This was no normal relationship

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

I’m thinking about how partners of N/ASP’s become so pretzeled up during the relationship, and why the breakup is so much different afterwards than it is in a normal breakup.

Is it ONLY the Stockholm Syndrome bonding that happens? Is it ONLY the PTSD?

Its too bad Dr McCullough deleted his membership, I suspect he could have had something to say in response.

I’ve heard from a few members now that theres a distinct difference in how we feel and think while still in the relationship, doing all the mental gymnastics…thats VERY familiar to me while I was with my exN and nothing at all like my experience with my normal exH. And hearing about how horrible the recovery process is, which for me is also familiar postN but not at all like what I experienced when my normal marriage dissolved.

What is it that creates that intense and distinct difference in US with a N/ASP?

#2

Yes it makes perfect sense.

#3

Hi,

These may be of help - click on the links:

Narcissism by Proxy

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq42.html

Rescue Fantasies - Surviving the Narcissist

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq80.html

The Malignant Optimism of the Abused

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal27.html

The Inverted Narcissist - Codependence and Relationships with Abusive
Narcissists

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq66.html

Codependence and the Dependent Personality Disorder

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders22.html

The Dependent Patient - A Case Study

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders56.html

Danse Macabre - Trauma bonding and the Stockholm Syndrome

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily.html

The Cult of the Narcissist

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal79.html

The Narcissist’s Victims

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq38.html

Victim Reactions to Abuse by Narcissists and Psychopaths

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders70.html

Mourning the Narcissist

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq68.html

The Three Forms of Closure

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse17.html

Back to La-la Land

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal78.html

The Spouse/Mate/Partner of the Narcissist

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq6.html

Divorcing the Narcissist and the Narcissistic Psychopath - How Do I Get Rid
of Him?

http://samvak.tripod.com/5.html

Traumas as Social Interactions

http://samvak.tripod.com/trauma.html

How Victims are Affected by Abuse

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily21.html

How Victims are Affected by Abuse - Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily22.html

How Victims are Affected by Abuse - Recovery and Healing

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily23.html

Narcissists and Personality disordered Mates, Spouses, and Partners

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/5013

Projection and Projective Identification - Abuser in Denial

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/5002

Approach-Avoidance Repetition Complex and Fear of Intimacy

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/5000

Guilt? What guilt?

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4931

Narcissists, psychopaths, sex, and marital fidelity

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4920

The Narcissist or Psychopath Hates your Independence and Personal Autonomy

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4959

I miss him so much - I want him back!

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4934

Take care.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6976@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:49 AM
Subject: [npd] this was no normal relationship

#4

Don't you think it has to do with the dual personalities, the extreems in behaviors, appears loving and human, and cruel, mean and not so human like. It is shocking at first, but then the good guy shows up and you think it will be ok, but it happens again and again. They have a million excuses that can make half sense, they tell you you are over sensitive, it was not that bad. You are over reacting. They feel nothing and are not inpacted by anything they do, so you look and feel like you are having an extreem reaction to nothing. They manipulate your feeling and get you to question yourself when you react to their craziness.It is a slow process of conditioning and brain washing you to live in their messed up reality.

They rearrange your mind and thinking about everything, nothing is normal. You start to doubt your perceptions and your instints because they twist and spin everything. You can't believe or trust what you see and hear, they don't match up. The longer it goes on, I think we start to numb and shut down feelings to survive the craziness waiting for good guy to show up and stay .That human side, you think you will get that, at some point.

You start to believe that Prince Charming is trapped inside this person and with love patience and caring you will be the one to release him and you will live happily ever after. You know something is wrong,You love the good guy, but we don't know he is not real, we don't know about NPD.We don't know he is a lost cause. He is the worm at the end of your fishing line, bait to catch and hook you in. Then he devours you, it is the extreems in behaviors, mixing pain and pleasure. He turns your world upside down, you are thrown of balance, no stability, you don't know where you stand or which end is up, confusion and crazymaking are the order of the day.

He is at war in his head, you are the enemy, they brainwash and torture you, mix pain, pleasure and crumbs of kindness, they take prisoners, not partners, you became a prisoner in his pivate hidden war in his head. You survived an emotional holocaust, that's why it is so hard and the fact that you loved someone who does not care, not one bit, about how or what they did to you. Nothing is normal, nothing will make sense about them or their behavior, but we have to accept all that, to start recovering and move on. People around us do not know we are P.O.W. and in need of T.L.C, support and understanding is hard to find, you have to live it to know how crazy and sad it is.

