An Oprah writer wants your N stories!

Narcissistic personality disorder
#61

"I have no idea what that means, but a runaway train certainly seemed to get derailed at some point, it was hard to understand a number of nonsensical things last night." ~Phoenix

Are you serious? Are ya tellin' me there were a number of nonsensical things going on last night? Surely you jest! ;-)

Seriously though, when people open themselves to being vulnerable on CarePlace and get "slammed, bammed and no thank you m'ammed", isn't it a little bit crazymaking?? 

I've been talking to people for years now and when there is NO reciprocal good will and trust, when suspicion reigns supreme, when honest concerns are interpreted as manipulation, when the discussion reduces to personal attacks---welp...there's just no sense to be made of the nonsense. It's time for a little jabberwocky.

"Twas brillig, and the slithy toves

did gyre and gimble in the wabe:

All mimsy were the borogoves,

And the mome raths outgrabe.

 

 Beware the Jabberwock, my son!

The Jaws that bite, the claws that catch!

 Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun

The fumious Bandersnatch!" 

 

Hugs and smiles,

CZBZ 

 

 

#62

CZBZ,

People may not trust you just because they see you constantly changing sides and your story, twisting other peoples words and trying to discredit anyone you can’t control.

On the whole it is generally considered healthy to confine one’s trusting to people with a lot more demonstrable integrity than that. (Claiming to have integrity is a vastly different thing to actually having it)

GD

#63

I’ve known CZBZ for almost 5 years (Yes, it HAS been that long), and I highly respect her, trust her as much as I trust anybody online, and her actions and her words are the same.

And no, we are not sockpuppets together.

(laughing)

wahela

#64

Incidentally,

Before any of us embarass ourselves ANY further…we DO all know that a freelancer (who usually writes about dogs) trying to write an article to pitch a “O” Magazine is NOT the same things as “being on Oprah”?

Just thought it was time someone pointed that out…

GD

#65

I really do enjoy giving credit and praise where theyre due, and I’ve done that publicly but also privately to a good number of folk on here already.

Its pretty clear who here shows consistent integrity, good will, support, open mindedness and care.

And the converse is true, its clear who floods the place with malevolent energy and whose mode of communication undermines whatever will it may be.

I’ll say one thing though, the further through recovery I get, the more I return to mySELF (or maybe a better version than the old me) but the road to recovery is RIDDLED with violent shifts and tides of emotions and thoughts. Thats reasonable given what we’ve been through.

I accept people will be calm and intellectual one day, raging, crying or hopeless the next.

I also have noticed those tides become gentler and shorter and less violent as recovery time goes on.

I’m glad to be in the company of empathic members.

#66

"People may not trust you just because they see you constantly changing sides and your story, twisting other peoples words and trying to discredit anyone you can't control. On the whole it is generally considered healthy to confine one's trusting to people with a lot more demonstrable integrity than that. (Claiming to have integrity is a vastly different thing to actually having it) " ~Blitzen

Now this comment might seem a little weird but I am beginning to wonder if Blitzen and Femfree are one and the same. I've been told the very same thing before. ;-)

I'll admit that comments like this made me cry a couple of years ago and wonder how on earth people could call me a liar...Then, I got used to the fact that there are honest and good-hearted people on the Web. And there are those who project.

I don't mess with threads like this for the most part. I certainly don't roam around the Web looking for places to dump my garbage. The only reason I started posting on CarePlace was to try and help people get a message board up and running.

I believe in the message board process with all my heart. The hurdle we have to leap while using a new technology to assist our healing, is being able to trust people with the intimacies of our lives. I'm not sure how to break through this barrier since anonymity enhances self-disclosure while at the same time, offers a perfect stalking ground for malicious bullies.

I can tell you, Blitzen, that anyone who knows me in person laughs at the idea I'm a control-freak. Do I struggle knowing where to draw the line?? Yes! Do I struggle with maintaining a safe environment without censoring, banning and deleting? Yes! Do I try to see someone's situation from their perspective whether I personally agree with them or not? Yes! Controlling others is not my style nor my objective. Helping them figure out how to control themselves is more to the point.

