Sam Vakin's Help to Us All

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

It is very easy it seems in today’s times to find fault, blame and to pick every single thing and pick it and people to pieces. Myself I am sick of it.

I am very thankful to have found on the Internet Sam Vakin’s site and publications.
For years I have suffered - amounting to a lifetime with an N parent and never understood what in the world all this bizarreness was about. It has torn our family apart, destroyed two marriages, damaged myself and siblings including the grandchildren and possibly even caused a premature death of a loved one AND I cannot underestimate the suffering and damage Narcissists can do to those who love and care about them.
It is an illness so diabolocial even the most logical can be bowled over by it!
And you and no-one else will ever “fix it”.

Until you have lived in fully you cannot judge someone else.

I might remind everyone also that there is neglible information out there on this subject and those of us living it or had lived it can forget finding any help in this matter. I know because I tried for years and therapists, clergy and other family are clueless. Mine calls it “IT”.

Psychological abuse is real, all encompassing, can exact untold pain even in generations to come.

I am thankful and always will be for Sam’s contribution and enlightenment on this subject!!! Knowledge is power and in understanding is some measure of comfort and peace.

For those of you who are entertaining yourselves in ridiculing, poking fun at, and whatever else you find so intelligent in your mind’s eye to say to him and about him maybe you need to take a look in the mirror and be real and examine what gaping holes are in you that you need to do this to feel “big”. Your issues yourselves are glaring us all in the face!

Thanks Sam!
Stay around please.

Viki B

#2

Excuse me CZBZ,

I never said any such thing…

As Blitzen has also pointed out, there are ongoing disagreements about the DSM-IV criteria defining the NPD.

Please endeavor to manipulate facts WITHOUT putting words in my mouth to support yourself in future?

…and incidentally, even in the event of “ongoing disagreements about the DSM-IV criteria” (and there are plenty) it still wouldn’t follow that the exploitative agenda of a convicted conman with no qualifications or integrity was a more valid option.

The fact remains that Narcissistic personality disorder was established as a DSM category and it is in terms of that DSM category (and not exploitative online psychobabble) that clinicians actually diagnose.

Susiejo

I have no problem in times of hurt, stress, frustration,etc calling people who hurt us names such as evil, vampires, or monsters. We are all human.

The problem is when one is in such an emotional state, reads Samvak, and then concludes that this other person is IN FACT, really evil, a vampire or a monster. This is how Sam sells books, and it is what makes him dangerous.

I’d go one further and say that pretty much everything Sam writes is entirely about himself, but not about the REALITY of himself, rather about who he (in his twisted little mind) wants us to see him as.

It’s all very carefully crafted to play to one option on what people want to believe so they believe it…the little sh*t used me as an (unwitting) sounding board and even a (unwilling) guinea pig for some of his later “gospels”.

He reinforces learned helplessness in real victims, then presents his cult as a “savior”. He also reinforces abusers who want to see themselves (or even, in some cases, consciously present themselves) as victims. Then puts it all together with “handmaidens” to use every sophistacated trick in the book to abuse and eradicate dissent.

Beats me how nobody ever seems to see that people who spend years studying the minutae of conditioning and emotional abuse are almost certain to be tempted to abuse that knowledge sooner or later, and with many it becomes a way of life…

Reinforced by the cult.

GD

#3

I know what Ronningstam said. I am asking how a narcissist could be a sadist. It is a contradiction in terms and functions.

A sadist takes pleasure in others pain. A narcissist cannot feel others pain. He therefore, could not take pleasure from such.

#4

Victim,

welcome aboard. Despite what some bullies may say, theres room for everyone here.

So weird things happen when one turns 64???

Is it like a second or third adolescence?

…something to look forward to :smiley:

#6

"A narcissist cannot feel others pain. " 

Are ya sure about that, Susiejo?? Current research suggests narcissists are able to empathize and can even experience loyalty to some degree. Shall I find the research and quote it for you??

Be more than happy to do that! 

Hugs,

CZBZ

#7

One of the most notable features of the victims of exploitation is the confidence that they have in the one who exploits them.

It is probably the origin of the term “confidence trick”.

