Here I describe myself

Bup is an adult and you are not her custodian or her parent.

For that matter, you are not my custodian or parent.

So, get off your soap box, abandon your high moral ground, and let me and
bup manage our own affairs without your busybody uncalled for interference.
No one invited you to our correspondence, so butt off.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “PrimaDonna” npd-cpt7141@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Here I describe myself

I love your eloquence, civility, and good upbringing.

If I recall correctly, you are also an unemployed multimillionaire.

(laughing uproariously)

----- Original Message -----
From: “nic” npd-cpt7141@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Here I describe myself

its sarcastic its light hearted and its funny. its in response to sams nasties and insinuations. not rocket science. you have aspergers, i am sorry about that, dont know much about it but i dont think anyone here can help you. why are you here?

Correct Sam,

I am not Bups parent. And I am not yours. I am however, not now, nor will I ever be, a silent bystander when abusive bullying behaviours takes place.

Simple.

So, if you dont want me to speak to you like a parent, then choose not to behave like a bullying child…or worse…a bullying spouse…cuz I dont want you to feel like I’m being your mother-in-law either. :slight_smile:

I will ignore your sanctimonious self-righteousness from now on. It is a
sign of pathological grandiosity. How I behave is my business and bup’s -
not yours.

Mind your own business.

And stop sending me private messages all the time about how you plan to save
this forum. I have better things to do than to abet your grandiose
fantasies. In your way, you are as much the narcissist as Gaye.

Read these:

Grandiosity, Fantasies, and Narcissism

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4923

----- Original Message -----
From: “PrimaDonna” npd-cpt7141@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Here I describe myself

THIS IS A WONDERFUL BREAKTHROUGH. WE CAN STAND UP TO BULLIES!
HURRAY! THEY ARE
PATHETIC LOSERS! AND WE ARE THE WINNERS! JUST ALWAYS REMEMBER
THAT! WHY WOULD
A BULLY BE A BULLY? TO GET POWER. THEY HAVE NO POWER. SAM WAS
PLAYING A GAME
WITH ME TO MAKE ME FEEL BADLY ABOUT MYSELF. I LAUGHED IN HIS FACE.
THAT IS WHAT
HE IS TRYING TO GET US TO DO. I AM NOT GIVING HIM POWER BY SAYING
THAT EITHER. HE
IS DEMONSTRATING THAT THE NARCISSIST USES THOSE ATTACKS TO MAKE YOU
FEEL BADLY, BUT
IF YOU DON’T ALLOW IT, ALLOW THEM TO PENETRATE YOUR SKIN, YOU WON’T
BE A VICTIM TO IT
ANY LONGER.

On Dec 17, 2007, at 7:43 AM, PrimaDonna wrote:

Well put, bup.

How to Cope with Narcissistic and Psychopathic Abusers

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq4.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily19.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily20.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/npdtips.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/5.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq80.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/4.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq75.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal56.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal68.html

Strategies for Coping with Abusers (General)

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse3.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse17.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse19.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse20.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse21.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse21a.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse21b.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse12.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse13.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse5.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse6.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily13.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily5.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily6.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily8.html

Working with the System and with Professionals

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily10.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily11.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily12.html

How to Cope with Stalkers and Paranoids

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse18.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse15.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse16.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily14.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily16.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily17.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily18.html

Take care.

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “bup” npd-cpt7141@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Here I describe myself

THANKS SAM. A SCHOOL OF 8 MONTHS OF HARDCORE THERAPY. SHE WAS
EXCELLENT.
I DON’T REALLY HAVE A FAMILY ANYMORE BECAUSE OF IT, BUT THEY WON’T
HURT ME AGAIN. THAT WAS THE CHOICE I HAD TO MAKE FOR MY OWN
PROTECTION. NO MORE VICTIM. BECAUSE
EVEN IF THE NARCISSIST THINKS HE HAS POWER OVER YOU, IT IS AN
ILLUSION. HE IS
AN EQUAL NOT GOD.

On Dec 17, 2007, at 7:57 AM, samvaknin wrote:

I’m not the only one who feels this way Sam.
I’m just one of the few people who wants to say “stop” vocally and loudly.

Its how I conduct myself in my personal life, its how I conduct myself in my professional life, and its natural then I’d conduct myself that way here too. If you would have been decent enough to take your vicious criticism of Bup privately then this wouldnt be an issue. But humiliating her publicly as Gaye does with just about everyone else on this forum is not acceptable. Not just to me, but to many people.

They write me privately expressing their disgust.

Perhaps if they wrote publicly you might see I’m part of a group, not a sanctimoniosu self-righteous grandiose N. Podner this for just a brief moment…that I might, JUST MIGHT want this forum not to collpapse. Not because I think I’m an N. But because I really do believe it has something constructive to offer people who are or know a N. But behaviour like Gayes, and yours yesterday will convince the last fe wof us who still read and contribute to this forum to leave.