                                               Hugs mamolie

#5

Does the Narcissist Have a Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity
Disorder)?

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4950

Narcissists as Drama Queens

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4948

Narcissists and Mood Disorders

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/5067

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “mamolie” npd-cpt6976@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] this was no normal relationship

#6

I wish I knew which of those links would answer my original question.

I think I’veread them all, more than once over the last year, but I dont recall which of them answers my specific question, and the two that I’ve just reread now, dont.

I know you hate being harped upon about this Sam, so I apologize if this is upsetting to you. I suspect you feel like youve contributed in a valuable way by listing 30 links (!!!). I’d like to just bring into awareness that I havent posted much to this forum in the last week, and I posted this question (like the last one) because its an important issue to me. A response that is meaningful , even if its only 4 links, but pertinent ones to the question would be highly appreciated by me.

Maybe the problem is that I wasnt precise enough in my question.

Besides the Stockholm Syndrome and PTSD, what is it about a relationship with a N/ASP that creates the mental-gymnastics state of mind (I call it being pretzeled up) that we survivors seem to be cemented in…and why is it even after we’re out, the recovery period is so intense, so difficult and so unlike that of a normal relationship? Even after we’ve stopped loving them, even after we’ve stopped liking them, stopped wondering about them, caring about what they do or think-- how is it the experience of them has such a tight grip on us?

Frankly, if this was the best relationship I ever had, if it was that beautiful and perfect a love, I could imagine like Love in the Time of Cholera, I wouldnt mind having my heart affected for the rest of my life…but when its this many years of garbage, selfishness, mistreatment, deceit and betrayal and NOT BEING CARED ABOUT? I’d LIKE to be like a N and just surgically remove him from my memory and heart…so why cant I? I hate the asshole, he doesnt deserve me being affected.

#7

what was going on in my brain, in my heart that I wasnt aware of that turned me from a self-assured self-made smart strong woman, into someone who was always walking on egg shells, constantly anxious and health was worsening from the years of constant anxiety, self-doubting, always wondering what I was doing wrong, how can I change, what does he need from me, how do I ease my expectations so he doesnt feel so “demanded upon”, make his life easier so he can acheive his dreams, be a better partner, is he lying or am I paranoid, am I getting the short end of the stick or am I being a bitch, I am miserable, I’ve been miserable for a long time but I’m so in love with him, I cant stay and I cant leave, he loves me but he doesnt care about my feelings, he promises me the marriage and the winery but he’s lying to me and cheating on me…and on and on and on.

I look back at what he did, and what I was thinking, how I was constantly wrestling with myself internally, and it was constant, for 5 years…is that what creates the stranglehold they have on us? that we somehow became obsessed with how to chnage and make the relationship work, or how to prepare ourselves for the next injury…is it the 24/7 thinking/worrying/crying that creates the insane poison that never seems to completely leave our systems?

#8

OK so I’m thinking about this on and off during the day.

For me at least, the need to be hypervigilant, of being “on” 24/7, and of being convinced to accommodate accommodate accommodate turned my once wonderful relationship into an obsession. I remember distinctly feeling as though, if I didnt stay on top of the game all the time, not only would I be the cause, yet again, of making him unhappy or irritated, but also hypervigilant to protect myself from yet more lies, more betrayal, of being played for a fool.

I was also thinking just now, that its also something like Mamolie stated about being twisted up by the lies. We love this person so much, and we are committed to them, and we try to hold in the space that theyve been abused as children and so we make concessions and considerations, or give extra chances and do-overs…whatever…but we know…we just know we’re being played. Except our partners are so fucking smart at hiding the evidence, lying by omission or just outright convincing as liars, and I dont know about you but this was a chronic, CHRONIC state of affairs in my relationship, that every single complaint, or issue or request I had was ALWAYS turned around so I ended up feeling like the wrong-doer, the unreasonable one, the insensitive over-demanding bitch who needed to apologize for having hurt his feelings and criticizing him too much…so that NOT ONE of my issues, that were reasonable issues in any relationship were ever addressed, nor were amends ever made.

But he always ended up making me doubt myself, or feel bad that I dared open my mouth. How did he do that? I was telling my therapist the other day, I couldnt write out the script if she asked me to, he was that cunning and skillful and manipulative. Hundreds of discussions that turned into horrible arguments where I’d end up a sobbing mess making apologies when HE was the one who had neglected or hurt ME. How the hell did he do that? And how did he do that hundreds of times over 7 years?

