Why is everything about Sam?

It seems that most of the recent topics are all about SAM and i just really don’t get it. It seems to me that this should be a place to put OUR feelings, not a place to argue with and N who will never get it. He is certainly getting his share of supply from all of us, who know only too well how to give it.

I think we should all STOP responding to him and just read his links, some of which are very illuminating. There is no reason for us to try to reason with him or get upset with him. After all, who is he to us? I, personally don’t have energy to waste on another N, do you?

Mamolie, DON’T GO! You are a voice of reason and you always ground us and provide us with no-nonsense advice. We need you here and i, for one, would feel very badly if you left. You have offered me lots of help and support and I hope that you will reconsider. You are needed here, not for supply, but because you are YOU.

ageed, if we all ignore him, he will not get his NS from us and will have to go elsewhere.

I take back what I just said after reading other posts…

I think we should respond when it is noteworthy and when it is not… don’t. :slight_smile: And just block out and do not let sv pollute your thoughts… brush it off and like DD said, it is good practice! :slight_smile:

I think what I saw here was people reacting to Sam in a normal, healthy way for the first time in years, instead of as if he were some kind of sacred little princeling with special rights to be obnoxious at will and SPAM people to his hearts content with self promotion of what is, at best, distorted misinformation, and at worst, malicious mischief.

That is a healthy sign, because until you can react to someone like Sam in a normal, healthy way you are still leaving yourself open to other abusers just like him, not only on the internet but off it.

Sam has no more right to promote his agenda here than those people who keep emailing you about viagra, cialis, cheap pharmecuticals and stock tips, and should be treated the same way when he does it (it is not like it is exactly HARD to find Samvak links if you REALLY must have them, he has been SPAMMING them everywhere for years).

Equally, he has no more right to personally abuse and insult other posters than anyone else has and he should be treated the same way for that too. Which has been happening.

I stepped in because his abuse was becoming cruel and cunning, and because, when I step in, he will go away…and then it will NEVER be “all about Sam” much less “all about giving Sam special privileges and treatment” EVER again…

You can save the special privileges and treatment for people who deserve them, like each other, instead.

:o)

GD

Yeah, don’t go, everyone!

I am left without playmates …:o((

(pouting)

Seriously, guys, a little adversity and you are gone???

Life is about adversity. Show your resilience! Toughen up, you lot!

Sam

PS:

You wrote:

“just read his links, some of which are very illuminating.”

Sam:

Thank you for your kind words!

Take care there!

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “Lucia” npd-cpt6448@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:45 AM
Subject: [npd] Why???

Sorry, Hope Today. I am not here for your attention. Not one of you is
important or famous or rich or powerful or particularly intelligent - so why
would I value anything coming from you? I am here to LEARN from you, not to
derive narcissistic supply from you. You are too insignificant for that.

Learn more by clicking on these links:

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq76.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal67.html

Sam

More new insight for Sam:

a)You are not a Drill Sargeant, you are a bog standard, purveyor of overpriced snake oil.
b)This is a support forum, not the Marine corps
c)Nobody has to “toughen up” so you can have “playmates”.

GD

I had to laugh, that sense of humour again…none of us are intelligent enough.

I dont usually do this because its not important to me to toot my own horn but here we go …

I have 2 university degrees, from real universities where I lived on campus, attended classes in lecture halls and studios over a period of years in 3 different cities. One of them is from the most prestigious and difficult schools to attend, and my roommate was from a powerful diplomat family.

I also have graduated from a Therapist Training Institute which required 3 years of my life, 50 hours of therapy in real time with a living breathing therapist, 100’s of hours in process groups, rigorous and involved testing and supervision with volunteer clients…

and I practice what I’ve learned over all those years,
every single work day
with the real live at-risk teens.

None of my diplomas were “bought”, all of them were earned with blood, sweat and tears, and guess what? I dont have any of them framed and hanging anywhere to impress. I also am not pompous enough to put any initials behind my name. I think its the down and dirty, in the trenches work I do with teens that keeps me humble enough to not be impressed by what degress I have, or you bought…but by what I DO, and what the people who work next to me and care about kids DO.

It matters very little what one says…seriously…Plato was fucking brilliant, but he doesnt put food on people’s tables or convince kids to get into detox or rehab…

it matters what people DO.