Will that be a big loss to me? Not a big one no. Will it be a big loss to you? Probably not a big one no. Will it be a big loss to any of the other survivors who are already or will shortly become members? Probably not, no. But it would be nice if that wouldnt happen.

ESPECIALLY since those of us who are here, reading and contributing are heading into a holiday that will likely have some emotional pitfalls. It would be nice if we had this place to come to for support and warmth and commonality. I’d like that as a member, not a leader. But I’m willing to stick my neck out and put some effort into trying to stem the blood flow even if it means I get more verbal abuse from you and Gaye.

Dont do it for me, God knows, this isnt the first time youve verbally abused me, it likely wont be the last (and this for someone who has said more than a half dozen tines I recommend your book, for Chrissakes, learn how to handle your public)…do it for the people you claim youre here to serve…like Bup and everyone else who has been victimized by a N.

wake up man!

Trisha,

I am going to step in here right now and state that you have dished out a great deal more abuse on this forum than anyone, including Sam.

Beyond that, the kind of abuse that you dish out is carefully thought out with the intention of causing serious, lasting, internal damage to your target.

GD

Merry Christmas Gaye.

Phoenix:

Dont do it for me, God knows, this isnt the first time youve verbally abused
me, it likely wont be the last (and this for someone who has said more than
a half dozen tines I recommend your book, for Chrissakes, learn how to
handle your public)

Sam:

This is typical American thinking. Recommending my book does NOT buy you
immunity to the truth. I don’t pander to “my public”. I call reality as I
see it, warts and all. I do not let commercial considerations interfere with
my judgment and with being true to myself. I am proud NOT to be American:
spineless, money-grabbing, unctuous, sleazy, and bible-thumping,
sanctimonious, interfering busybodies, and self-righteous. I detest these
qualities in people.

You ARE sanctimonious, self-righteous, and grandiose. These are FACTS. In
this sense, you are not different to Gaye - only your TACTICS are different.

You claim to be a therapist. Maybe. But, if you are, you sure have a long
way to go.

Read this about grandiose therapists (if, indeed, you are one):

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily24.html

I AM SORRY FOR CAUSING THIS. SAM AND I WERE ROLE PLAYING. HE IS
MEAN, BUT IN THIS
SITUATION, HE WAS PUSHING MY LIMITS SO THAT I WOULD BE ANGRY, BUT I
CAUGHT ON. I
EGGED IT ON BY SAYING I ALWAYS PLAYED PING PONG WITH NARCISSISTS AS A
CHILD, SO I
GREW USED TO THE BANTER OF ABUSE. BUT NOW THAT I KNOW THE GAME, IT
DOES EFFECT ME ANYMORE. HE WAS ROLE PLAYING PROJECTION. AND IF HE
WASN’T AND HE WAS THAT MEAN, I DON’T CARE BECAUSE HE HAS NO IDEA WHO
I AM AND WHAT FEELINGS I HAVE FELT. THIS IS
WHAT WE ALL HAVE IN COMMON. WE DO NOT PROTECT OUR FEELINGS ENOUGH.
WHEN THERE IS SMOKE, THERE IS FIRE, 99.5% OF THE TIME. OR MAYBE
MORE. WHEN YOU FEEL THAT SOMETHING
ISN’T QUITE RIGHT, IT USUALLY ISN’T RIGHT AND IT IS OK TO STICK UP
FOR YOURSELF.

On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:08 AM, PrimaDonna wrote:

This is typical American thinking. Recommending my book does NOT
buy you immunity to the truth. I don’t pander to “my public”. I call
reality as I see it, warts and all. I do not let commercial
considerations interfere with my judgment and with being true to
myself. I am proud NOT to be American: spineless, money-grabbing,
unctuous, sleazy, and bible-thumping, sanctimonious, interfering
busybodies, and self-righteous. I detest these qualities in people.

DON’T EVEN DEFEND YOURSELF PHEONIX, HE IS PUSHING YOUR BUTTONS SO YOU
DO GET
ANGRY. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE… HE IS USING VAGUE STEREO TYPES
OF AMERICAN CULTURE THAT PERTAIN TO NO ONE AND EVERYONE. HE IS THE
CAT AND YOU ARE THE MOUSE… LAUGH
IN HIS FACE. THIS IS A GAME…JUST LIKE CHESS, IT IS A
WAY TO MANIPULATE THE OPPOSITION. DONT REACT!!! HE IS HELPING US.
I PROMISE. I FIGURED IT OUT YESTERDAY.
NARCISSISTS WANT YOU TO REACT AND FEEL BADLY, BUT IF YOU DON’T AND
YOU LAUGH, AND
YOUR SELF ESTEEM COMES FROM YOUR CORE INSIDE, YOU WILL WIN EVERY
SINGLE ITME.

On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:19 AM, samvaknin wrote:

Well so we both have disgust with America in common (except for the few Americans I know personally).

Great!

Did I ask you to pander to your public? Did I use those words? No.

Did you see I suggested perhaps you might have wanted to take your message private if you wanted to be vicious to one of your readers? No one is asking you to give up your ethics just to sell books.

But I guess what I was asking you to do is not publicly humiliate a reader in front of other readers, especially when theyre all survivors of N’s…and youre a N. A smart author might be savvy enough to take his personal objections to a reader private. The urge to publicly humiliate is not about being honest, its about being abusive. And I KNOW you KNOW that.

And allow me to say yet again, I am trained as a therapist, I dont work as one. I work in an environment with people who ARE BULLIES, who come from abusive environments and who want to continue what they know by being abusive in my environment.

Its not acceptable.

Nothing you can say will make it acceptable.

Not because I say so, or someone else says so, or if no one says so in future (because look what they get for their efforts), but that will NEVER make it acceptable.

If I see someone being verbally, physically or sexually abused, you’re damn right I’m going to say something about it, and hopefully I wont be the only one. But if I am, so be it. If I get grief from someone like you, so be it.

Jutsify, rationalize, be defensive,project and insult me all you want. It wont make what you did, or what Gaye continues to do acceptable.

The usual you, the funny, erudite you – is.

Bup,

Is that the only reason why you said:


They are probably sleeping with their fathers and
brothers like I was…


Or is there more to it than that?

Can you please answer and put my mind at rest here?

Because if what you said was true a very serious criminal offence was committed against you, and you should be talking to the police and a professional counsellor about it as soon as possible.

GD

Bup, you sharp cookie, you!

(alughing)

Bup:

DON’T EVEN DEFEND YOURSELF PHEONIX, HE IS PUSHING YOUR BUTTONS SO YOU
DO GET
ANGRY. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE… HE IS USING VAGUE STEREO TYPES
OF AMERICAN CULTURE THAT PERTAIN TO NO ONE AND EVERYONE. HE IS THE
CAT AND YOU ARE THE MOUSE… LAUGH
IN HIS FACE. THIS IS A GAME…JUST LIKE CHESS, IT IS A
WAY TO MANIPULATE THE OPPOSITION. DONT REACT!!! HE IS HELPING US.
I PROMISE. I FIGURED IT OUT YESTERDAY.
NARCISSISTS WANT YOU TO REACT AND FEEL BADLY, BUT IF YOU DON’T AND
YOU LAUGH, AND
YOUR SELF ESTEEM COMES FROM YOUR CORE INSIDE, YOU WILL WIN EVERY
SINGLE ITME.

On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:19 AM, samvaknin wrote:

“I love your eloquence, civility, and good upbringing.”

Thanks sam, i say it as i see it and make no claim to intellect tho I have enjoyed considerable success in business of which I am very proud

“If I recall correctly, you are also an unemployed multimillionaire.”

Not sure what the relevance of my work life or financial situation is, but I do recal making referance to it at one stage. As i recall, when i used the term unemployed about myself, I was attempting to make the point that i have time that I can afford to waste, and was doing so in pathetic and childish exchanges with you at the time.

I am indeeed unemployed, presently following my retirement from businss, but I am also a student, which I enjoy. I am many other things.

I am studying basic psychology, and my first assignement considered the subject of identity. A human who knows nothing about me is most welcome to identlfy me as “an unemployed multimillionaire.” There was a time in history when the “20 statememnts test” i.e, 20 speedilly assimilated “I AM” statements was accepted as a form of identifying people, but it was quickly outdated.

I suggest that its of no great interest to anyone here who or what i am. that is not the nature of the online forum interaction as i see it. i hope therefore that your interest in the “I AM’s” of nic are now satified.

OH MY GOD, SARCASM PEOPLE… I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE HEARD OF
IT. SAM WS BEING
SARCASTIC AS WAS I…HE KNOWS THAT I WASN’T SLEEPING WITH MY
BROTHER AND FATHER.
HE WAS SCREWING WITH ME. LET US PUT THIS TO REST BEFORE SOMEONE DOES
CALL THE
POLICE…END OF STORY… HE WAS USING IT AS A
WEAPON…LIKE A SWORD TO A FEATHER…SAM
KNOWS THAT THE GIG IS UP WITH ME AND HE IS TESTING MY ABILITIES…

On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:33 AM, blitzen wrote:

I dont care if he is a N role plaing with you unless you two negotiated that up front.

I strongly suspect no negotiation was made, he just went for your jugular.

And yes, all of us do have the right to stand up and defend ourselves.

And as a member of a forum, as a survivor of a N relationship (I’m not here to be a therapist, I’m here for ME, for MY recovery) this is how I stand up for myself.

By calling bullying and abusive behaviour exactly what it is.

Thats the only time I ever get “sanctimonious”.

I wont be one of those people who will just walk away and say “its none of my business” when someone is being abusive to another.

I dont find that humorous and I wont smile at the abuser and laugh at how humorous he is.

If you want to do that fine.

I, however, am the kind of person who either jumps between them or calls the police.