Resolution & Solution!?!?!?!

Narcissistic personality disorder
#21

I agree with SMG.

ME…ME…ME…The loss of this
idea…Our EGOS never
counted to begin with…So that is why it is SO HARD to take
back our EGOS…Because
THEY WERE STOLEN A LONG TIME AGO…BUT GUESS WHAT SMG, YOU GOT
YOUR EGO BACK !!! YOU ARE ALLOWED TO BE WHO YOU
ARE…IS THAT A CRIME? OJ TOOK NICOLE’S LIFE BECAUSE SHE GOT
HER EGO STRENGTH BACK…AND THAT M@#$%%%FU#$%%^R IS FINALLY GOING
TO PAY FOR IT… (LETS HOPE AND PRAY)…
YOU KNOW OPRAH WILL TRY HER HARDEST IN REGARDS TO THAT RAGING
NARCISSIST!!!
On Sep 19, 2007, at 6:43 PM, smg wrote:

#22

wow, everyone’s stories are so powerful, hugs to every single person out there writing today. i can’t write much am on overload.

sheilax4 - how did you get your N to get help? was it a self discovery? did you say something?

I just don’t think we can give up and I hate that sam guy! I don’t think it is ok to always cater to the N.

We have to put a stop to this maddness, that is why I started this topic.

Yes, we are all co-dependents and we are all damanged — whatever… EVERYSINGLE ONE OF US IS trying to get better!!! Why can’t we help the people who don’t have the insight to get better.

i feel like we are given a gift of empathy … even if it is in the wrong way where we sacrifice ourselves and we should help all the Ns.

it’s like ADD, or depression or anything… even autism… all of these things, people gave up on but someone had fought for these things…

I don’t know…

i am just still hoping there is something I can do to save my crappy abusive relationship.

i guess i feel awful that he is so emotionaly void and wish I could do something. I would want him to help me.

maybe this is pathetic and I am still needing to realize I have serious issues and need to put me first. and just run and have not been able to accept that. :frowning:

I think every single person here is amazing!!! I love that we can all share what we think!

Even if our opinions are different, but this is how we are going to this craziness that could be caused by our society?

Who is this sam guy? Why is he getting so much publicity? i think he is nuts and is making excuses for his behaviors and just wants to be worshiped. He has insight, so why not fix himself???

#23

hopetoday - you are correct. Never give up hope, never give up on those you love, and never give up on the father of your children. He is as important to those kids as you are. Whether you leave him or not, he will still be their father and they will be affected by everything that he does and that happens to him. Seek and you will find an answer. Please read further.

I give Sheila a ditto. It is strange to me that people would listen to Varkin on anything, especially NPD. Sincerely with LOL, would you listen to your “NPD” explain what is wrong with them and what you should do about it? How many of you have seen “N’s” convince the therapist or others that it is you, they are fine? That is what being a “victim” leads to - it gets turned on you.

The following site is on NPD, lots of links including some personal accounts of experiences with Mr. Varkin. It is not a matter of attacking Sam, it is a matter of praying that many of you sit back and think a bit - raise an eyebrow to how your pain and desparation with what you are dealing with might leave you susceptible to people on the internet who might lead you astray.

http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/

http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/malignant_narcissism_vaknin_revisited.html

http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/narcissism_caution_internet.html

Call Oprah? Get ready for her to ask what credentials Mr. Varkin has and what his background is? Do you know? Get ready for her to ask if you have been given a formal diagnosis by some one with proper credentials that you in fact are dealing with a narcissist personality disorder. Are you going to tell her you read about it on the internet and you so decided the diagnosis?

The bottom line which even Sam admits to is that only a trained professional can properly assess NPD. This is because there is a good bit more involved in such a diagnosis, other problems that need to be first eliminated.

