Susiejo,
You got vices too?
If I hadn’t I think I’d shoot myself and be done with it.
I love this philosophy of “healing through never listening to anybody who tells you the truth though” I could make some SERIOUS use of that myself…
GD
sorry blitzen , diid i call you susiejoe? Where and when>
I could copy, edit and itallic and past and fuck about with your post but i can really be arsed doing my pretzel routine tonight, not grumpy enough, may give you one tomorrow if i feel inclined.
and you better be there for me if i do!
so far so reliable. sv is my back up if i get stuck,
lol
xx
Thank gosh, I was trying to figure out when I wrote that stuff, and it didn’t sound like me. Somethings you have to check your reality systems though.
Hi Blitzen, i have a couple of questions: Phoenix and CZBZ: I wonder what you think (if you ever bother to think about it, and I doubt if you do) it does to real victims of abuse to be constantly bullied and played on by people like you I dont comprehend how these people bully and play me, could you explain (try to keep it brief if pos, my concentration is not great)
I am interested because i cant see it myself, and i dont feel in any way threatened. bullied or played in an online environmet, and cant imagine how i ever would. we take what we choose, get up from the seat and get on with real life, at least thats what i do.
second question, am I right in saying that your trying to tell us
That NPD does not exist - yes or no
That NPD exists but that we are wrong to use its name in vain if a pro has not diagnosed it - yes or no
I would agree that its easy to label people inappropriately just cos they dont fit with you. I thought about the just call it abuse thing that i think you have mentioned before. Nobody knew i was abused - NOBODY. it was not something i could describe as abuse that people understand abuse
to be. It was a pattern of behaviours that even I could not comprehend nor put a word to. it was disordered and distorted behaviours. Not abuse as we know it.
I have to agree that labelling somebody NPD who is not, is entirely wrong, but so is calling somebodya a bastard who has parents, so there’s not a lot of point in getting in a big flap about it, cos it wont stop it happening.
Only a qualified mental health diagnostician can determine whether someone
suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and this, following
lengthy tests and personal interviews. Click on these links to learn more:
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/1.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/npdglance.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq82.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faqpd.html
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “nickinstant” npd-cpt3474@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] I would like a concise but detailed description of the…
Nickinstant said:
I dont comprehend how these people bully and play me, could you explain (try to keep it brief if pos, my concentration is not great)
I’ll go one better, I’ll use your own words:
“Nobody knew i was abused - NOBODY. it was not something i could describe as abuse that people understand abuse to be. It was a pattern of behaviours that even I could not comprehend nor put a word to. it was disordered and distorted behaviours. Not abuse as we know it.”
And I’ll take it as read that you didn’t see THAT coming when you signed on for it either?
Psychological and emotional abuse is the only kind of abuse that adapts fully to an online environment that is, to date, largely unregulated and unaccountable.
Nickinstant said:
i dont feel in any way threatened. bullied or played in an online environmet, and cant imagine how i ever would.
Most people feel that way too, until it is too late, which is why it is so easy to do it and such a serious problem.
See above, people who have just come out of a situation of psychological and emotional abuse are particularly vulnerable, because they have become conditioned and anaesthetised into accepting psychological and emotional abuse without challenge.
Nickinstant said:
That NPD does not exist - yes or no
That NPD exists but that we are wrong to use its name in vain if a pro has not diagnosed it - yes or no
NPD exists, but it is as daft to go round DIY diagnosing it in people to suit yourself as it would be to diagnose appendicitis in the same people. NPD is the name of an established medical condition, not a “New Wave” insult.
Nickinstant said:
I have to agree that labelling somebody NPD who is not, is entirely wrong, but so is calling somebodya a bastard who has parents, so there’s not a lot of point in getting in a big flap about it, cos it wont stop it happening.
Of course not, but that doesn’t make it a good idea to encourage it either, and it goes a little beyond that, in the sense that, so far, over the past 9 years, the online cult that has developed around Sam Vaknin and NPD has actively striven to silence and drown out any real information about NPD while promoting DIY diagnosis and an overpriced, self published, paperback in a stereotypical cult of toxic revictimisation.
I’m all for free speech, but free speech cuts both ways. The facts are just as entitled to free speech as the BS is.
GD
nickinstant SAID
I thought about the just call it abuse thing that i think you have mentioned before. Nobody knew i was abused - NOBODY.
it was not something i could describe as abuse that people understand abuse to be.
It was a pattern of behaviours that even I could not comprehend nor put a word to.
it was disordered and distorted behaviours. Not abuse as we know it
YOU NAILED IT, YOU KNEW SOMETHING WAS OFF BUT EXACTLY, YOU COULD NOT EXPLAIN IT ALL OR MAKE SENSE OF IT ALL. MINE WAS MR WONDERFUL, EVEN WHEN I STARTED TO TRY TO EXPLAIN HE WAS NOT AT HOME, NO ONE BELIEVED ME. HARDLY ANYONE KNOWS ABOUT THIS DISORDER IN THE FIRST PLACE, TRY TO TELL THEM ABOUT THIS DISORDER, YOU SOUND CRAZY AND HARD TO BELIEVE THAT ALSO. THEY THINK NARCISSISTS ARE JUST SELF ABSORBED PEOPLE AND DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW SERIOUS THE DISORDER IS.
