From: susiejo
Reply-To: susiejo
To: rbuckner62@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [npd] in my unrelated research I came across this
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:05:19 -0400
>
Now THAT’S what I call “attention seeking behavior”.
:o)
GD
to Blitzen
you know better than that, Wesley Snipes is only a man!
Women rule and men will drool!!
…well then…as my MOTHER is the psycho I must be a kind of super-daywalker?
YESSSS!!!
:o)
GD
And you are,…
and you still have a great sense of humor. Keep it up especially when you deal with the creatures of the dark, because they really don’t have a sense of humor and that will always keep you ahead of the game
Ah now…
We have to be honest…Sam actually DOES have a great sense of humor, it’s the closest thing he has to a “saving grace”.
It’s just that sometimes he takes it a little too far…for example, I betchya he thinks I am kidding about the guy with the emerald eyes…
I’m not…
winks
GD
After reading the whole thread…I’m coming back to the original post.
The sexuality. Phoenix, just like you, that has been my experience. It’s unexplainable, unimaginable, and can be nerve racking.
It is the thing that can carry me right back into oblivion if it’s that week or so when my feminine prowless is rather uncontaining. The man who drove me to this site for help and encouragement is the only man who has made me want to howl at the moon.
He has proposed a million times and everyone around him only knows one things about him, that he adores me, and says constantly how he loves me.
He is my ex-husband and the father of my two youngest children. He’s been a part of my life for a third of it. I am 29 years old, but probably the oldest 29 year old you’d ever meet.
The man would absolutely worship me sexually, accentuating every single inch of me…and would probably walk away from almost anything to show up on my front door step if I would allow him in.
I know it sounds exaggerated, but it isn’t.
Sounds great, doesn’t it? Well, it was. But it has been intensely deceptive, because it reels you in to depths you’ve never dreamed of, in intimacy and sexuality (not perversion, sexuality).
Then, to find how it comes to a screeching halt because he does something so out of the ordinary like skip town for three days, out of the blue…and come back refusing to get the third degree, even though I was worried sick whether he was dead or alive.
The unstability, and like you said emotional immaturity…is heart wrenching. It shreds you apart! Esspecially when the dust settles, and that one time of the month, common sense is skewed… and somehow you end up “sweet” on someone you should clearly protect yourself from…AAAAaaaarrrggghhh!
God help me hang on.
OK, so anyways…long story short, I feel you!
Narcissists are afraid of intimacy and commitment.
Click on these links are read the articles:
It is an established fact that abuse - verbal, psychological, emotional,
physical, and sexual - co-occurs with intimacy. Most reported offenses are
between intimate partners and between parents and children. This defies
common sense. Emotionally, it should be easier to batter, molest, assault,
or humiliate a total stranger. It’s as if intimacy CAUSES abuse, incubates
and nurtures it.
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/intimacyabuse.html
Intimacy Retarding Paranoia
Paranoia is use by the narcissist to ward off or reverse intimacy. The
narcissist is threatened by intimacy because it reduces him to ordinariness
by exposing his weaknesses and shortcomings and by causing him to act
"normally". The narcissist also dreads the encounter with his deep buried
emotions - hurt, envy, anger, aggression - likely to be foisted on him in an
intimate relationship.
The paranoid narrative legitimizes intimacy repelling behaviours such as
keeping one’s distance, secrecy, aloofness, reclusion, aggression, intrusion
on privacy, lying, desultoriness, itinerancy, unpredictability, and
idiosyncratic or eccentric reactions. Gradually, the narcissist succeeds to
alienate and wear down all his friends, colleagues, well-wishers, and mates.
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal60.html
The narcissist does his damnedest to avoid intimacy. He constantly lies
about every aspect of his life: his self, his history, his vocations and
avocations, and his emotions. This false data guarantee his informative
lead, asymmetry, or “advantage” in his relationships. It fosters
disintimisation. It casts a pall of cover up, separateness, mystery over the
narcissist’s affairs.
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissismintimacy.html
The narcissist divides all women to saints and whores. He finds it difficult
to have sex (“dirty”, “forbidden”, “punishable”, “degrading”) with feminine
significant others (spouse, intimate girlfriend). To him, sex and intimacy
are mutually exclusive rather than mutually expressive propositions.
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq79.html
People with Personality Disorders (PDs) are very afraid of real, mature,
intimacy. Intimacy is formed not only within a couple, but also in a
workplace, in a neighborhood, with friends, while collaborating on a
project. Intimacy is another word for emotional involvement, which is the
result of interactions with others in constant and predictable (safe)
propinquity.