It matters what YOU do.

I saw an interview with Bono recently. I really have always liked U2’s music but I wouldnt have considered them heros. Bono said that after having made more money than any man could spend in a lifetime, and having felt and seen the adoration of so many people for his creative work, he asked himself what life was for. And the answer he came up with? It had nothing to do with money or fame. It had to do with reading Dalai Lama, Mother Theresa…it had to do with “becoming the best man he could be”. And that meant doing everything he could to make this world better, it meant getting involved to make a positive change, it meant really listening to people, touching them with his hands, making contact with his eyes, letting them know he 'sees" them…the opposite of narcissism.

Which blows me away. Only because you’d think someone who is filthy rich and adored by thousands would need to maintain that to keep from feeling a sense of loss of self. But its the opposite for him.

Its what a man DOES, what he BUILDS, how he uses his physical or intellectual or spiritual strength to help people, the people he loves, his neighbours, his community…its how he demonstrates his worth through ACTION that makes a man.

Its never measured by how small he can make people who are suffering feel.

…it never is that…

I invite you to impress us with action that makes this world a little bit better, and give up this other…immature, wasteful stuff.

Its time.

Note to Sam:

WOW!!

I have been chatting with Phoenix over the past couple of days, and NOT ONCE did she even hint at all that impressive stuff, or try to find out what I’d got to see if hers was better, or bigger, than mine…

To the contrary, she is respectful and defers to me very slightly as an older woman…

That’s a far cry from strutting around waving a dubious degree mill PHD in the “Philosophy of Physics” and demanding to be deferred to as a genius and expert in Psychology.

FYI, Phoenix’ behavior and respect for others is typical of the good people who have really “got it”. Your behavior, however, is typical of the puffed up little failures who are really FULL of it.

GD

I strongly suspect there are mANY intelligent people on this forum.

I can see there are many who are thoughtful…and damn funny :slight_smile:

thank gawd for that (whew)

I am so pleased that Blixen and Phoenix have stepped in to share on this forum and put a new direction to the postings. You both are obviously quite intelligent, Sam does not hold a candle to either of you.

I hope you will offer more. It concerns me still that some realise Sam is not the most likeable character but they still are under the influence of his writings. Geez, why do some not see that they are both, one and the same. I know things but I cannot articulate them the way you both can. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. Possibly Sam is expressing who he is. But he is not explaining the problem and he certainly is not leading anyone to healthy solutions or personal growth. Rather, he is drawing people into a web of victimization, lies, distortions or truth, a very unhealthy perspective for dealing with other people and experiences in your life. He actually is leading people to follow their own narcissistic traits - me me me. No humanity for others. Please help me here.

Susie,

I don't know about you lacking the ability to articulate things, because you have just managed to say, in a paragraph, some things I have made a mess of trying to communicate for years!

It concerns me still that some realise Sam is not the most likeable character but they still are under the influence of his writings. Geez, why do some not see that they are both, one and the same.

I mean I get the point some people make that what counts is the song, not the singer, and in many cases that applies.

Tchaikovsky, one of my favorite composers, was a sadistic psychopath, of the nastiest kind, but his music is still beautiful. If they discover a cure for cancer, the fact that the head of the research team that discovered it beats his wife would be, rightly, irrelevant, to whether the FDA approve it...

But Sam's agenda isn't art. and it isn't hard science, it is subtle, manipulative abuse. Now HOW ON EARTH can you trust someone without integrity, without scruples, and even without any real emotions, to define that for you?

Even if (by some miracle) Sam was trying to behave himself, he doesn't know the first thing about emotion, or pain (except from the manufacturers point of view). He doesn't have the first idea of how normal, loving people work, so how could hed define abuse and the abuser for you if he wanted to?

And when do you last see Sam Vaknin behave himself for 5 straight minutes anyway?

He is consistantly like a spoilt, malevolent baby.

GD

 

I second what susiejo said and a huge thank you!!! HOW NICE it is AND NOW I FEEL LIKE … I am getting some really good insight that we have not had on this site and this is exactly what I wanted when I started this group! I feel like a weight is slowly being lifted from me as I read becasue I am starting to understand just a tiny bit more… I see only my side and that is why I have been trying so hard to get others to share!

"I am so pleased that Blixen and Phoenix have stepped in to share on this forum and put a new direction to the postings. You both are obviously quite intelligent, Sam does not hold a candle to either of you. "

Oh thank you SO much…

It is SO great for me to come across so many smart stimulating people here too.

:o)

GD

OMG Phoenix, Tchaikovsky expressed such emotion in his music - I always have loved his music - such positive beautiful emotions. Paino Concerto in A Minor is about love. But I have never read of him. How so interesting. Are you suggesting that we all have value? Even a narcissist could? Some give to the world in their ways but are not so good on a personal level. Such was mine.

So the guy who finds a cure for cancer beats his wife? Where in the world have you come from? Mine did a magic bullet for cancer - and he beat me. FDA? Drug companies? Oh the stories I could tell. We live in world of delusion thinking we know something about life. We know so little. What I have packed within side me!!! There are books on his work - they shit and shelved it. Oh some made a lot of money. I swear to God. This country has lost it. He had such incredible good within him, he did such incredible good for others and mankind, but he was horrible on an intimate personal level. His kids hate his guts. I love him and I hate him. How does he get judged by God? For being a bad husband and father or for making major contributions to the betterment of mankind? How will I be judged?

Yes Sam is trying to make a living selling a book, most likely because no one will employ him. The internet is full of them. He is super silly and where he leads people is not good at all. And thank you so much for stepping in as you have.

And yes, to so many on the board, you have troubles dealing with yours because they have great qualities while at the same time, have something wrong in dealing on an intimate level. That does not mean they are psychopaths or bad people, maybe they are but maybe they are not.

The answer is not Sam Varkin and playing persecuted, abused victim. Seek objectivity with that person if you truly care about them. Seek the answer and you shall find. But do not judge to evil based on Sam.

Oh boy, I’m going to apologize up front for not jumping on this bandwagon.

I hope you’ll try and see where I am coming from.

Sam’s book helped me. I didnt swallow it whole and I took flack for that from the forum I was on. It was too over the top for me to take hook line and sinker.

But what I needed to get done in my own life first, was to have confusion cleared, to have years of insanity taken apart and have all the square pegs finally go into all the square holes. That he used labels and terms that didnt quite sit right with me didnt matter. It still doesnt matter.

What mattered was getting a glimpse into the mind of a person, I suppose, is much like my ex, except my ex hides it so much more adeptly. He charms people he wants to collect, and annihilates those he finds have offended him in anyway.

Once I got a glimpse into the thought processes, I was able to do what really was the hard work, make the breakup happen and hold on tight through the agony of recovery.

That I still think of my ex as a human being, and not a 2-dimensional monster is precisely because I havent swallowed Sam’s book whole. That I know my ex’s treatment of me was unnaceptable and he will never get another chance to speak to me let alone be with me is something I wouldnt have considered if it werent initially for Sam’s book.

So while his behaviour as a forum member is less than honourable or dignified, or lets face it very smart (I think he is working hard at unravelling his own success) I am not shy about appreciating what he did offer that was of use, and rejecting the rest.

If other smart men and women do the same, it wont bother me.

Susiejo, I have been fighting the devil to get back to you on this one, cos what I said there was just PLAIN SPOOKY...

If I ever managed to do it again I think I'll go on stage as "Gypsy Rose Blitzen".

You do realise you could have modified the scumbag's trouser mouse, with blunt, but sterile, garden shears without, in any way, obstructing his ability as a researcher? You might even have enhanced it...less distractions...

 I have a theory about Tchaikovsky...psychopaths are uncannily skilled at manipulating emotions, he just applied it to his musical talent...

 

Can't find a concerto in A minor though...not for the life of me, are you sure it wasn't something else... BECAUSE I wanted to listen to it, and my sound card crashed, and this is 4:18am and how long it took to get up and running again.

Phoenix...

There is no diplomatic way to put this, so I'll just say it straight out. Let me remind you what Susie said: It concerns me still that some realise Sam is not the most likeable character but they still are under the influence of his writings. Geez, why do some not see that they are both, one and the same.

You do not SERIOUSLY think Sam, or anyone like him, will ever give you a REAL honest "glimpse into his mind".

All that he gives in ANYTHING he writes (except the economics, which are ok, but VERY right wing) is whatever ould b*l*x seems fun to him on the day...

That's just the way it really is, I am so sorry...

Moments like this are the reason why I wish he would walk under a bus at his earliest convenience.

The little CREEP...

GD

 

 

Miss Blitzen,

I actually find that easy to accept. I just have to imagine my ex writing the same book. The odds that he would be able to look at himself with that much awareness, with zero bullshit doesnt seem very likely to me.

I wonder if I can word it differently then so this makes sense even if I DO hold the possibility it wasnt an honest glimpse into SV’s own mind.

It was a glimpse into something that rang too familiar to ignore.

I suspect thats why so many respectable people read the book and find something powerful and of use there. I didnt buy the book, it was given to me by a close friend, to whom it was given by a respected therapist.

I think it was Hopetoday who posted a quote from a Dr Phil episode, judge men by what they do, not by what they say. Theres a lot of power and familiarity in that for me too.

My ex said all the things I wanted to hear…for years. He did extremely little that I expected given what he told me, in fact he did much that was selfish, hurtful and sadistic. His actions and choices never fit what he conned me into believing. So those were the square pegs. What Sam wrote seemed like the inner voice that went along with the actions I was having to endure. HEARING WHAT I ALWAYS SUSPECTED was going on in my ex’s head made it clear, there was no hope, there was no empathy, there was no respect…there was no other option for me except to get out.

And thats all that matters.

So I held my breath, put the wheels into motion, and watched him walk away from me because thats what I knew I needed to survive.

You know what? Maybe its a work of fiction…hell, that even makes so much sense I just about believe it.

… it still has the same impact and value on little ole me.

Phoenix,

The book is, in reality:

100% bullshit0 Awareness

So basically, from your point of view, it is just the same as if your ex got to BS you an whole new way, all over again.

There is nothing useful, or productive about being bs'ed ALL OVER AGAIN by a third party. It just creates an whole new world of damage to recover from ALL OVER AGAIN.

Do you not see the connection here:

My ex said all the things I wanted to hear...for years

and

What Sam wrote seemed like the inner voice that went along with the actions I was having to endure. HEARING WHAT I ALWAYS SUSPECTED was going on in my ex's head

You are just determined upon hearing what you want to hear, ALL OVER AGAIN, in a whole new way.

Until you change that and learn how to listen to reality instead, you will go on being a sitting target for any conman who comes your way.

Because you haven't got it through your head that what is important is not whether you want to hear something, what is important is whether it is true.

Until you recognise that you are literally "setting yourself up" to be "had", over, and over, again.

Incidentally "so many respectable people" do not read Sam...most people have never heard of him, and of those that have, most have the common sense not to read (let alone buy) badly written, self indulgent books on pseudopsychology written by unqualified "financial consultants" with criminal records and pretensions.

I actually find the book a very useful litmus test for distinguishing between worthwhile professionals and exploitative, or dysfunctional, phonies on the internet.

If they refer to Sam, or in any way promote Sam, they are exploitative, or dysfunctional, phonies...and that has been proved right over, and over, again with no exceptions.

GD

 

Blitzen,

I dont know what to say to you at this point. I hear your conviction and your concern and I thank you for those.

I can only tell you my culpability in my own misery is that I chose what I hoped for, not what I felt in my gut was always really happening.

What I believe now is what feels right in my gut.

The guy filled years with using me, deceiving me, rejecting me, using me, hurting me, humiliating me, screwing my head into a pretzel all the while telling me I was the love of his life, we’d get married, buy a house on a vineyard, have a baby together blah blah blah…lies…all lies…and he hurt me in one way I cant even tell you online.

I dont know what truth you’d like me to understand about what went on.

I dont really know how to sift the truth from years worth of lies, confusion and crazy making behaviour.

All I really have…is me, what I felt, what I said, what I did…that I can know was true…and that he knew was true.

I got ripped off. I was never dealing with truth in him…ever. I got conned.

so what now?

I dont care about Sam’s book. I dont promote it. I used it for what it was worth.

I reject the rest of it and everything else he’s written since then.

I’m not sure what it is you need me to believe that I’m not already.

Sam and his book arent important to me. My ex isnt even important to me. What he does and thinks is of no value to me whatsoever. What he DID TO ME I’m still furious about and recovering from.

Thats all I care about right now.

what am I not getting that would satisfy you>?