This site is by a professor of psychiatry at Harvard who does have credentials. His book “Shadow Syndromes” is on Amazon.com. There are some reviews there that might be worth reading. On this site, he explains the state of psychiatry in the year 2007. Mental health problems might have to do with behavior learned from one’s mother, but they may very well be inherited from mother. There is cognition - learned behavior. A therapist can change that. But there is as well a brain with a nervous system and metabolic processes at play. Therapists cannot change those. Do you honestly really know which you are dealing with?

http://www.addresources.org/article_shadow_syndromes_ratey.php

Many of the symptoms that people discuss on this board can actually be representative of other medical problems, including cancer or a brain tumor, thyroid or other hormonal problems, vitamin deficiencies, diabetes, brain damage resulting from an injury such as a concussion (pro football players like O J), alcohol damage to the brain, alzheimers or dementia, etc. There is NO WAY you know what you are dealing with until you first get the medical exams that say nothing physically is wrong. Therapists are not trained to do this. And if the person you truly care about is not properly seeing what is happening to them and not properly assessing their behavior, you need to be talking to their doctor with them. This can be caused by true brain dysfunction and the doctor needs your input. If you truly care about your NPD, do this first and foremost. Get medical professional help first, get facts on their physical state. You may actually find an easy solution to your problem in the doctors office. You may find out that the person you care about has a very serious life threatening problem that is going to get worse. Proper medical help is the best they can get to prepare for worse to come. You might though save their life.

If the doctor gives you a clean bill of health, then seek a psychiatrist at a university hospital. A person with a masters of arts in psychology or sociology or counseling HAS A FRACTION of the education. It is a matter of how much you really care about the other person and getting the best help you can get.

If it is free on the internet - what do you think it is really worth?

#24

mamolie

you did not offend, you were writing what you felt, please don’t apologize for that!

We are here for you too and you have stuff going on too!

You can say things and at least from me withouth judgement. We all know that we can get confused and we question and analize our thoughts, our actions, our lives.

Say whatever you want, whenever you want. Please never edit your thoughts. They are important!!!

#25

Ps. I wrote oprah, i think every single person should write her and keep writing her until this is addressed!!! If just one of us does, there will not be any attention on it… if we all do and keep doing it, then maybe it will gain some attention!

#26

What is her address?
On Sep 19, 2007, at 7:46 PM, hopetoday wrote:

#27

Smg,
You have described my experience with the N.In the last conversation i had with him,he also said that we moved too quickly.But at 40,this is something he has done all of his life.I do remember him saying while we were dating that he has deciced to get to know a woman for a year before he got serious,but for him thats impossible.

#28

https://www.oprah.com/plugger/templates/BeOnTheShow.jhtml?action=respond&plugId=B2100004

#29

Mamolie, I am not offended :-). I just have strong feelings about personal responsibilty. Narcissim is insidious! I want everyone to understand so they can see it for what it is. The realities and the dangers of relationships with these types of people. If it wasn’t for you reaching out to me on this forum I don’t know what would have happened to me.

Thanks SMG for understanding, Thanks BUP for the Kudos and I’m sorry for the bad day. Sounds like you have a beautiful little boy.

These are my honest opinions on saving your N. I don’t believe for a second that our husbands/boyfriends/Ex’s have Narcissitic Personality Disorder. Do they have Narcissitic tendencies? YES. Some more than others. Can they be helped? Yes…but like all things THEY MUST WANT HELP!!! You can’t shove narcissim down their throats and expect them to swallow!

I had a conversation with my Ex last week and he told me he loves me. I said why are you telling me now? I cut off contact with you, changed my telephone numbers, didn’t answer the front door or the phone at work. The only reason we’re talking now is because I let my guard down and picked up the work phone. Why are you telling me now? He said:

BECAUSE I DIDN’T THINK YOU DESERVED TO HERE IT BEFORE.

Before I read all those books on Narcissim I would have cried, screamed at him and called him a bastard. Got on this forum and bitched about what he said and everyone would support me and say what a creep he is. And they would be right. The difference after reading is I didn’t react emotionally because I understood his BS when I heard it. I replied:

THAT’S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND ME, I WOULD NEVER THINK YOU DIDN’T DESERVE TO HEAR I LOVE YOU. AND THAT’S WHY I DON’T WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU.

This was powerful for me and being strong in my convictions was the gift I received from this forum. You wouldn’t walk into battle without a gun? If you want to battle Narcissim with your loved one you must arm yourself with knowledge. When they throw out the BS you must counter with knowledge! Knowlege will strengthen you, knowledge will protect you, knowlege will help you stay on course so you can lead them to emotional wellness. If that’s possible. If your N isn’t ready you gotta sneak in through the back door. Leave the book on a table where he can see. Put it in the bathroom like it’s just light reading. Tell him you’re trying to help your girlfriend get over a guy so you’re reading this interesting book. Read him a passage and say doesn’t that sound like whatshisface? Maybe he’ll pick up the book when your not looking. Maybe he’ll start to ask curious questions. Leave the door open and maybe he’ll walk through it.

