Why does he want someone with a moral compass?

Narcissistic personality disorder
#1

Sociopaths do not feel empathy. As Dr. Liane Leedom and other experts have written, they also do not feel fear. Empathy and fear are the basic components of remorse and guilt, so sociopaths don’t feel those emotions, either.

What does all this mean? Sociopaths do not really care about people. They do not feel obliged to comply with society’s rules. They cannot be trusted to “do the right thing”. They have no morals.

That, in all its emptiness, is the true nature of a sociopath.

– LoveFraud Blog

That sounds just like my ex…so then why in his dating profile does he say he wants a woman with a moral compass? Why dont these guys become attracted and attached to women like themselves who have no conscience and feel no guilt or remorse?

Why was I chosen when I’m morally opposite to his criminal mind?

Why on earth did Clyde pick me instead of Bonnie ??

#2

NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and AsPD (Antisocial Personality
Disorder)

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders16.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders15.html

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq45.html

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq57.html

http://open-site.org/Health/Conditions_and_Diseases/Psychiatric_Disorders/Personality/Antisocial/

Narcissism on Crime TV

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/gerald_stano/4.html?sect=2

Crime and Terrorism

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/serialkillers.html (PopMatters.com)

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/12.html (The Idler)

Corporate Narcissism

http://www.suite101.com/bulletin.cfm/6514/10621 (New York Times)

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/corporatenarcissism.html (United Press
International - Part I, Part II)

http://www.nypress.com/16/7/news&columns/feature.cfm (New York Press)

Listen to “Psychopaths in Suits” on Australia’s ABC Radio

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/mod/bbing_18072004_2856.ram

Or read the transcript here:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s1158704.htm

Abusive Relationships

http://www.suite101.com/topic_page.cfm/6514/2051

http://www.suite101.com/bulletin.cfm/18046/12847

Mirror, Mirror … (Toronto Sun)

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Lifestyle/2004/08/30/608650.html

Thank you again. Have a safe, warm, and productive weekend.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6882@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:58 PM
Subject: [npd] why does he want someone with a moral compass?

#3

That sounds just like my ex…so then why in his dating profile does he say he wants a woman with a moral compass? WHy dont these guys become attrcated and attached to women like themselves who have no conscience and feel no guilt or remorse?

Why was I chosen when I’m morally opposite to his criminal mind? Why on earth did Clyde pick me instead of Bonnie ???

I don’t think empathy and fear are components of remorse and guilt. And NPD is not equivalent to APD which is the true psychopath. My N had high morals - only in manic state did he break his morals. He wasn’t able to be empathetic towards me so he didn’t feel guilty when he hurt my feelings, but he still felt guilty when he violated one of his ethics and actually rarely did. And he felt fear but not to the degree I do, but he was male, Navy trained to take care of himself if necessary and most certainly could.

Some people do not have a lot of morals that they should, not engrained in upbringing, and thus, while capable of feeling guilty, they don’t feel guilty when they commit an act that the rest of us considers immoral.

Your ex is probably looking for someone to guide or restrain him morally because he lacks the internal restraints to do so himself. The problem with Bonnie and Clyde teaming together is that they bought the worse out in each other, as opposed to having partners that temper such aspects rather than saying wow, yea lets go do it. You see this in children more - two kids that are a bad mix who would be good otherwise, get together and are nightmares on wheels.

#4

That makes sense given how his ideas of right and wrong have become more reverted since we broke up than when we were together.

#5

My exes morals and idea of right and wrong tended to morph depending on the relationship she was in. She was very clingy and didn’t want to be left alone and often punished me if I ever had to leave. I think she needed me around to keep her stable and knew she’d get in trouble if I wasn’t around. I always found it odd that my ex could be so nasty at times, but she seemed to have some certain morals that she stuck to.

#6

MY ex felt he was above morals, above religion, above the law…that those things were only necessary for all the other poor sods who werent as smart as him and needed guidance in order to keep them safe.

Plus…there was a whole bunch of GLEE, of giddy pleasure in doing bad things, in getting away with things behind people’s backs, or the law…even if it hurt people.

…even if it hurt me…

#7

MY ex felt he was above morals, above religion, above the law…that
those things were only necessary for all the other poor sods who
werent as smart as him and needed guidance in order to keep them safe.
On Nov 24, 2007, at 7:28 AM, thephoenix101 wrote:

Phoenix: I could have written this in regards to my dad and
bro…Every word. But can you imagine
growing up this way? My mother sent me to quaker school to balance
the lack of morality going around at home.
To this day, they are stunned that I care about traditional values.
I am not very religious, but I feel sometimes that
it would have been comforting to know that maybe something else out
there would have taken care of me. I always felt like I was in the
middle of the the Indy 500 waiting to get run over. But now I am
strong enough
to knock them down. I also had to tap dance and serve them while
they were running me over. BUT NOW
I KNOW…BUT NOW I KNOW…IT IS GOOD TO HAVE
KNOWLEDGE…ISN’T IT?