What a slimey bastard!

seriously…thats insidious and emotionally abusive, or am I the only one who feels that way?

So I’m left for years not really trusting my gut anymore, because it seems on the surface I’m always wrong, so wrong I need to apologize and work my ass off to make amends when he was the bastard all along.

Thats despicable dont you think? And something that has long range emotional affects. I dont know how children do it who have parents who are that emotionally abusive. I dont know how children of N/ASP’s survive without going insane. It was hard enough for me as a 44 yr old in a 7 year long relationship with one.

I’d love to hear from the children of N’s how they managed to survive with a brain that can actually think and discern. Bup? anyone?

#9

"I'm thinking about how partners of N/ASP's become so pretzeled up during the relationship, and why the breakup is so much different afterwards than it is in a normal breakup."  

Hi Phoenix! I'd like to read your last few messages and reply later...I'm up to me eyeballs in wallpaper and paint with twenty-five people showing up on Christmas Eve. Miserable as it is, I MUST discipline myself to a schedule or we'll be dining underneath ladders and plastic drop cloths!

But I do take umbrage with your description of me as a pretzel. By the end of our marriage, I was looking more like a Crispy Creme Donut. 

LOL

Hugs,

CZBZ

 

#10

ahh…so while I was bending my heart and mind in every which direction to accommodate, you were getting all gooey and sweet in the head?

Niiiiice :slight_smile:

Its about time we become Chateaubriand again dont you think?

(aww man, I’ll never eat Chateaubriand again, that was “our meal”…bastard)

OK, its time we become… prime rib again…yeah thats it.

#11

Pheonix, I was clenched for 39 years and now I don’t clench. My
therapist saw that my thumbs are out of my grip and she stopped the
therapy right when she saw this small movement change in me.

I always knew that my father was going to be the forefront of my
issues, but I couldn’t explain it and I was in such extreme and
painful denial. I was SATURATED in denial if you can understand what
that means. My brother just added the second layer, confirming my
role as a stupid loser. NEITHER OF WHICH I AM by ANY STRETCH OF THE
IMAGINATION. I ALWAYS THOUGHT I was not good enough…BUT I HAVE SO
MANY FRIENDS, I CAN’T STOP COUNTING THEM, MY HUSBAND ADORES ME,
ETC. …

BUT NOW I KNOW…and the EAGLE situation gave me proof
of their distorted ways…It was the exact scenario I was looking
for… My mother was looking out for me from upstairs…

But Pheonix, thank you for giving me credit as a child victimized by
npd. I have been insane at times the last 39 years. But I thought
it was normalcy to feel so badly about myself around my family. THEY
WANT ME TO FEEL BADLY…Can you imagine WANTING your daughter to
feel badly? Almost for SPORT?

How could I POSSIBLY MAKE THIS UP? WHY WOULD I WANT TO? WHY WOULD I
WANT TO BE THE VICTIM ALL THOSE YEARS? THAT IS WHAT I DON’T
UNDERSTAND WHEN PEOPLE MISCONSTRUE NARCISSISTIC ABUSE FOR POOR ME
SYNDROME. WHY WOULD I WANT TO FEEL LOUSY ALL THE TIME? FOR SPORT?..
On Dec 2, 2007, at 2:45 PM, thephoenix101 wrote:

#12

Bup,

I think people who have never been in a relationship of any kind with a N dont understand it, and they want to measure our reactions, our perceptions, our recoveries by normal standards.

Thats whats prompting me to ask this question of myself and all of you. I dont think we can measure them by normal standards. They werent normal people, and we didn t have normal relationships, and somewhere along the line we had something not normal happen to us, some kind of alteration or shift take place inside us that I think requires something not normal to get us to shift again, to un-alter.

When I think about how much i loved my exN, I mean really felt like my heart was bursting I was so full of warmth and care and attachment and…adoration even. And I think of that kind of love and warmth in the heart of a defenseless child who isntead of looking toward a peer to have ti returned, is looking toward her parent, in whom there needs to be complete trust, my heart just breaks for kids like you.

My son was born premature and he was colicky for 4 months, SCREAMING in digestive pain from 7am to 7pm every day for 120+ days. There were days early on I could barely stand it, I wanted to stop his pain but there was nothing I could do for him except hold him and support him and offer comfort and understanding…and empathy…empathy.

I cant imagine, when I look at my son tonight, or anyone else’s children, I couldnt imagine looking at a photo of you as a child, that your father blanketed you with anything as despicable as you describe when what you needed was love, support, and empathy.