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq69.html
Narcissists have no interest in emotional or even intellectual stimulation
by significant others. Such feedback is perceived as a threat. Significant
others in the narcissist’s life have very clear roles: the accumulation and
dispensation of past Primary Narcissistic Supply in order to regulate
current Narcissistic Supply. Nothing less but definitely nothing more.
Proximity and intimacy breed contempt. A process of devaluation is in full
operation throughout the life of the relationship.
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq80.html
Inevitably, the sexuality of patients with personality disorders is thwarted
and stunted. In the Paranoid Personality Disorder, sex is depersonalized and
the sexual partner is dehumanized. The paranoid is besieged by persecutory
delusions and equates intimacy with life-threatening vulnerability, a
"breach in the defenses" as it were. the paranoid uses sex to reassure
himself that he is still in control and to quell is anxiety.
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders47.html
http://samvak.tripod.master.com/texis/master/search/?q=approach-avoidance
Question:
What is the mechanism behind the cycles of over-valuation (idealization) and
devaluation in the narcissist’s life?
Answer:
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/devaluationidealization.html
Thus, paradoxically, the worst his anguish and unhappiness, the more
relieved and elated such an abuser feels! He is “liberated” and "unshackled"
by his own self-initiated abandonment, he insists. He never really wanted
this commitment, he tells any willing (or buttonholed) listener - and
anyhow, the relationship was doomed from the beginning by the egregious
excesses and exploits of his wife (or partner or friend or boss).
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse14.html
Thus, on the one hand, the narcissist feels that his freedom depends upon
re-enacting these early experiences. On the other hand, he is terrified by
this prospect. Realizing that he is doomed to go through the same traumas
over and over again, the narcissist distances himself by using his
aggression to alienate, to humiliate and in general, to be emotionally
absent.
This behavior brings about the very consequence that the narcissist so
fears - abandonment. But, this way, at least, the narcissist is able to tell
himself (and others) that HE was the one who fostered the separation, that
it was fully his choice and that he was not surprised. The truth is that,
governed by his internal demons, the narcissist has no real choice. The
dismal future of his relationships is preordained.
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq4.html
In his quest to find new sources, he again embarks on ego-mending bouts of
sex, followed by the selection of a spouse or a mate (a Secondary
Narcissistic Supply Source). Then the cycle re-commence: a sharp drop in
sexual activity, emotional absence and cruel detachment leading to
abandonment.
Continue to read this article here (click on this link):
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq29.html
----- Original Message -----
From: “neednewstart” npd-cpt6590@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] in my unrelated research I came across this
Let me explain some more of my own life…
Psychopaths make the best lovers by far. (However, in line with some other generalisations on this topic, just because psychopaths make the best lovers, doesn’t follow that ALL psychopaths make the best lovers, some are just cr*p).
There is no Voodoo involved, it is all down to cognitive control…“Lady Willpower”…except that a psychopath doesn’t have to assert it at all…it is his default.
So, during sex a psychopath never really loses control (a lot of them never orgasm, in fact, that is THE REDDEST FLAG OF ALL) but on the other hand, has to do something to pass the time, so, as he depends upon a sense of control for all his warm and fuzzy feelings, he is apt to pass a happy time for himself controlling you.
The same is likely to hold true, to one degree or another, for anyone with a psychopathic mindset, like an addict or an alcoholic (as long as they are not too bombed to perform at all anyway).
At optimum, sex with a psychopathic personality is a self perpetuating cycle of fulfillment and lust…like the 70s cult movie “Girl on a Motorcycle” he/she/they calmly play you like a musical instrument until your will is abandoned to them through the medium of your sexuality and they have greater control over you than you do…your lust is their remote control…and they always leave you wanting more.
But the best lover I ever had (and I have had plenty) wasn’t like that at all, he was even slightly sexually dysfunctional, with a tendency to premature ejaculation.
With him it wasn’t about control at all…but about exploring, sharing, communicating, learning…it was something to do WITH a woman, not to TO her…
Instead of strings of multiple orgasms that just trained me to crave more, even afterwards, like an addict, there was only ever one, and it was always mutual, took at least an hour to achieve, and left me feeling relaxed and totally sated…
But I would still say, if you ever have an itch you can’t scratch and you need a quick fix…you can do a LOT worse than grab the nearest psycho…
GD
I have been told more than once that I am a psycho. So few letters of the
alphabet stand between us …;o))
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6590@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] in my unrelated research I came across this
I believe that the biggest sex organ in the body is the brain. If, having sex with a psychopath, using your issues and your damage against you, is the best sex, it is only because the brain, seeing the normality of being with a psychopath for a child of Psychopaths, thinks this is normal.
Having experience with only one NP, the controlling of the partner is fine for awhile. But eventually it becomes more and more depraved and weird, simply because the “controller” needs a bigger and bigger thrill.