I have come to understand and appreciate people who draw the line at nonsense and delete without self-doubt.

In the end, allowing one person the freedom to express herself without restraint or compassion for her impact on others, restricts the freedom of the group to express themselves. Everyone has the right to a safe environment during healing. Everyone. 

CZBZ

 

#67

I will be nicer to her because she is powerful and rich.

You are a nobody with a nobody’s story to tell. You are a non-entity.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “wahela” npd-cpt6626@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] An Oprah writer wants your N stories!

#68

wow, I just got a sliver of something about existential struggles, of needing to be an entity
about connections we make to other people
about seeing ourselves in someone else’s eyes
of making contact

selfdestructive behaviour, homicidal and suicial ideation are part of my landscape everyday
the real struggle of knowing we’re alone
we come into the world all by ourselves and we go out by ourselves
that we cant really rely on anyone but our selves
but the insatiable hunger to NOT be alone
to NOT feel our aloneness

its moving

and horrifying

#69

Nah, not cracking, merely seeking to humiliate you by exposing your
underlying narcissistic streak. You are responding, so it must be working
(laughing).

----- Original Message -----
From: “wahela” npd-cpt6626@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] An Oprah writer wants your N stories!

#70

"I've known CZBZ for almost 5 years (Yes, it HAS been that long), and I highly respect her, trust her as much as I trust anybody online, and her actions and her words are the same...And no, we are not sockpuppets together." ~wahela

Well I can't let this thread drift to the bottom of the page without thanking you for saying this, Wahela! You've been right there with me, twisting in the wind like leaves in a hurricane---trying to get ourselves stable again. We've both made great progress learning to stand up for ourselves with enough chutzpah to share our lives with others.

And, you've been through some mighty storms with and without me, too.

Nobody said healing was easy. We do and we must change. If we aren't changing, we aren't healing--it's as simple as that! Seeing people's progress without judging them for being wounded or defensive or maybe a little angry once in a while, is the great joy of maintaining relationships online!

I've seen you change. You've seen me change and it's always been for the better! So kudos to you and to me for daring expose our healing process in a public way---even if we are identified by screen names.

We are living proof that people can and do heal from abusive relationships. The Narcissist is not so all-mighty powerful as he or she believes. ha!

Hugs to you and 'THANK YOU!'

CZ

 

 

#71

Sam,

Putting yourself down is de trop…

You have NEVER been any kind of snob…to my certain knowledge you have always been equallity obnoxious, ignorant and exploitative to all, regardless of how rich/poor, helpless/powerful they might be.

CZBZ,

The unfortunate reality is that whatever gobsh*te you come out with were are still left with the reality that you are not sincere, are persistantly manipulative and habitually emotionally abusaive to others.

You also show every sign of a pathological compulsion to control others.

This is NOT something anybody would honestly expect you to admit…but it is so blatant that, in the event somebody was to ask me to define online psychological and emotional abuse, as lazy as I am, I would be inclined to short hand it to “google CZBZ and see for yourself, she has it all”.

The problem, as I see it, in terms of you hustling people into your online community (and, by covert association, the wider Fifi network) is that, obviously (as we can see here) your intention is to somehow, persuade/ bulldoze/blackmail/bribe/whatever works vulnerable people into accepting your behavior as not only neutral, but more, you want them to accept your behavior as honest, compassionate, healthy, caring etc…

I can see why you would want to do that…

BUT…

Once vulnerable people are conditioned to ignore all the obvious red flags and accept your behavior as honest, compassionate, healthy, caring etc. how in the name of the peerless all night feck are they supposed to recognise and avoid the next predator they meet, who will, most likely be behaving in a very similar way??

GD

#72

                               PROJECTION

neurotic projection is perceiving others as operating in ways one unconsciously finds objectionable in yourself.

go here to read more

en.wikipeda-org/wiki/spsychological_projection

www.heretical.com/sexce/bpsyohol.html

changingminds.org/explainations/behaviors/coping

                                     hugs mamolie

#73

I remember learning about people who were self-righteous , explaining that they are convinced they can protect people, if people would just listen. That they were the only ones who seemed to know what the truth was, and had a need to convince everyone else who had been folled, of what that truth was.

The only problem is, peoples ears turn deaf to selfrighteous types, unless they really are so lacking on selfdetermination that they fall prey to cult leaders, in which case they swallow “the truth” whole without chewing on it, and see the truth sayer as infallible and godlike.

I’m SO glad we’re all chewing over the selfrighteous “I can save you with the truth” stuff.

I cant tell you how comforting that is to me people :slight_smile:

I think I am in the right forum finally :smiley:

#74

I love you too, Blitzen.

Did ya have a bad night or something?? You seem kinda ornery today.

CZBZ

 

 

#75

Mamolie

exactly!

the way we see ourselves and the way others see us are almost always two different things. We used to hasve fun playing the “I think that you think that I am__________” game, where you say that to your partner
and then the other person answers and says their part back to you…

You get a clearer understanding of the disparity between the two and some insight to how youre perceived. I learned I migth feel like a biker bitch amazon warrior, but people actually fine me cute and cuddly and like a charming little girl…imagine my shock!!!

Primary projectors cant play that game unfortunately. Anything you tell them about theyre seen by you or others only becomes more evidence they use in their fight against what they perceive as conspiracy.

You can never win with a primary projector. The only thing you can do for yourself is take their words and make it about them, because then you know what they really are doing.

I know an incredibly sweet and charming projector who I’ve dated on and off over the last year. He said to a mutual friend, “he said he thinks he might stop asking you out because you obviously have a crush on him”, she told me later “but its obvious to everyone he’s the one with the crush on you, he just wont admit it to himself”. Hmmm…interesting, especially since I’d made it clear I loved his company and enjoyed going out with him, but not in a romantic way.

So pretend your favourite projector is REALLY saying "I look spiteful and silly"
or
"I’m equally obnoxious, ignorant and exploitive to all"
or
"I am not sincere, I’m persistantly manipulative and habitually emotionally abusive to others.
I also show every sign of a pathological compulsion to control others.
This is NOT something anybody would honestly expect me to admit…but it is so blatant that, in the event somebody was to ask you to define online psychological and emotional abuse, as lazy as you are, you might be inclined to short hand it to “google Blitzen and see for yourself, she has it all”.

neat how that works isnt it?

if you ever want to play the “I think that you think” projection game with me though, private message me :slight_smile: its very entertaining

#76

Now Phoenix, that was a most excellent post! Lemme see if I can follow your instructions:

"You are the kindest, gentlest and most truest person in our loverly world!"

hehehe

When the X-husbaNd was doing the ol' D&D (devalue and discard), he was projecting all over the place though I didn't understand it at the time.

O, I was used to the normal projection that we all do. Like getting mad at our kids for not making their beds simply because we never make ours. We even learn as children that 'What You Say is What You Are...nanner nanner nanner!"

But when my own hubbie was switching from one woman to another, his projection was blatantly crazy-making. That's because I didn't understand pathological narcissism...welp, now I do.

So here's how it was back five years ago:

He was secretly sleeping with another woman, plotting to move in the house as soon as I was done with the remodel. Figuring out how to avoid paying spousal support even after three decades of marriage.

So he takes off for the week-end with his main squeeze and returns the following Monday since his work clothes were still in our bedroom closet.

He goes out to do something (I can't recall what) and I start rummaging through his carry-on bag like a crazed fishwife. Checking for godonlyknowswhat and hoping I'd not find a thing. But I did.

In his bag was a paper that looked for all the world like something he had written while in conversation with Ms. HuffnPuff.

It said, "CZ is a manipulator and a con. CZ is CAPABLE of ANYTHING!!! Be CAREFUL!!!"

The facts at the time of my husband's distorted perceptions were these: 

I was fidel.

I was a homemaker.

I was nice as Doris Day and funny as HowdyDoody.

But what I was not, was a con artist, a manipulator and a selfish Bipch.

He was talking about himself and didn't even know it. That's what so baffling about unconscious defenses. He Believed His own lies...and most likely, so did MS. HuffnPuff.

Nobody believes a lie more than a Narcissist.

Truth is, being afraid of me was like being afraid of a lop-eared bunny on Xanax. The person he really feared, was himself.

So there ya go. I have been through this before and it's far less traumatic than it was five years ago when I'd never even heard of NPD.

Hugs all,

CZBZ

#77

CZBZ,

I can ID your story. I never interpreted mine though as projecting himself. I would blow lies he told others so he had to set up and cover in case that happened. When he found his girl friend and moved in with her, he cried on mutual friends shoulders how hurt he was because I was cheating on him and had forced him to move out of the house. I did not know at the time she existed. Never would have believed it of him but anyway.

There were actually a few friends who were so ugly to me as if I was the most vicious person in the world for what I did to him, when it really was the other way around. Day came though that truth fell out and they got to eat their own stuff. Maybe it was projecting but I really still chunk it up to just his game playing and manipulating people to what he wanted, dishonesty, and maintaining this nice guy image that was not deserved.

#78

Nah, you are just boring because you are incapable of conceding a point and
are not open to new experiences. I am going off to play with the other kids
and have me SAM fun.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “mercenary” npd-cpt6626@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] An Oprah writer wants your N stories!

#79

Hi susiejo!

Sorry such a horrible thing happened to you! Being accused of infidelity when you're not guilty is bad enough---but having friends believe your're guilty is even worse! Some people are really good at playing games, manipulating others into accepting their version of reality as the truth.

Most likely, each of us has felt doubly betrayed: by our partNer and by other people who chose to believe the N. Just knowing our friends doubted our integrity 'stings', doesn't it? Lots of people have written about the culpability of the bystander who does nothing. Or those who 'choose' to believe something we thought would be 'unbelievable.' I hope your friends have come around to see the truth about who you really are.

Sadly, when people are able to cut through the lies and distortions, they are too embarassed to reconcile friendships. I've been there too---though trying to defend myself only made me appear to be guilty. The best thing we can do maybe is 'withdraw' and wait for all the cards to be laid on the table. Then, if we want to reconcile old friendships, we can take the first step. I can't really blame people for believing what the X said. After all, I believed him for years. ha!

"When he found his girl friend and moved in with her, he cried on mutual friends shoulders how hurt he was because I was cheating on him and had forced him to move out of the house. "

If he was conscious of what he was doing, then I'm guessing his behavior would be more like 'manipulation' than it would be  'projection.' In a way, it almost makes it worse though--your X realized he was destroying his own wife by fabricating a case against her to keep people distracted from his affair! Or to justify his affair perhaps...that's another tactic narcissists use: She did it first so you can't blame me!

If he's conscious of what he's doing, that's quite different from someone who is denying reality by projecting his or her malicious characteristics onto others. In so doing, unconscious projections relieve shame-based feelings that are intolerable (and irresolvable in some cases.)

I think it's important to distinguish between normal defenses and pathological defenses. Everybody has defenses protecting themselves but we underestimate the power of pathological defenses to protect the Narcissist's fragile self and thereby distort reality.

What was so confusing a few years ago, was the unconscious projection on me of everything the X was ashamed of in himself. I'd simply stare at him in wonder...it was the most crazy-making time of our lives.

Hugs,

CZBZ

 

#80

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. It contains an inordinate amount of
nonsense contributed by people who know nothing about the topics that they
write about or edit:

http://samvak.tripod.com/wikipedia.html

Projection and Projective Identification - Abuser in Denial

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/5002

Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “mamolie” npd-cpt6626@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] An Oprah writer wants your N stories!