Obviously I’ve thought about this alot. My Ex isn’t ready but if we were still together this is what I would do. If your’e looking for constructive ideas here it is. I’m not against helping someone you love. It’s just that Narcissist spend alot of energy tearing us down, it’s dangerous because your own emotional well being is at stake. You must be strong willed and understand when it’s time to throw in the towel. Knowledge will give you that strength.

#30

That’s hilarious. He plays the “I Love You” card the second he realizes he’s been dumped?

What a slime bucket.

You should have said:

“You’re right - I don’t deserve you, and I never did.”

…heh heh heh

DoubleDee npd-cpt5959@lists.careplace.com wrote:

#31

Good for you doubledee!!! That’s the way to do it…

Not only are you speaking for your SELF and setting boundaries with him…

THIS is the kind of response that not only protects YOU (you aren’t playing the game, you aren’t personalizing it, you aren’t "reacting’)…but…

It’s also is the kind of response her bf NEEDS TO HEAR OVER AND OVER AGAIN IF HE IS EVER GOING TO HAVE AN “A-HA” MOMENT AND GET A CLUE ABOUT HIMSELF. Doubledee just modled what an authentic, healthy EGO to her sick bf…it’s not about getting into a screaming match about what an a-hole he is, and how he breaks her heart…that’s bs…he deosnt’ decide on her value!..it’s about the reality that HE IS EXHIBITING BEHAVIOR THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE TO HER AND AS SUCH SHE CAN’T BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM! Period. Have a nice day, wish you all the best, bye bye. His comment…that he didn’t think she deserved to hear that he loved her…how sad, how pathetic…FOLKS…he is projecting how HE FEELS…HE’S THE ONE WHO FEARS HE DOENS’T DESERVE TO BE LOVED!!!. DD didn’t fall for the trap…it’s not about her…it’s HIS illness, he is wounded, IT’S NOT HER, and it’s sad!

THAT SHE SPOKE THE TRUTH FOR HERSELF…THAT KIND OF EXCHANGE WILL DO MORE TO HEAL YOUR OWN “SELF” THAN ANY BOOK ON NARCISSISM WRITTEN… (ALTHOUGH IT HELPS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH)…

And if “PER CHANCE” YOUR NARCISSITIC LOVED ONE WERE TO EVER EVER EVER EVER GET A CLUE, IT WOULD BE AS A DIRECT RESULT OF INTERACTIONS LIKE THE ONE THIS GUY JUST HAD WITH DOUBLEDEE…BECAUSE SHE JUST MODLED TO HIM HEALTHY BOUNDARIES AND A HEALTHY EGO…SOMETHING HE DOES NOT HAVE AND PROBABLY NEVER HAD. If everyone in his life picks up the end of his sick rope and plays the game w/ him…nothing will ever ever change.

Build your own ego, take care of SELF, educate yourself. It’s the most loving thing you can do for everyone involved.

#32

Thanks Merc, I needed that laugh, LOL Yeah he’s a piece of work! Or a piece of shit I haven’t decided yet!

he he he.

#33

Many of us did not give up for many years. Like Mamolie I have been married for many years, getting very close to 37 years now. There is no way that it can be said that I or others that have been “in” for so long ever gave up.
As for myself, I can say that through all of the crazy making that he has put me through I never lost my temper with him when I was younger but find it very hard not to now. I used to believe every word he said that it was all me. It never mattered what I wanted or wished for or even how I loved him it was never good enough. Regardless of what I did in the home, outside the home, in the garden, with our daughter, nothing was ever good enough. I could do nothing right.
After trying for all those years to perhaps have him see me as an equal or even many times just as another human being I have finally given up all hope of this ever happening.
When Mamolie and others of us that have been married and lived it for so many years say to others that are much younger and just starting to see that there may be problems that things will likely never change it is because we do not want for other young women to go through what so many of us older women have gone through for so long. It is very painful to watch when our own children are hurt by what they have had to endure. Most times not even by the abuser but just by living in the home where it has happened. Perhaps some of you would like to have children with the men that behave as ours do. The best thing that I ever got from my marriage was my daughter and now grandchildren. I love them so much and yet I now find that I have to endure the fact that my daughter is also an abuser and my grandchildren are now suffering because of it. I now at this age feel that it was my doing for staying and enduring for so long.
If we all came with ingredient labels on us perhaps we could then make better choices but we do not. The only thing we then can do is to try to reach out to others by explaining the pain of living through years of abuse.
For myself there have been good times but they have been shortlived. I get a year of love and caring and then 10 years of pure hell. Others may get it shorter periods of good and bad but we all live with the fact that we have to beware when times are bad just to fall right back into the trap when times are good.
Education is what is so needed regarding how to treat others and how to love others. I for one do not like to label anyone so will not do so. I will though say that abuse is abuse and as long as we continue to not speak up then the abuse will continue.
I have no clue if this makes sense to others or not because I am really not that good at writing how I feel or what I mean so I can only hope that I wrote it in a manner so that it is understood and not misunderstood.