Perhaps a one nighter with a psychopath would be good. But after living for 9 years with an NP, I wouldn’t recommend it. I well remember thinking, “Everybody in this house is crazy, except me. And lately, I’m wondering about me.”
There can be a huge amount of control used during sex with the disordered. And that control isn’t usually used for intimacy.
wahela
Sam,
I stopped when I read this:
People with Personality Disorders (PDs) are very afraid of real, mature, intimacy. Intimacy is formed not only within a couple, but also in a workplace, in a neighborhood, with friends, while collaborating on a project. Intimacy is another word for emotional involvement, which is the result of interactions with others in constant and predictable (safe) propinquity.
Help me wrap my head around this (this is not an attack but an attempt to understand). If you (or my ex partner) are indeed NPD, then how is it you (or he) can talk about intimacy with any authority? I believe you want your audience to believe what you're saying is true, and therefore "knowing". But I'm having trouble wrapping my head around you knowing what youre talking about, if the person youre describing cant know what youre talking about.
I feel like I'm in one of those old Star Trek episodes with one of those impossible circular arguments.
I ask because I had this sense with my ex, and I get it with you every once in a blue moon, that there is a sliver of experience that you have of the very thing you say a N cant experience. My sense of my partner is, like a gust of cold wind blowing through the gap on the floor below a locked door, intimacy, empathy, love, care invades, in a very small but noticeable way, only to disappear as quickly as it came, leaving behind no evidence.
I have this sense you do know what intimacy feels like, that my ex might have felt empathy, but it is so brief and so quickly murdered or deliberately annihilated that its forgotten and unclaimed.
What do you think?
My experience was actually the opposite. That while my ex partner was all about controlling the sexual experience with me (which meant I always got ALL his attention until he was satisfied I was satisfied), the actions became less like a spine tingling thriller and more normalized and romantic as time went on.
For sure the strongest sex organ is the brain, but I wouldnt pathologize EVERYONE whose sexual tastes run a little right or left of whats considered “normal”. In fact, I think we do a disservice to ourselves sexually if we only validate missionary in the dark on a Saturday night after the 11 o’clock news only after theres been lots of romantic foreplay.
I think the parts of us that CAN be sexually entertained, excited and fulfilled by things that are more about our creativity, our shadow selves, or our alteregos can make for a healthy, varied, stimulating intimate relationship.
Thats not to say I’m not more than a little mortified at the truth that rings true in my experience that psychopaths are incredibly exciting sexual partners.
holy crow…ummm…yeah
but at what cost?
I wouldnt pathologize EVERYONE whose sexual tastes run a little right or left of whats considered “normal”.
Oh HELL, NO WAY!! (If i did THAT I would have to award myself the entire DSM IV TR, the ICD 10 AND a couple of veterinary textbooks AS WELL…)
Let’s say that when I talk about sex “it ain’t about what you do, it’s the way that you do it”.
Please let me qualify that further and say that whether in the missionary position, strapped to an A frame, or even as a participant in a party of 10…for the psychopath it is all about performance and control, not participation and communication…
GD
I think that one does not have to experience something in order to write
about it authoritatively.
Psychiatrists write textbooks about psychosis even though they are not
psychotic, or schizophrenic-paranoid.
Therapists treat people with a variety of mental health problems even if
they have never experienced these problems first-hand.
Why can’t a narcissist write about intimacy, based on external data?
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6590@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] in my unrelated research I came across this
I think it may be because I dont speak as an authority on anything I dont have experience with.
And as you’ve seen me demonstrate on this board (and of stories from my real life), THAT authority is unshakeable for me. Its the only thing I can speak about with 100% certainty.
Thats me though, I recognize thats not you, or the people who try and tell me something different about myself.
I’m not discounting what psychiatrists (or any other scientist writes), as much as I accept the difference between believing given the evidence, and knowing from first hand experience.
You come across as knowing more than believing on some things. And the quote I pasted was one of those that sounded knowing.
Sam,
If you say so dear, if you say so…
Ciao
GD
rolling eyes
Knowing and believing are only 2 modes of relating to reality.
There’s also the scientific method. It is not about knowing (because it
assumes that we can approach knowledge but never attain it) and it is not
about believing. It is about observing, hypothesizing, experimenting, and
theorizing.
Read these about psychoanalysis as a scientific theory:
http://samvak.tripod.com/psychoanalysis.html
Sam
PS:
If you think that you KNOW anything about yourself with 100% certainty, then
clearly you know very little about the human condition.
----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6590@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] in my unrelated research I came across this
That must be why people go to Priests for marriage counselling?
Or to narcissists to learn about narcissism …:o))
----- Original Message -----
From: “wahela” npd-cpt6590@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] in my unrelated research I came across this