Its the same when I think about my exN. I dont get how he could look at someone as loving and committed and supportive as me, who valued him so much, and decide repeatedly, consistently and over years to use me, abuse me, betray me, deceive me and neglect me with no empathy.

It boggles my mind how N’s can do that. its so…abominable.

So I’m sorry and very sad that you were mistreated by the very person who should have been helping you build yourself up and become more self-assured and brave.

And I’m so glad youre on the other side of that today, and feeling your creativity, your strength, your value and your lovableness.

big hugs

#13

My daughter was exposed to a ranting and raving
alcohoic N, as I have self dignosed him from observing
the many posts here and also extensive research. She
subsequently has severe emotional problems, which are
associated of being an ACOA, and also dealing with a
narcissistic father. Her emotional battles began when
she was around 20. I think she is suffering also from
PTSS because the synptoms manifested at a later age.
She is almost 26 now, and still has never quite grown
up. Money is indispenseable and has no real value to
her.She is super irresponsible and cannot make one
solid decision. Promises are always made but can NEVER
be kept. Her father of course, in my marriage to him
for 29 years, does not have a problem…no way!!! did
he act like a beserk alcoholic idiot while I was
married to him. I was the CRAZY one and I needed help.
It literly has broken my heart to see my beautiful
daughter in such a state of mental
anguish…depression, anxiety and has isolated herself
from friends and family. I have finally realized,
after many years of racking my brain on how to help
her, is that you cannot help someone who doesn’t want
or need your help. I have to think about myself now,
and try to heal the pain of what I had to endure for
so long. I am pretty much over it, as I am a very
strong person and am trying to get back in the dating
scene. I just ended a three month relationship with
someone who was just as controling and manipulative as
my ex, but without the alcohol. He consistently wanted
to see me, almost on a daily basis and I could not
tolerate that, I enjoy my own space and time. I now
realize if I had REALLY wanted to be with him, I would
have made time…now I know that I didn’t really
want to see him and found myself making excuses of why
I couldn’t. And so, life goes on and I am doing my
best each and everyday to be happy. I only wish i
could “FIX” my daugher and see her grow into a
responsible, self sufficent person who can learn to
find happiness in this life.
— thephoenix101 npd-cpt6976@lists.careplace.com
wrote:

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OK so I’m thinking about this on and off during the
day.

For me at least, the need to be hypervigilant, of
being “on” 24/7, and of being convinced to
accommodate accommodate accommodate turned my once
wonderful relationship into an obsession. I
remember distinctly feeling as though, if I didnt
stay on top of the game all the time, not only would
I be the cause, yet again, of making him unhappy or
irritated, but also hypervigilant to protect myself
from yet more lies, more betrayal, of being played
for a fool.

I was also thinking just now, that its also
something like Mamolie stated about being twisted up
by the lies. We love this person so much, and we
are committed to them, and we try to hold in the
space that theyve been abused as children and so we
make concessions and considerations, or give extra
chances and do-overs…whatever…but we know…we
just know we’re being played. Except our partners
are so fucking smart at hiding the evidence, lying
by omission or just outright convincing as liars,
and I dont know about you but this was a chronic,
CHRONIC state of affairs in my relationship, that
every single complaint, or issue or request I had
was ALWAYS turned around so I ended up feeling like
the wrong-doer, the unreasonable one, the
insensitive over-demanding bitch who needed to
apologize for having hurt his feelings and
criticizing him too much…so that NOT ONE of my
issues, that were reasonable issues in any
relationship were ever addressed, nor were amends
ever made.

But he always ended up making me doubt myself, or
feel bad that I dared open my mouth. How did he do
that? I was telling my therapist the other day, I
couldnt write out the script if she asked me to, he
was that cunning and skillful and manipulative.
Hundreds of discussions that turned into horrible
arguments where I’d end up a sobbing mess making
apologies when HE was the one who had neglected or
hurt ME. How the hell did he do that? And how did
he do that hundreds of times over 7 years?

What a slimey bastard!

seriously…thats insidious and emotionally
abusive, or am I the only one who feels that way?

So I’m left for years not really trusting my gut
anymore, because it seems on the surface I’m always
wrong, so wrong I need to apologize and work my ass
off to make amends when he was the bastard all
along.

Thats despicable dont you think? And something that
has long range emotional affects. I dont know how
children do it who have parents who are that
emotionally abusive. I dont know how children of
N/ASP’s survive without going insane. It was hard
enough for me as a 44 yr old in a 7 year long
relationship with one.