SUSIEJO AND BLITZEN ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO TELL ANY OF US WHAT WE LIVED THROUGH.THEY DID NOT LIVE IN OUR HOMES! THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY "OUR" FEELINGS ARE WRONG. WE KNOW AND OWN" OUR" FEELINGS NOT THEM. WE CHOOSE OUR PATH TO HEALING, NO CAN FORSE THEIR WAY ON YOU.
THEY HAVE NO DEGREES IN PSYCHOLOGY, NO MEDICAL DEGREES WHAT SO EVER, YET THEY COME ON THROWING ALL THAT CRAP LIKE THEY ARE MEDICAL SCIENTISTS, RESEARCHERS AND DOCTORS, THEY KNOW BEST.
THEY KNOW BEST HOW TO DISTORT REALITY, DISRUPT, CREATE CHAOS AND CONFUSION , DO PERSONAL ATTACKS, MAKE EXCUSES FOR THE POOR SODS THAT HAVE OR NOT HAVE A DISORDER. DOES ANY OF THAT FEEL FAMILIAR WITH ANYONE???? DOES IT FEEL LIKE YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE YELLOW BRICK ROAD IN THE WIZARD OF OZ, LET"S ALL CLICK OUR HEELS AND SEE IF THEY DISAPPEAR AND WE GET BACK HOME. REMEMBER WE HAVE THE ANSWERS INSIDE US, THAT'S ALL WE NEED TO KNOW! HUGS MAMOLIE
Mamolie said:
TRY TO TELL THEM ABOUT THIS DISORDER, YOU SOUND CRAZY AND HARD TO BELIEVE THAT ALSO.
Well you won’t sound so crazy if you stick to the diagnostic criteria and stop “customising” NPD to fit your needs.
Mamolie said:
THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY “OUR” FEELINGS ARE WRONG. WE KNOW AND OWN" OUR" FEELINGS NOT THEM.
I certainly DO have the right to point out that there is a vast gulf of difference between a “diagnosis” and a “feeling”!
Mamolie said:
REMEMBER WE HAVE THE ANSWERS INSIDE US, THAT’S ALL WE NEED TO KNOW!
Yeah, keep making it up as you go along…that’ll work.
GD
You got it mamolie,
After years of dealing with Ns, I believe we acquired more knowledge and sense, than some of the professionals when it comes to spot a N. And thanks to Sam we even got some tools to double check.
One of the sure signs of abuse for me is, by watching carefully how a couple acts when you have a conversation, with each and then when they are together.
The abuser will give you a display of confidence and charisma, while the abused will sort of freeze up and show signs of being uncomfortable, quiet and insecure when the abuser is around.
It is a devilish game they play. The good thing is, more and more people find out what is really going on. And again, thanks Sam, you opened my eyes, and you still help me, help others to see the light.
Love Gypsy
AHHHHH. I love you Mamolie… You are so precise in your
train of thought. As my therapist said, you have “A FEELING” that
something is not quite right. And my therapist said, 99% of the time,
instincts say it all. The one term that my mother ALWAYS used to
use is “THE GRANDIOSITY DISEASE”. She MAY have figured it out, but
did not know what NPD was. It is NEVER a normal experience being
around my father or brother. NEVER! Some people are convinced they
are SPECIAL and should be treated with SPECIAL white gloves and have
a specialty staff in inane interpretation. You almost feel like a
NURSE who never has the right implements. You start sweating and
panicking, not knowing what they want. But I KNOW THE TRUTH…
Here is a great story backing all this up. Last summer was my dad’s
70th birthday. (this was before the antique incident). I told both
my brothers that I had AN AMAZING idea for his gift. An outdoor
fireplace for
our summer house. They are wonderful and they keep bugs away. My dad
is really into fires. My dad has EVERYTHING in the world so he is
hard to shop for. I spent days on the internet showing them
different models and they were agreeable. Suddenly their interest
faded and there was silence. Then I discover that they agreed
together to get him a GPS. With NO WORD TO ME. They gave it to him
with out ANY consultation or my ok and I looked like a complete
asshole. Then my N brother said, " Oh, I know dad’s tastes. He is
too persnickity for an outdoor fireplace"… NOW I KNOW WHY
HE IS SO PERSNICKITY!!!
So this year, after I discovered NPD, I went ahead and bought him one
by myself, a Fn’g outdoor fireplace. And I don’t GIVE a shit what he
does with it…
On Nov 14, 2007, at 8:38 AM, mamolie wrote:
No one has or is telling you what you experienced mamolie. No one is telling you that you do not feel what you feel.
Rather the challenges have been about others including yourself playing doctor, diagnosing and slamming a medical label on other people. And than proceeding to “heal” them. Isn’t it called practicing medicine without a license?
Read what Sam posted earlier and actually numerous times - "Only a qualified mental health diagnostician can determine whether someone suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and this, following lengthy tests and personal interviews. "
I will also add that feelings and thinking are two different things.
Gypsy:
I love the image of “FREEZE”. I was “FROZEN” my whole childhood-39
years old… I have upper neck problems because of it. I
CLENCHED non stop… But it is SO IRONIC…I have
stopped CLENCHING… I can breath again…and it feels
great!!! And they are TRYING TO GET ME BACK TO MY ROLE, but
I am not taking the bate…
On Nov 14, 2007, at 9:05 AM, gypsy wrote:
Mamolie, you were RIGHT ON TARGET. CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR
UNBELIEVABLE INSIGHT AND
MAGNIFICENT UNDERSTANDING OF THE HUMAN MIND. EMOTIONS AND FEELINGS
ARE AN INCREDIBLE PART OF BEING HUMAN. THINK OF THE CAVEMAN ERA.
INSTINCTS WERE EVERYTHING TO A WOMAN. OUR ABILITY TO HAVE A SIXTH
SENSE GAVE US THE POWER TO SURVIVE. KEEP THAT IN YOUR HEART ALWAYS
AND SMILE, SMILE, SMILE… YOUR EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE
SURPASSES ANY TEXT BOOK. YOUR ESSENCE MAKES MY DAY A BETTER
DAY…AND I CAN SMILE AND EMIT RAYS OF MY OWN BRILLIANCE
BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THERE IS A PERSON OUT THERE JUST AS EMOTIONALLY
INTELLIGENT AS I AM. AND I CAN CONTINUE TO SEEK PEACE AND
SPIRITUALITY INSTEAD OF FEELING LIKE I HAVE BEEN RUN OVER BY A
TRUCK…LIFE IS A MUCH BETTER PLACE.
On Nov 14, 2007, at 9:07 AM, susiejo wrote:
Isn’t that great? The feeling of being free and happy?
The first time I felt free being around my XN, was awesome,…
His vicious attacks on me, in front of other people, exposing himself for the first time,… priceless.
My situation was different…Priceless antique that had been in
my family since 1961 sold behind my back by my N brother for a
projector screen tv and a mahogany murphy bed. (not for any important
reason). My whole family kept it secret from me, putting me out to
scapegoat pasture, which is where I was anyway, I just didn’t know
how to prove that I felt that way…NOW I HAVE PROOF!!! Everything
is crystal clear…
On Nov 14, 2007, at 9:22 AM, gypsy wrote:
I don’t even want to think about what I got stolen from me by my XN,… still sort of bothers me!
But when I think about what I have gained,… I remember times when I was so unhappy, that all my material things did not mean nothing to me, probably would have happily given them up for just a few moments of sanity in my life. I try not to think about it, what is gone is gone. It is so much more important to me to to focus on and appreciate what I have now, and how I feel about myself and my loved ones. It is so important for me to see the glass half full instead of half empty.
Letting go and start a new way of living and thinking, completed my turnaround in life.
Wow, so he stole from you? Jesus. I find it is worse than any
feeling that my brother did this to me. It is SO
deceitful. And the fact that my family protected his actions and
made me look like the selfish one is worse than being raped and no
one believes you. My mind has gone to the deepest depths of my
soul. I am cured
Gypsy Lee but I am never to trust my family again. This feeling is
so insurmountable. The rule was NEVER to
take things from our summer home, by my dead mother. SHE WAS SO
serious when she told us this. It had happened to her, so she KNEW
HOW demoralizing it is… I have never taken someone so seriously
when she told me these words. I looked in her eyes and believed her,
more than anything else she ever told me. Sex was less important to
her than purloining. And now, I don’t know if I can go to my
summer home again. It is like going back to the scene of a crime.
This is 39 years down the drain of memory. I know that it seems SO
TRIVIAL to some, but my memory of family, my personhood has been
devalued by narcissism. It
is not the money that he absorbed, but the secrecy, the lies, the
covering up…It is just like OJ, I swear to God…
On Nov 14, 2007, at 9:51 AM, gypsy wrote:
I think this is all they want to do Susiejo:
playing doctor, diagnosing and slamming a medical label on other people. And than proceeding to “heal” them. Isn’t it called practicing medicine without a license?
…as well as making up their own diagnostic criteria to suit themselves as they go along.
Which is fine, we can’t all grow up on time after all, if they didn’t try to bully, abuse, silence and gag anyone who doesn’t play along with them.
GD
Invicta, et all, pretty much disappeared for several years. We never saw her on any of the forums, nor in any google for quite some time (yes, we did keep an eye out). I would estimate from 2004 to 2005. I wonder if there is an alter ego that is a housewife in the suburbs with 2.5 children, a house with a picket fence and a big shaggy dog. Its curious to me that Invicta disappeared for a couple of years, then came back.
Just wondering, Sam, did she go away and then come back, or was she following you around even during those years she was quiet on the computer?
wahela
Her stalking went uninterrupted since 1998.
During the last 2 years, she has been molesting the Wikipedia
"encyclopedia".
LOL
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “wahela” npd-cpt3474@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] I would like a concise but detailed description of the…