#34

Mormor:

FIRSTLY I WANT TO SAY THAT WE ALL MUST COME TO THIS WEBSITE WITH
CLARITY IN OUR MINDS. WHY WOULD WE BE HERE AND HOW DID WE GET HERE
IF OUR BRAINS WEREN’T TELLING US TO
GO IN THIS DIRECTION. SOMETHING MUST HAVE DRIVEN US TO SUCH LENGTHS
TO FIND THIS PLACE TO COMMUNICATE TO STRANGERS ABOUT THIS BIZARRE
DISORDER. FOLLOW YOUR INSTINCTS. WOMEN’S INTUITION IS USUALLY RIGHT!

Very interesting story MORMOR… My Ns are my father and
brother. I finally had my “aha” moment in
May, when I finally figured out, it is not me, it is them. 39 years
it took me. In therapy, I have pieced together
a similar scenario of my dead mother ( who died 10 years ago). I
loved her SO MUCH and she glommed
on to me for her sanity and truly adored me. But my dad had made her
SO INSECURE and CODEPENDENT that she never PASSED me the tools to
have my own boundaries with narcissism. To me sadly enough, this was
her only flaw. (as well as smoking). I don’t think she knew what to
call it, but she ALWAYS used the word “GRANDIOSITY”. Now I know what
she meant.

When she died at 60, I drank the kool-aid because I felt badly for my
father. But there have been moments escalating over the last few
years, where it has been SO SEVERE, I could not help myself around
both my brother and my dad. At first, I would run and hide and cry
myself into convulsions because even with ONE GLANCE they made me
feel like a scullery maid with severe mental problems. My husband
caught on three years ago. I would describe to him the
"indifference" and the “snubbing” and the “scapegoat” and the
"doormat" mentality. My husband at first thought I was being too
sensitive, but I remember his first “AHA” moment. He said to me " We
are not high on the totem pole around here are we? Your brother is
viewed as a DIETY!" I looked at him through my pool of tears and
knew he had caught on and it started my momentum.

I did not think he would EVER understand. But there have been so
many layers of icing to this
heavily burdened cake, I just sagged and went into a severe state of
depression this summer. I don’t think I have ever been so scared.

I was running yesterday (which really helps by the way) and I felt
that it was over in my mind. I am not only a decent person, but
people actually are happy to be around me and think that I am one of
the coolest people they have ever met. So WHY THE EXTREME OPPOSITE IN
MY OWN FAMILY? It has taken all summer for me to genuinely believe
that I am equal in the eyes of God to my brother and father.

Their list of NPD traits: ANY OF THESE SOUND FAMILIAR?
Huge amounts of grandiosity (my father has the money, my brother does
not but thinks that he does)
The “house” is more important than the "emotional state of affairs"
inside the house.
STRANGERS OPINION IS OF HUGE IMPORTANCE, WHILE DAUGHTER’S or
SISTER’S, NOT SO MUCH
Strangely materialistic ( get a projector screen tv, but can’t afford
the cable bill–only high class movies)
Culturally above it all…I MEAN ABOVE IT ALL! IF YOUR CULTURAL
OPINION DOES NOT MEET THEIR OPINION, FORGET IT!
Black and white thinking that is viewed as OPEN MINDED AND LIBERAL
THINKING.
Allowed to sell family heirlooms for money and hide it from just me
and my husband*** This was my OUT OF JAIL–FREEING moment
NO EMPATHY, NO WAY
Huge amount of projection and my brother using his twisted method of
telling me that I put myself in the role of “VICTIM” way too easily
to make me feel badly about myself.
Using DEAD SILENCE to get you to believe anything that comes out of
their mouth
BEING IN CONTROL HUGELY IMPORTANT
Have snits when you say they are not right
Never directly apologize, NEVER NEVER NEVER
Basically think that they are ROYALTY and GENIUS and you can NEVER BE
RIGHT
MANIPULATIVE
ATHIEST and if you are religious, you have to be dumb bitch as it is
not even discussed as an option.
On Sep 21, 2007, at 2:15 AM, mormor wrote:

#35

Bup
I suppose it must be the way that I wrote it after all since I at no time wrote my story there or any other story for that matter. On some of the posts in this thread it has been said that some do not want to give up. I and others certainly understand this since we at no time gave up until perhaps now. After many years I see no hope any longer for things to change so at this time in my life where I should be enjoying my golden years I live with the daily chores of being aware rather than just being myself, whoever that is at this time.
I have tried several times to reread what I wrote and did not think that it could be misunderstood but then I guess it can be. We are not all creative writers even though we may be creative in other ways. Some of us are good at math and some are good at writing others are good at other things. We are all just after all human.
While writing that last statement it dawned on me that if only the “n’s” in our lives could see things that way then perhaps they would not think that they are superior to us or to others but rather that they are equal to us and to others.
I honestly wish that many women that are not married yet take things slowly so as not to jump into a long term terrible relationship.

#36

Sorry for the delay in response, SMG and I must have posted at the same time.

SMG, thank you so much for your understanding. I value your opinion. I feel the only way to truly work it out with your N is if he’s asking for help. I’m glad that yours is and that you’re getting what you need from the rela
tionship. You have your head on your shoulders regarding Narcissim and I don’t worry about you at all :slight_smile:

bup, I’m gonna go out on a limb here but your brother and father sound like A-Holes. I’m glad you have some clarity too. Why should you spend a lifetime second guessing yourself and feeling like a second class citizen because you happened to be born with a vagina (sorry if I’m being blunt, I do that when I’m pissed off). You need to be emotionally whole for your husband, he deserves to have the real you. Not the projection that N’s want you to be.

Mormor, I take words like yours and Mamolie’s very seriously. If there’s anyone who understands the long term effect of dealing with Narcissism it’s the two of you. The thought of having children with my N scared me. I wondered how he would treat me in front of them and what they would learn about relationships because of it. I see that I wasn’t wrong about that.

Thanks all of you for your input.

#37

doubledee,Because of the personality disorder, their thinking and problem solving for every aspect of daily life is off, it is not always obvious abuse. They can not connect to you or your children in a normal healthy way, it is the uncaring indifference that does the most damage,things that are not obvious, behavior that is a bit odd, but you can’t put your finger on it.A lot of moodiness, no talking and no one knows why, or comming home and throwing temper tamtrum because someone cut him off, something happened at work, he stubbed his toe, the wind blew the wrong way, didn’t like the way a tomato was sliced, list goes on and on, every day, year after year miserable, but you don’t know it is abuse. Part of the disorder is they can not handle any stress at all, What we consider part of everyday life, they are completely stressed out over. What happens, you get married or live together and you take on more responsibility, more stress for them, buy a home, more stress for them, have children, more stress with each one.A normal process of life that normal people take in stride and become more responsible with each step of basiclly growing up, becoming adults, they can’t do that. You slowly are trained to become super responsible because of his behavior, they are childlike they can’t handle anything in life. Coarse I did not know that, he worked, my job to take care of the kids and home, nothing required for him to help out at home. I don’t know if anyone else picked up on this with their N but mine did not enjoy holidays. He did in the drinking years when other people were around, got mean on the way home or after everyone left. When he quit drinking, he was flat line for holidays, no happiness at all. They are not happy, they can suck the joy out of the room in a second, you never know why, you don’t know it is a form or control or abuse. So much of it is not so obvious and that is what causes the most damage to you and your children. You can’t do enough and your children will never do enough either. They are also objects, ok when they are little, but when they get a mind of their own and start asking questions and talking back, the mind games and efforts to control everything and everyone begins for them also. The hallmark of this disorder, no empthy, you cannot have a relationship any kind of normal life because of that, life is problematic for them alone, they will not be able to participate or contribute  in a healthy way to your life, especially family life. They don’t have love to give to anyone. If anyone is thinking of having children with an N, think long and hard, keep reading about the disorder and how their minds work, they don’t think, problem solve or love like the rest of us, your children will pay the price. I would say 75% of the abuse flies under the radar, not being able to love or have empathy and an underlying unhappiness, does all the damage. I have a lot of life to go over and examine, wanting to beat myself up, but most of the damage just was not so obvious.They are broken people that need constant care, no way to live ,especially for children. hugs mamolie

#38

I like your description Doubledee. Indeed, my brother is an ass
hole, but I wanted to define why, and I
do believe NPD is the cause. I do not need to tangle with him any
more. I have unplugged my thoughts
of anger, because I share no children with the man…

My father is an ass hole too, but unfortunately, he is all that I
have left parent wise, and in therapy I am working on how to "DODGE"
his weird NPD comments , which at this point, I don’t think he can
help. They won’t hurt me anymore but I need to know how to avoid
being hurt. The damage has already been done (like lying out
in the sun…I put protection on before, where in my youth I
put babyoil on when I tanned.) With definition
of this disorder, I now need the right protection.

On Sep 22, 2007, at 3:13 AM, DoubleDee wrote:

#39

Mamolie,

You hit the nail right on the head with these comments. But I am
perceiving what you are explaining from your children’s
perspective. I was TERRIFIED as a kid to do something wrong or show
my own wants and needs. It was all about controlling everything. We
used to dub it “white rage” but I think I know better now. He was a
handsome, smart, socially accepted person though that we put up on a
giant pedestal. Everyone did. But to STAY up on the pedestal, he
needed to abuse. My older brother was very smart, but during the
70’s became a raging alcoholic. My mother enabled him, and my father
abused him. That was just the way it was. I was 10 so I thought
that this was “NORMAL”. My NPD brother fled the scene and built his
stage for his master production of what his “LIFE” was going to look
like for him. I just sat in my bedroom and waited for my “life” to
begin. I was living in fear…and YES I FELT LIKE A VICTIM…

On Sep 22, 2007, at 8:51 AM, mamolie wrote:

#40

bup,

 My grandmother lived in a time when women had no rights, and their husbands had the right to beat them when needed to keep them in line, It was a totally male dominated society, she had three daughter, women were to stupid to be involved with the politics and world affairs, till 1920, women were finally permitted to vote. Two groups of women never gave up, fought 70 years to prove we are not stupid and deserved to participate in our government and our world. The attitude she was less than any male on the planet still remained in the minds of men.She was not a codepndant or an enabler, she was living by the rules society and men placed on her at the time. Her only value was being a wife, mother and homemaker.Women were the property of men, period. Everything she knew about life, womens purpose, value in life and survival skills were instilled and passed onto my mother, atleast she was allowed to vote, but she was also in a time period that it was ok to beat your wife, no shelters to run to, and the police would say, it is just his wife, no one was arrested. Still a male dominated society, she was valued as much as my grandmother, wife, mother and homemaker. All the women before and up to them had to develope survivial skills, to live in a male dominated society. Were they codependants, enablers, no, they were survivors, passing those skills on to their daughters to live in that male dominated society. A few more rights came along in my mothers time period, more women went into the work force, they were needed during war time in factories, they were paid less than men, because they were less than men. Quite a few changes in my time period, but the attitude of society and male domination, my mothers survival skills being less than males was passed onto me. I am the first generation to have dysfunctional famlies talked about, and labeled, codependant, enabler, because someone thought lets blame a drinking problem on the partners. So when we talk about looking into your family that you grew up in, it is a very good idea because we have been enlightened that many problems stem from our famlies. Your mother and I just did not have any of this information, and a secret disorder on top of that, your mother did the best she could do with the information she had at the time,I hope that all the women before us have a special place in heaven for what they endured, NPD has always been around,and it was a totally male dominated society, they didn't even have the right to complain or get help,just the way it was, they did the best they could. We are making progress, but just as my mother instilled her not having much value in society, onto me ,Men have also instilled their superior attitude onto their sons and we are still a male dominated society, inspite of our gains. knowledge is power, if more people knew about this diorder, it would prevent so many more from enduring the pain and the damage it causes. As Maya Angelou says, "When you know better, you do better." An informed public is an educated public, how do we get the information out there. I feel for you not being valued by family members, but you are special, unique and have great value, simply because you are you, you have the chance to create everything you missed out on with in your own family now with your husband and children, Embrace that, and love them with all your heart, you will get it all back from them, your heart will be filled with joy and love through them. hugs mamolie