I’d love to hear from the children of N’s how they
managed to survive with a brain that can actually
think and discern. Bup? anyone?

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#14

Misha:

PLEASE, PLEASE, GIVE your daughter patience. BEEN THERE, DONE
THAT!!. Not only was my father
an alcoholic narcissist but he NEVER ONCE has been proud of me or
told me he loved me. NOT ONCE IN
MY WHOLE LIFE . Then MY MOM DIED in my late 20s. GIVE HER PATIENCE.
She is in A WORLD OF HURT. Alanon MAY help, but of course I was
always embarrassed by that. Her wheels are spinning in her
head, trust me. She will come to a place where she can’t take it
anymore. I did…I suffered from both PTSD ( passed on through
two generations from WWII horrors), I suffered from voicelessness,
betrayal, I suffered from inferiority complex and narcissistic
abuse. I AM BETTER. I PROMISE…I will never look back…SHE WILL
LEARN. If you have any questions, contact me privately Misha. We
have lots to talk about…

Misha,
On Dec 2, 2007, at 6:08 PM, Misha wrote:

#15

Thanks for the encouragement, I really do appreciate
it…at what address can I contact you privately???
— bup npd-cpt6976@lists.careplace.com wrote:

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Misha:

PLEASE, PLEASE, GIVE your daughter patience. BEEN
THERE, DONE
THAT!!. Not only was my father
an alcoholic narcissist but he NEVER ONCE has been
proud of me or
told me he loved me. NOT ONCE IN
MY WHOLE LIFE . Then MY MOM DIED in my late 20s.
GIVE HER PATIENCE.
She is in A WORLD OF HURT. Alanon MAY help, but of
course I was
always embarrassed by that. Her wheels are spinning
in her
head, trust
me. She will come to a place where she can’t take
it
anymore. I did…I suffered from both PTSD (
passed on through
two generations from WWII horrors), I suffered from
voicelessness,
betrayal, I suffered from inferiority complex and
narcissistic
abuse. I AM BETTER. I PROMISE…I will never look
back…SHE WILL
LEARN. If you have any questions, contact me
privately Misha. We
have lots to talk about…

Misha,
On Dec 2, 2007, at 6:08 PM, Misha wrote:

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#16

Look at careplace front page and you can email people
privately…
On Dec 2, 2007, at 8:34 PM, Misha wrote:

#17

I remember distinctly feeling as though, if I didnt stay on top of the game all the time, not only would I be the cause, yet again, of making him unhappy or irritated, but also hypervigilant to protect myself from yet more lies, more betrayal, of being played for a fool. -Pheonix

Wow, does that hit home. In a very strange way, I feel better now. Better knowing that I KNOW and what I'm dealing with. I know he will lie. I know he is going to lie again. I know it's because he needs to, it's what is going on in his brain and it his way of thinking, it is the way he sees the world, his picture of the world is so different than mine. He feels like he is nothing, and the only way you get anything is this world is to lie, manipulate and tell people what you think they want to hear, put on the mask they want.  He does not beleive, as this point, that there is another way to do it, or at least he does not believe there is another way to do it that would work or be safe for him.  I think he sees on some level it may be safe for US, for you or for me, but not HIM.  He is too unworthy to have anything authentic to offer, so he lies, lies lies.  You will not love him unless he lies! I think he envies those of us who don't feel we are so worthless that we have to lie to get someone to like us, love us, listen to us, see us, hear us, enjoy our company.   It is the way the world was presented to him as he grew up. He treats ME the way his parents, especially his mother, treated him. He lied and manipulated his way through childhood, so much so, he doesn't know now who he is. Can you imagine not knowing who you are?  Not having a self?  He will continue to lie. I know this. I am sorry he feels that way, but I do not feel that way. And so, I am going to focus on me, because I know who I am. My life, the things I want to do, the pleasures of living, however small or minute, I knew who I was before I met him and I still do.  If he lies to me, even if it's about another women, even if he is talking behind my back to another woman to gain sympathy from her...that is HIS horrific sense of absolute insecurity and sense of shame that he has to do that.  I do not HAVE to do that.  I do not have to seek solace from another man to make me feel good about myself for a few fleeting minutes. I do not have to blame someone else when I've done something wrong or made a mistake.  I can take the heat,  I know i"m human, I am not ashamed of my humanity the way he is.  I am the lucky one.  I am the lucky one.  I feel sorry for him, but will not tolerate his hurtful and disruptive behavior or allow it to hurt me any longer.  I was a happy, whole person before I met him.  I AM and WILL continue to be a happy, whole person while with him or interracting w/ him because my eyes are wide open and I will no longer be second guessing myself anymore. NO MORE second guessing myself. And I will continue to be a happy, whole person when and if he is no longer in my life.  We all wound eachother to some extend, to some extent is it part of relationships and growth.  But I will not allow him to wound me beyond whatever lesson or growth I needed in having him in my life.  His wound is HIS. It is not mine.  I will not catch his disease.  I will no longer put one minute of my  time into wondering where he is, who he's with, what he's saying, checking email, checking his whereabouts, wondering if he loves me today or not.  THAT IS ALL ABOUT HIM. It has nothing to do with me, and while I feel badly he struggles this way, it is NOT about me.  If he is behaving in a way that is so egregious that I must get away from him for good, I trust I will know that without my investment in monitoring or even thinking about it.  I trust I will know. I trust myself.