Unfortunately there is nothing remotely “diabolical” about Narcissistic personality disorder, it is simply a defence mechanism out of control in at least 5 of the following ways:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

NB No horns, no tails no “diabolisme” …just rather sad defence mechanisms that err heavily on the side of “people pleasing”.

Psychological abuse most certainly is real, all encompassing, and it WILL go on exacting untold pain in generations to come, but is is not called Narcissistic personality disorder, and maliciously misrepresenting that fact to exploit others IS just another form of psychological abuse…

…as is witchhunting anyone formally diagnosed with NPD.

GD

#8

Vaknin’s work has been so helpful to me that I already own - and have lent out - his book, which is essentially reproduced on his website.

vikib npd-cpt6649@lists.careplace.com wrote: I am very thankful to have found on the Internet Sam Vakin’s site and publications.

Rene

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#9

I disagree. I see Lucifer’s sin (cf. Isaiah 14) - in a way the fundamental sin - in NPD. NPD is barely distinguishable from a frame of mind in which a creature considers itself to be God.

Vaknin touches on this theme in his Jesus thread (http://www.careplace.com/forum/topic?id=6392&fs=40) in which Vaknin aligns the hallmarks of NPD with vignettes drawn from what is said of Jesus in the gospels.

I see abject evil in the Ns I have known, evil so vivid that I have trouble seeing how it can be within merely human capacity.

The evil seems to me to arise from a fundamental inversion of the relation between creator and creature: the universe is ordered to the Ns own glory, and the meaning of the universe is to be found in and through the N (cf. Revelation 4:11, “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created”).

NPD as a defense mechanism is, however, perfectly intelligible on the grounds that the N, as God, is indignant that the universe fails to give the N the respect the N deserves.

blitzen npd-cpt6649@lists.careplace.com wrote: Unfortunately there is nothing remotely “diabolical” about Narcissistic personality disorder, it is simply a dwfwnce mechanism out of control in at least 5 of the following ways:…

Rene

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#10

NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and AsPD (Antisocial Personality
Disorder)

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders16.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders15.html

#11

Thank you for your kind words, Viki!

What amazes me is this:

I have dedicated 11 years of my life to this topic, authored 9 books,
countless articles, granted a zillion interviews. No one can dispute that I
have CREATED public awareness of narcissistic abuse and narcissism in
general.

In this group I contribute regularly and post articles and resources from a
VARIETY of sources, not only mine.

The people who snipe at me do nothing but post occasionally.

Yet, they feel that they have the right to pass judgment on me. Though they
contribute ZILCH to the group, they feel SUPERIOR. This is one of the
criteria for NPD: a feeling of haughtiness incommensurate with the
narcissist’s actual, real-life accomplishments and actions.

This is the purest example of malignant narcissism. This is why I stick
around: most of the “victims” in this group are, actually, raging
narcissists. I am learning a lot from their misbehavior.

Take care there!

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “vikib” npd-cpt6649@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:06 PM
Subject: [npd] Sam Vakin’s Help to Us All

#12

Narcissism and Evil

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal65.html

Narcissism and Religion

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal45.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq47.html

Take care.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “mercenary” npd-cpt6649@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] Sam Vakin’s Help to Us All

#13

Sam,

I notice that you do not even attempt to address my response above. Because you can’t, because what I am saying is simply true.

Regarding your red herring, what you are conveniently leaving out of the picture is the hard fact that I have been privy to what you have being doing on this topic for 9 of those years. Sometimes intimately so, at least until you finally “got it” that nothing you could do, or say would make me choose to be an accessory.

You have “dedicated 11 years” to “raising public awareness” of nothing but yourself, while cold bloodedly selecting the most abusive people you could find (not just because the good people would not do it) to create a toxic little personality cult for you, along the lines you observed in your time with the moonies.

You ensure that anyone who challenges, or even ignores, you is harassed, hounded and maliciously discredited.

Meanwhile, back at the farm, your “9 books” are load of mischievous, pseudo psychological codswallop written, not to inform or define, but rather to suit your mood on the day (whether self pity, sniping at someone who had offended you, veiled threats, not so veiled boasts or other) and aimed exclusively at cold bloodedly exploiting vulnerable people.