#8

Question:

Do narcissists feel guilty and if so, do they ever repent?

Answer:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq57.html

Question:

Am I to blame for my husband’s/child’s/parent’s mental state and behaviour?
Is there anything that I can or should do to help him or to reach him?

Answer:

Self-flagellation is a characteristic of those who choose to live with a
narcissist (for a choice it is). Constant feelings of guilt, self-reproach,
self-recrimination and, thus, self-punishment characterize the relationships
formed between the sadist-narcissist and the masochistic-dependent mate or
partner.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq21.html

Abusers regularly deny the abuse ever took place - or rationalize their
abusive behaviors. Denial is an integral part of the abuser’s ability to
"look at himself/herself in the mirror".

There are many types of denial. When confronted by his victims, most abusers
tend to shift blame or avoid the topic altogether.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/abuse14.html

The dissolution of the abuser’s marriage or other meaningful (romantic,
business, or other) relationships constitutes a major life crisis and a
scathing narcissistic injury. To soothe and salve the pain of
disillusionment, he administers to his aching soul a mixture of lies,
distortions, half-truths and outlandish interpretations of events around
him.

All abusers present with rigid and infantile (primitive) defense mechanisms:
splitting, projection, Projective Identification, denial,
intellectualization, and narcissism. But some abusers go further and
decompensate by resorting to self-delusion. Unable to face the dismal
failures that they are, they partially withdraws from reality.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/abuse14.html

Question:

Doesn’t the narcissist ever feel sorry for his “victims”?

Answer:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq14.html

Question:

Should the narcissist be held accountable for his actions?

Answer:

Narcissists of all shades can usually control their behaviour and actions.
They simply don’t care to, they regard it as a waste of their precious time,
or a humiliating chore. The narcissist feels both superior and entitled -
regardless of his real gifts or achievements. Other people are inferior, his
slaves, there to cater to his needs and make his existence seamless, flowing
and smooth.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq71.html

Question:

The narcissist is not entirely responsible for his actions. Should we judge
him, get angry at him, be upset by him? Above all, should we communicate to
him our displeasure?

Answer:

The narcissist knows to tell right from wrong. He is perfectly capable of
anticipating the results of his actions and their influence on his human
environment. The narcissist is very perceptive and sensitive to the subtlest
nuances. He has to be: the very integrity of his personality depends upon
input from others.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq13.html

Narcissists are not prone to “irresistible impulses” and dissociation
(blanking out certain stressful events and actions). They more or less fully
control their behavior and acts at all times. But exerting control over
one’s conduct requires the investment of resources, both mental and
physical. Narcissists regard this as a waste of their precious time, or a
humiliating chore. Lacking empathy, they don’t care about other people’s
feelings, needs, priorities, wishes, preferences, and boundaries. As a
result, narcissists are awkward, tactless, painful, taciturn, abrasive and
insensitive.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders49.html

Question:

How does the narcissist react when he fails to obtain enough Narcissistic
Supply?

Answer:

Very much as a drug addict would react to the absence of his particular
drug.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq28.html

The narcissist then resorts to self-delusion. Unable to completely ignore
contrarian opinion and data - he transmutes them. Unable to face the dismal
failure that he is, the narcissist partially withdraws from reality. To
soothe and salve the pain of disillusionment, he administers to his aching
soul a mixture of lies, distortions, half-truths and outlandish
interpretations of events around him. These solutions can be classified
thus:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/journal42.html

Paranoid ideation - the narcissist’s deep-rooted conviction that he is being
persecuted by his inferiors, detractors, or powerful ill-wishers - serves
two psychodynamic purposes. It upholds the narcissist’s grandiosity and it
fends off intimacy.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/journal60.html

Narcissistic Supply is exciting. When it is available, the narcissist feels
elated, omnipotent, omniscient, handsome, sexy, adventurous, invincible, and
irresistible. When it is missing, the narcissist first enters a manic phase
of trying to replenish his supply and, if he fails, the narcissist shrivels,
withdraws and is reduced to a zombie-like state of numbness.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/adrenalinejunkie.html

In general, there is a strong compulsive strand in the narcissist’s
behaviour. He is driven to exorcise internal demons by means of ritualistic
acts. The narcissist’s very pursuit of Narcissistic Supply is compulsive.
The narcissist seeks to recreate and reenact old traumas, ancient,
unresolved conflicts with figures of (primary) importance in his life.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq30.html

Unpredictability

The narcissist acts unpredictably, capriciously, inconsistently and
irrationally. This serves to demolish in others their carefully crafted
worldview. They become dependent upon the next twist and turn of the
narcissist, his inexplicable whims, his outbursts, denial, or smiles.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq6.html
----- Original Message -----
From: “wastedyouth” npd-cpt6882@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] why does he want someone with a moral compass?

