronise you like that and i am so sorry if it came acraoss like that.
You see I iDENTIFY with what you say…because it brings back my feelings more or less exactly(how i felt)and i know WHY i felt like that.
But as you say…we are different people…different ways…but I had my good reasons to feel very angry and cynical…but it was hurting me…thats all…and i had to let go of the angry stuff…for my own sake.
And i can tell that you are a strong person that doesnt need’directions"from anybody…by the way…again…apologies are in order.
starting now lol
“It takes 2 to lie. 1 to lie and 1 to be lied to.”-Homer Simpson
Snow white
if youre talking about someone who is a N, or S then I can say from experience there is a goal of spinning things around in order to confuse, in order to subvert your instinct or knowledge of something being wrong.
if thats actually happening with you and the person youre talking about I cant say, theres no way for me to know.
If youre talking about abuse, my opinion is even if the motivation is merely to control you, your criticisms, keep you from leaving or any other motive, its still abuse.
Others may not agree. But thats based on my own experience.
Whether I had 2 hands around my throat while being held on down on the bed, or he was trying to throw me off the scent of a woman calling his cell phone, the result was the same, purposely hurting me in order to get what he wanted.
My ex was a pathological liar. I have no idea if all N’s/S’s are, or if all pathological liars are N’s/S’s.
What is your feeling about whats going on in your slice of the universe?
also theres no need to apologize for “stirring things up”…I think its a natural occurrence for those of us to get triggered by stuff, its what we do with that feeling thats our own work.
“You know Scotty, I honestly don’t remember if I tried cocaine or not”- George W. Bush from former White House press secretary Scott McCellan’s(?) book.
The White House response: He’s crazy, he’s disgruntled, not the Scott we knew.
These same people have us now actually begging for $3.99 a gallon gas again and believing its a good idea to send our children overseas.
lying quickl;y can become a sort of habit and addiction almost…the keep everyone guessing game…its all about control really/
When my long term ex had had a drink(quite a lot)he used to seem to be’pulling hairs"out of his mouth…when i asked him what the hell he was doing…he said"i can taste the lies"which was a habitual thing when his inhibitions were down through drink…i do think that perhaps they are not conscious of the lies as they dont or cant seem to seperate fantasy from reality…sort of scizoiphrenic almost?(if ive spelt it right)
From personal experience I totally agree with you Phoenix. I found i continually felt I had to invade my last n’s privacy to find the truth, if I could, many many times. I just did not trust him at all.
I believe he truly believed his own lies to be the truth and all hell broke loose of you dared to challenge him about it. Even when talking to him recently he was talking about his first wife and how she was such a b… and thats how he remembers her, but what he let out that astounded me was that he had been to counseling for domestic violence after he and his wife had a huge argument. Now he has claimed that he has never had this sort of counseling before and went on to say he cannot remember what he went for. Oh yeh right, I know first hand how he looses it and goes into a full on rage over the minutest thing that sets off one of his triggers. When we both had counseling together, it came out that he was highly sensitive to anything that remotely sounded like criticism which was caused or stemmed from his Slovenian mother who constantly criticized him as a child and growing adult. He now hates his mother and has not contacted her more than 5 years. Understandable yes… From books I have read in particular Sam Vaknin’s book ’ Malignant Self Love’ which explains explicitly the whys and how it effects them. It is suppressed anger, or anger that is not allowed to be expressed to the person who has deeply hurt them, and has festered over many years. So like a volcano it builds up over any length of time, long or short periods, until something triggers them and explodes either in rage or buried in serious health problems or even both. Two of his wives were pregnant and both of them never went full term but had abortions, He claims he doesn’t know why, this I find extremely hard to believe. All his women left him for other men and he said he never suspected it. Believe me I can see why they left, and can even understand why they would go to such drastic measures not to have a child to him. Not that I agree with abortion for selfish reasons, but i do understand them for being so desperate. My goodness he even was jealous over the attention I gave my cat!! The rages would happen and you wouldn’t know what triggered it. You didn’t have to be arguing .One time I sensed he was edgy but tried to ignore it and be happy and chatty. When he noticed the tomato I had just fried with his eggs was a little too brown for his liking, he freaked out and the next thing I knew he had thrown a hot cup of tea at me and stormed out of the house ranting and raving. It went everywhere, fortunately it had only wet my jumper and not on my face. I was so stunned, went upstairs crying & changed my clothes. I thought I best go and clean the mess up but seeing the broken mug and sweetened tea was all over the floor & the walls I decided I wouldn’t clean it up, thinking he made the mess and if I do it is only helping him to deny or not face what he had done, so I left it for him to do. After a while I heard him come in and he started cleaning it up very quickly. Out of site out of mind. When I came down stairs he never apologized of course, and it was never mentioned again because I knew by experience he would not talk about it at all. He had deposited into his internal bank of denial. If you were to mention it today to him he would deny it ever happened or say he cant remember, it must be my imagination. This I believe could come under the name of ‘mind games’. You feel like you are going insane after a while. As for the tax thing well he does the something similar, avoids putting tax forms in for years and years. Keeps to himself, has moved a lot, never visits friends, never asks anyone to help him. He does anything he can to avoid embarrassment, he cannot handle that at all. My second ‘N’ was more involved in ‘get rich schemes’ and this could be very questionable with the law, I got that way I was so scared to look in the letterbox, of anyone ringing or any car in the driveway. I t was horrendous time in my life and my children’s lives. The worse was, no one would believe me because all my ‘n’s’ were so wonderful to other people outside the front door. Their lies were so incredibly believable to everyone. What a night mare, what a waste of life. Another excellent book which sorted out my confusion is ‘The Men Who Hate Women and The Women Who Love Them’, by Dr Susan Forward’. There is a Christian version as well but cannot think of the author’s name. The Christian men Who Hate Women and the Christian Women Who Love Them.
If there’s something I’m certain of it’s that we will never understand N behavior. Never. We can read the books and articles, I know I have. But it’s hard to accept, possibly because many times they simply go to far. I stayed with my Ex much longer than I should have. I fell apart when he took money from me under the guise of helping fixing my home (it’s in my story). I stayed because I needed him make it right! I couldn’t accept what was. I nearly went nuts trying to get some recprocation. Close to the end he promised to repay me but only in labor as originally planned. I just shook my head “what makes you think I need $4000 in labor a year later?” I don’t have $4000 of work for you to do. He didn’t know what to say to that. He said he would build a deck that I didn’t need. I laughed out loud. I remember thinking how brazen he was to even suggest it. He took my money and he’s gonna tell me how he’s going to pay it back.
There came a point where I just got tired of the bullshit. Lies and more lies. Lies, lies, lies. He even got his girlfriend to lie to me and tell me they weren’t involved! Who cares, just go!! At that point I didn’t give a shit. (please excuse the expletives) I was indifferent. I couldn’t understand it, I couldn’t explain it, I still don’t and I never will.
Acceptance is what I’m trying to grasp. You can’t make sense of crazy!
agreed DD
in fact I havent yet made complete sense out of what happened to me as a result …have you?
i don’t know how I’m feeling. its like walking through the looking glass. i’m somewhere between denial and recognizing that i may have been abused. i’m reading about npd and its unfamiliar territory but i know somethings wrong because i start feeling sick to my stomach when i do. its a position i’d really like to not be in. i think i always knew i’d have to leave but know i’m seeing that its not going to end pretty.