Partly for money, but most so that you can kid yourself you are some kind of Reb or Scholar…instead of the two bit shyster you really are…and WHO CARES how many people you re-victimise, hurt and harm in the process?

You certainly don’t…

GD

#14

We also seem to have a little recognition problem going on…

“Malignant Narcissism” is a term used primarily by Kernberg as an equivalent to psychopath (with an heavy suggestion, never fully established, of environment rather than congenital origin).

“Narcissistic personality disorder” and “pathological narcissism” are two totally different conditions, and “narcissism” is just a term for an essential component in the human psych.

YET…

In strictest accord with the cult of Samvak, all of the above (and anything else that doesn’t suit you) must be lumped together under the relatively meaningless acronym “N” for “narcissist”.

Which planet is that valid, responsible information on?

GD

#15

You know Sam, you provide such a good example of Blixen’s points about you defining NPD as a function of yourself.

Now criticizing Sam Vakin is another aspect of NPD.

#16

Folks,

This message board is called “CARE PLACE”… I wasn’t aware when I first joined in it was a place to smash those who are trying to help to pieces.
Good grief…where are your heads at?

This is a site for “support”!

The ones such as Sam or anybody else contributing information to assist those who hurt is supposed to be for just that.

I don’t understand those of you who have to belittle…
It’s is making this board a travesty.

Due to Sam’s sites I have found more places for help and reading…
Anybody out there who is in a bad place, ignore the bad and take the good - look for that and ignore the rest!

#17

Sam is here solely to exploit victims, misrepresent a medical condition and incite prejudice against all who suffer from it for his personal advantage.

On my planet we would not usually file that under “helpful”.

GD

#18

Thank you for sharing my honest feelings about you openly Phoenix.

Heaven knows I have had to sit on my hands often enough to avoid sharing them myself, but you missed the important bit:

Phoenix,

I did not say this:

what you say about feeling your role is something akin to protecting the forum members from users, betrayers and conmen/women.

You did. Please do not put words in my mouth.

Perhaps I should just be very honest with you. Over the past few days you have absolutely convinced me that you are self centered, extremely manipulative, and basically a complete phony.

Now, what are you actually after?

GD

…and I was just trying to remember who ELSE, apart from CZBZ tried that “putting words in my mouth” thing recently too…

GD

#19

I have said this before and I’ll say it again. I joined this group because I wanted to find common ground. I wanted to find people dealing with similar circumstances, and learn from their experience.

My only issue with Mr. Vakin is that he doesn’t seem to be very professional in his responses. I am confused as to why Mr. Vakin does not choose to rise above the comments that he finds to be petty or mean spirited. The taunting and verbal bashing is pointless and a huge turn off to those of us not involved in it. When confronted with juvenile behavior in others, it is better to rise above it. Responding in kind only fuels the fire.

At this point, the whole thing reminds me of a car crash. When you pass one on the highway, it’s human nature to slow down and watch. I hesitate to leave the group because there are periodically posts that I find both helpful and informative, unfortunately, I have to wade through a number of useless posts to get to the ones of value.

----- Original Message ----
From: blitzen npd-cpt6649@lists.careplace.com
To: ukneeqstuff@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2007 12:08:45 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Sam Vakin’s Help to Us All

#20

Jen67,

It actually is not considered “juvenile” to point out when somebody is misrepresenting a medical disorder, inciting prejudice against those who suffer from it, and, as a, variously, self styled, “journalist” and financial advisor, with prior convictions for criminal fraud, very probably is not qualified to define a medical condition at all.

It is usually considered, instead, to be common sense.

GD

#21

I joined this forum for the idea that I could find others in similar stages of healing. When I found out that Dr. Vaknin was here, and posting regularly, I thought, "Well, I have healed, I can discuss with Dr. Vaknin just as well as the next person. " No so. I have asked certain things, and got stomped on for my effort. So I quit talking completely to Dr. Vaknin. He does deserve the initial, N.

So I have decided that I will post only to the people that I know will be at the least, pleasant. I do love a friendly argument, discussion, debate. But I choose to not enter into a debate with someone who has no good will to offer.

And I AM rambling here, lol, But thank you to Dr. Vaknin for a lot of his knowledge about this disorder. He is one of many authors with information I read. (See Sam? My rambling was in your favor. )
wahela