#9

The partner is, thus, placing herself in the position of the eternal victim:
undeserving, punishable, a scapegoat. Sometimes, it is very important to the
partner to appear moral, sacrificial and victimised. At other times, she is
not even aware of this predicament. The narcissist is perceived by the
partner to be a person in the position to demand these sacrifices from her
because he is superior in many ways (intellectually, emotionally, morally,
professionally, or financially).

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq6.html

By being permanently on trial, the narcissist claims high moral ground and
the position of the martyr: misunderstood, discriminated against, unjustly
roughed, outcast by his very towering genius or other outstanding qualities.
To conform to the cultural stereotype of the “tormented artist” - the
narcissist provokes his own suffering. He is thus validated.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissistmasochist.html

The narcissist has no criminal intent (“mens rea”), though he may commit
criminal acts (“acti rei”). He does not victimise, plunder, terrorise and
abuse others in a cold, calculating manner. He does so offhandedly, as a
manifestation of his genuine character. To be morally repugnant, one needs
to be purposeful, to deliberate and contemplate the options and then to
prefer evil to good, wrong over right. No ethical or moral judgement is
possible without an act of choice.

The narcissist’s perception of his life and his existence is discontinuous.
The narcissist is a walking compilation of “personalities”, each with its
own personal history. The narcissist does not feel that he is, in any way,
related to his former “selves”. He, therefore, does not understand why he
has to be punished for “someone else’s” actions or inaction.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq57.html

Moreover, the paranoid lives in constant fear and tribulation. This (plus
the deficient structure of the narcissistic personality) allow the partner
to assume a position of superiority, elevated moral ground and sound mental
health. The partner feels justified in regarding the narcissist in inferior
terms: a child, a monster, an invalid, or a misfit.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq26to27.html

The narcissist is entitled to “special treatment”: high living standards,
constant and immediate catering to his ever shifting needs, the avoidance of
the mundane and the routine, an absolution of his sins, fast track
privileges (to higher education, or in his encounters with the bureaucracy).
Punishment is for ordinary people (where no great loss to humanity is
involved). Narcissists feel that they are above the law.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq45.html

Pathological narcissism is often co-morbid with mood disorders, compulsive
rituals, substance abuse, paraphilias, or reckless behaviour patterns. Many
narcissists are also anti-social. Lacking empathy and convinced of their own
magnificence, they feel that they are above social conventions and the Law.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissismissues.html

In extreme cases, the narcissist feels above the law - any kind of law. This
grandiose and haughty conviction leads to criminal acts, incestuous or
polygamous relationships, and recurrent friction with the authorities.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal79.html

Both adult narcissists and young children are envious of others and
sometimes seek to hurt or destroy the causes of their frustration. Both
groups behave arrogantly and haughtily, feel superior, omnipotent,
omniscient, invincible, immune, “above the law”, and omnipresent (magical
thinking), and rage when frustrated, contradicted, challenged, or
confronted.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissistinfantile.html
----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6882@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] why does he want someone with a moral compass?

#10

The narcissist has no criminal intent ("mens rea"), though he may commit criminal acts ("acti rei"). He does not victimise, plunder, terrorise and abuse others in a cold, calculating manner. He does so offhandedly, as a manifestation of his genuine character. To be morally repugnant, one needs to be purposeful, to deliberate and contemplate the options and then to prefer evil to good, wrong over right. No ethical or moral judgement is possible without an act of choice.

I find these two things hard to resolve. N has no criminal intent, its just his character? But it was in my ex's intent to calculate and terrorize. He did contemplate his options and prefered evil over good because doing so and getting away with it meant he "taught people a lesson", he inflicted on them ten fold the injury they inflicted on him, and he was giddy seeing them in pain and drunk with power when he was always too smart to get caught.

That IS his character. My morality was considered weak and stupid and dependent on "parental authority" like a child.

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Both adult narcissists and young children are envious of others and sometimes seek to hurt or destroy the causes of their frustration. Both groups behave arrogantly and haughtily, feel superior, omnipotent, omniscient, invincible, immune, "above the law", and omnipresent (magical thinking), and rage when frustrated, contradicted, challenged, or confronted.

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right...doesnt that require calculated choices? what does that mean that he consistently makes the calculated choice of a partner with a "moral compass"?

#11

Tigers eat people. That does not make them EVIL.

Narcissists hurt people. That doesn’t make them evil.

It is not a CHOICE. It is WHO the narcissist is.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6882@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] why does he want someone with a moral compass?

#12

The narcissist has no criminal intent (“mens rea”), though he may
commit criminal acts (“acti rei”). He does not victimise, plunder,
terrorise and abuse others in a cold, calculating manner. He does
so offhandedly, as a manifestation of his genuine character. To be
morally repugnant, one needs to be purposeful, to deliberate and
contemplate the options and then to prefer evil to good,
wrong over right. No ethical or moral judgement is possible without
an act of choice.

I find these two things hard to resolve. N has no criminal intent,
its just his character? But it was in my ex’s intent to calculate
and terrorize. He did contemplate his options and prefered evil
over good because doing so and getting away with it meant he
"taught people a lesson", he inflicted on them ten fold the injury
they inflicted on him, and he was giddy seeing them in pain and
drunk with power when he was always too smart to get caught.

That is why the eagle was SO important to me Phoenix. It was REAL
EVIDENCE that my family was following
the cult of narcissism. I had NEVER HAD TANGIBLE evidence and it
DROVE ME CRAZY. I do believe that my mother ( who has been dead
since 97’) organized this chain of events to protect me in my future
dealings iwth them. I would have been run over with an army truck if
this had not happened.

There is NO WAY I would be able to get away with selling an
antique of my summer home for $50,000 and say that it was for my
unborn child’s private education. NO WAY my brother’s would have put
up with that! I would not have had the GUTS to get away with it.
But MY WHOLE family walked around like Jim Jones disciples following
my N brother’s LIES and putting me in prison for not following HIS
RULES, no matter HOW FUCKED UP THEY WERE. But it IS A CULT. I am
NOT A PART OF THE CULT. And they are STUNNED that I stood up for myself.
On Nov 24, 2007, at 11:44 AM, thephoenix101 wrote:

#13

Sam,
I feel like we’re having 2 different conversations. I had asked, why does he make it known that he wants a partner with a moral compass when he in a calculated way, chooses to hurt people and sadistically enjoy it? circumvent the law? emulate other criminals?

I dont want to know about the criminal intent. I dont care about the label evil. I’m asking why he wants a partner who has a moral compass? why wouldnt he choose someone like himself who wouldnt give him a hard time for the choices he wants to make?

(sigh)

am I missing something here? is there a reason I dont know about yet, that you are answering a whole bunch of other issues than the one I’m asking about?

#14

Interesting Sam. So when you have recovered, you have built your
cage, so when the tiger pounces,
they can’t scratch you and make you bleed and you don’t feel guilty
and to blame when they want to pounce. It is inate. I SO GET IT
NOW!! I AM AS CURED AS CURED CAN BE. IT took me 8 MONTHS!!!

On Nov 24, 2007, at 11:59 AM, samvaknin wrote:

#15

Right, bup!

NO CONTACT. Get away from them. Don’t try to tame the tiger. Run for your
life!

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “bup” npd-cpt6882@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] why does he want someone with a moral compass?

#16

“why he wants a partner who has a moral compass”

Sam:

I don’t know why any given person does what he does and makes specific
choices. Not knowing the person in question, how could I respond to your
question meaningfully and intelligently?

GENERALLY, THOUGH:

Narcissists wouldn’t choose partners who remind them all the time of their
moral and ethical shortcomings:

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq73.html

Psychopaths wouldn’t care one way or the other.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6882@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] why does he want someone with a moral compass?

#17

well that just makes things all the muddier for me then

he shouldnt be a N because he is calculating and actually wants to be inmvolved in calculated criminal activity

and he shouldnt be a N because he hates criticism but he lacks morality but wants a moral partner who would criticize his choices

and he shouldnt be a psychopath because they dont care, but my ex did care with me, and cares enough now to make it one of his criteria for his new partner

so I’m confused now
what he is
or why he’d choose me or someone like me

#18

You can’t isolate one or two traits and “diagnose” your partner. Narcissism
and psychopathy are COMPOUNDED conditions with many interacting traits,
behaviors, cognitions, and emotions.

Plus, you need to disambiguate words.

I care for my computer very much because I own it and am attached to it and
it is my lifeline. Is this the way he “cares” about you? Are you his
personal property or extension?

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6882@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] why does he want someone with a moral compass?

#19

Sam, I'm only going by your words.

I recognize your words are given in simple short sentences but they are often written as absolutes. Even in this thread. Taken as absolutes, they dont any of them fit, N or P to my ex.

I am completely aware that each one of us is complex and not easily pigeonholed. How then do you reconcile the knowledge of that with the statements you post that are absolute?

Narcissists wouldn't choose partners who remind them all the time of their moral and ethical shortcomings:Psychopaths wouldn't care one way or the other. (just as 2 examples)

I'm trying to figure out why I was chosen, and why someone like me is being chosen next for someone whose life is made more complex and uncomfortable by the very trait he is looking for.

 

 

#20

(ugh)

never mind, this isnt going anywhere and I’m only getting frustrated which is not what I want.

Lets just close this topic, shall we?