PTSD, Stockholm syndrom.  Yes.  It's hard. Somone one who has not loved a person who is like this...would NOT know, would NOT be able to relate, they would NOT know.  They would measure and respond based on their understanding of a more 'normal' relationship. This is NOT a typical, normal relationship.  It is NOT normal. Take normal and turn it upside and spin it...that is what it's like.  It's like falling down the rabbit hole.  I never had to work this hard in my 10 year marriage and subsequent divorce.  I have never had someone test my reslove, my sense of self, and my sense of reality the way this relationship has. My salvation will not be in healing him or hoping he will heal or trying to change him or engaing in magical thinking.  My salvation is in focusing on me AS separate from him.  And realizing I have a self and protecting that SELF first and foremost. I WAS OKAY BEFORE I MET HIM. I am okay now.  I have a SELF, a ME.  He does NOT. I was a happy person before I met him. I am okay.    

#18

I wrote in a prior message: "But I do take umbrage with your description of me as a pretzel. By the end of our marriage, I was looking more like a Crispy Creme Donut." 

And Phoenix replied: "so while I was bending my heart and mind in every which direction to accommodate, you were getting all gooey and sweet in the head?"

Well, not exactly. I tend to have a pretty hard head as a matter of fact. Becoming a donut requires a nice fat hole in the center of your being. Narcissists are very good at drilling holes into someone's heart, ya know!

Hugs,

CZ

 

#19

My donut hole has grown back. I know that I am the sane one. I have
to check my jelly in the middle periodically and read the diagnoses
of NPD to reassure my jelly that it is going to stay in my donut. But
it is secured today. The jelly might spill out again, but my shell
has been so severely burned, I need the jelly to protect my third
degree burns…I will try to preserve my jelly for as long as I
humanly can. I take that vow today.

On Dec 3, 2007, at 12:54 PM, CZBZ wrote:

#20

Can you even possible imagine selling a family heirloom ( from their
summer home in which their dead mother INSISTED NEVER TO SELL
ANTIQUES FROM THIS HOUSE as it ruins families forever) for $51,000.00
and justify keeping the money because you bought a projector screen
tv for art movies but can’t afford cable?And a mahogany murphy bed
for out of town guests that was “specifically made for their art deco
condo (and went into debt over) the month your unborn child is born
and LIE to your father and say it is for his private education
because you can’t move to the suburbs because it is too mundane to
live in the suburbs?And invite your sister to meet the child and
insist that she go to your play to ensure a round of applause given
to you, even though you just stole from her? And HE KNEW IT ALL
ALONG? And make everyone in the family not tell the sister who JUST
lost her only remaining mother to the same disease they lost their
mother to?So she has NO ONE to aid or guide her with her children.
And twist the story to make her look like the selfish one who has
"victimization” issues and really needs therapy to work on herself.
And then GIVE her a 1/3 of the money, but then LIE ABOUT THE AMOUNT
and short change her $5,000. And then justify a three week vacation
with 16 of his friends soon after, and SQUEEZE her out of her own
family vacation? And then insist that the family go to the Dominican
Republic for Christmas and play golf while the ladies deal with the
children…And their father tells you that his child is the
cutest grandchildren and he has the greatest artistic eye and the
best taste. And this is WHY he is allowed to get away with this and
she should just shut up and agree…

BUT NOW I KNOW… AND I DON’T HAVE TO BE A PRETZEL OR A
DONUT…
On Dec 3, 2007, at 12:42 PM, smg wrote: