Jesus Christ, narcissist

Narcissistic personality disorder
#46

I consider Sam very lucky to be allowed the space and opportunity here to continue writing things that dont have value to us.

And I dare say, I’m looking forward to the day that Sam might write something fictional, or not, that actually supports and encourages beautiful and good and lovely things in life instead of always harping on the doom and gloom of destructive narcissism.

I havent read this Jesus Christ essay. I dont intend to, nor read much of anything else Sam posts. What he did write a good number of years ago that I did find useful was enough for me.

I’m more interested in the other people here who have worthwhile things to post, like their recovery, their hope, their successes because THATS where the good stuff is.

And after having been in a relationship with a N/ASP, I’ve had more than my life’s share of negativity, cynicism and childish tantrums.

Bring on the beauty baby!

#47

What about my fiction and poetry? Why won’t you read those?

What about my recent writings about RECOVERY from relationships with
narcissists? MOST of my writing is 2 years old - so, you have missed on 85%
of it (at least!)

Aren’t you misrepresenting my writings by singling out one aspect of them
and ignoring (or refusing to get acquainted with) all others?

You don’t know what you are missing!

(pouting)

Surviving the Narcissist

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq80.html

How Victims are Affected by Abuse - Recovery and Healing

http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily23.html

Victims of domestic violence (battering), spousal abuse, emotional, verbal,
psychological, and financial abuse - hope you find these new tip sheets
useful:

What is Abuse?

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse.html

I. The Gradations of Abuse

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse1.html

II. The Guilt of the Abused - Pathologizing the Victim

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse2.html

III. Coping with Your Abuser

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse3.html

IV. The Abuser in Denial

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse4.html

V. Avoiding Your Abuser - The Submissive Posture

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse5.html

VI. Avoiding Your Abuser - The Conflictive Posture

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse6.html

VII. The Tocsins of Abuse - How to Spot an Abuser on Your First Date

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse7.html

VIII. The Tocsins of Abuse - The Abuser’s Body Language

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse8.html

IX. The Path to Abuse

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse9.html

X. Ambient Abuse

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse10.html

XI. Abuse by Proxy

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse11.html

XII. Leveraging the Children

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse12.html

XIII. Tell Your Children the Truth

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse13.html

XIV. The Relief of Being Abandoned

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse14.html

XV. How to Cope with Your Paranoid Ex

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse15.html

XVI. Avoiding Your Paranoid Ex

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse16.html

XVII. The Three Forms of Closure

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse17.html

XVIII. Coping with Stalking and Stalkers

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse18.html

XIX. Getting Help

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse19.html

XX. Domestic Violence Shelters

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse20.html

XXI. Planning and Executing Your Getaway

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse21.html

XXIa. Should You Get the Police Involved?

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse21a.html

XXIb. Should You Get the Courts Involved?

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abuse21b.html

Danse Macabre - The Dynamics of Intimate Partner Abuse

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily.html

II. The Mind of the Abuser

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily2.html

III. Condoning Abuse

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily3.html

IV. The Anomaly of Abuse

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily4.html

V. Reconditioning the Abuser

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily5.html

VI. Reforming the Abuser

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily6.html

VII. Contracting with Your Abuser

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily7.html

VIII. Your Abuser in Therapy

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily8.html

IX. Testing the Abuser

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily9.html

X. Conning the System

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily10.html

XI. Befriending the System

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily11.html

XII. Working with Professionals

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily12.html

XIII. Interacting with Your Abuser

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily13.html

XIV. Coping with Your Stalker

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily14.html

XV. Statistics of Abuse and Stalking

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily15.html

XVI. The Stalker as Antisocial Bully

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily16.html

XVII. Coping with Various Types of Stalkers

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily17.html

XVIII. The Erotomanic Stalker

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily18.html

XIX. The Narcissistic Stalker

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily19.html

XX. The Psychopathic (Antisocial) Stalker

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily20.html

XXI. How Victims are Affected by Abuse

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily21.html

XXII. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily22.html

XXIII. Recovery and Healing from Trauma and Abuse

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily23.html

XXIV. The Conflicts of Therapy

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily24.html

Take care,

Sam Vaknin
Author of “Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited”

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/thebook.html

#48

Thank you for being there. I am learning a lot from all of you!

You can’t imagine how much I appreciate our interactions.

Read this:

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq42.html

#49

Sam, one of the most valuable things I got from your confessional was your adamant advice to to turn away and never look back.

And thats what I’ve done with your writing too it seems. I took what was valuable to me, and I’m leaving all the rest.

I publicly thanked you for MSL in another forum. That should be good enough I think.

Its my form of NC. Reading it only keeps me steeped in the negativity and hatred that I’ve had more than enough of in being with my ex. NPD is an “infection”, I’m more interested in “antibiotics” now than reading more writing from another N who himself has no hope. Surely thats understandable.

I’m ready for a change now. I might not be alone in that.

#50

I wholeheartedly wish you the best. I made it my life’s work to warn victims
against narcissists. I was the first to do so and I am proud that my work
has borne fruit (and so many imitators …:o)).

#51

Sam, 

 You wrote: WHO wrote the essay is irrelevant. The only thing relevant is what the essay CONTAINS.

 

Again, as we read and comprehend words, we attach meaning to them (that is OUR truth), but there is no one way to define "Truth".

Should we use the constructivist theory which holds that truth is constructed by social processes, is historically and culturally specific, and that it is in part shaped through the power struggles within a community. (sounds like the bible to me)

Or perhaps the consensus theory which holds that truth is whatever is agreed upon, or in some versions, might come to be agreed upon, by some specified group. (that appears to be the way some of us on this website feel)

The theory that i think most of us adhere to is the pragmatist theory and that states we hold in common that truth is verified and confirmed by the results of putting one's concepts into practice.

There are other theories of "truth", but no one seems to agree upon which is the correct version.  As for me, i tend to disregard events that occurred 2,000 years ago that were interpreted by different men who lived during that time as my "truth".   Whether or not Jesus was a narcissist holds no emotion for me either way and, quite frankly, i really don't care one way or the other.  I am interested in the present and trying to understand myself and others as i journey through life. 

Again, as i have done in the past, i do not mean to offend any one of you with my thoughts.

 

 

#52

As clearly you are somewhat versed in philosophy (as am I, my doctorate is
in philosophy), I was referring to the ad hominem fallacy.

Attacking the messenger instead of arguing with the message is a logical
fallacy.

It has NOTHING to do with the question of truth.

By the way, you may find these of interest:

http://philosophos.tripod.com

Take care.

Sam

#53

Sam what is you said about Mamolie is so NOT necessary and NOT TRUE, personal attacks like what you said is just showing us that we cannot take you or what you say as anything besides you are an N. And again, I am feeding into your NS by replying! My magical thinking that maybe just once, you will see that was not nice and served no purpose and that maybe you could rise above your crap and do something about it… You don’t have to agree with me but please take that crap and bring it somewhere else, mamolie has done nothing to you and she did not deserve to have your inner shit dumped on her.

And don’t N’s also seek out people who they wish for and long for??? In that case, Mamolie is beautiful, loving, caring, and everything a N longs for and wishes he could be. So please take your evil personal attacks and save them and try to hold them in. I know that you are getting your NS and you feel better by attacking Mamolie and others, but really… that was way low and you just proved so much… you may not have empathy and regard for others, but try to muster up something and please save your insults.

And, I might add, I am not a Man but I find Mamolie quite beautiful, INSIDE AND OUT… so sam, that is great that she is not your type. WHAT DID YOU GET OUT OF SAYING THAT? and posting that? Are you going to paste another link in here telling me? Please save it! I don’t need anything link from you. I am just saying that you did not need to say those things about Mamolie and I am going to have a RAGEFUL TEMPER TANTRUN AND LASH OUT at you… I had so many hateful things to say to you but I will save them as they may offend the other women on this site and they would not be nice words, but I will say this… I AM SO GLAD that I AM NOT YOU and DO NOT LIVE IN YOUR WORLD! I am so glad that I HAVE EMPATHY and can escape NPD!!! I am in the world and a relationship with someone with NPD but guess what I HAVE A CHOICE and I am learning that I can and will find something else with or without my N… YOU HOWEVER WILL NEVER ESCAPE UNTIL YOU DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF! I hope that you do and I hope that you have at least one day in your life where you are recovered from the hell of having NPD becasue it seems like a sad place to be and I don’t think that you like living this hell, you just aren’t man enough to do anything besides making money off your mental disorder, NOW, I think that is like a total victim too. grow up and take your crap and learn from it… seriously, use your shitty life and pain for good and not for hurting others!

What are you getting out of posting on this site? Please leave insight but don’t go out of your way to hurt others.

I think we all need to only respond to sam when he has something relavant to say and not feed into his NS like I just did…

MAMOLIE, HUGS TO YOU AND I THINK YOU ARE GREAT and I am almost 100% confident that every other woman here thinks so too!

So sam, I know you don’t agree but guess what… you are getting older, not changing… so what are you doing to do in your old age? are you going to write a book about how sad you are that you never did anything to help yourself and now you are alone and sad sitting in a house off the money you made from declaring yourself an incurable NPD? wow… how sad… you could grow old and write a book about how you cured the worst case of NPD and how you saved yourself and how you felt like you lived some happy days and see that it was worth the hard work. But N’s are incurable… I know… how sad.

Sam, what is worse, I have read that you have attacked people who HAD NPD who were healed… that is sad… are you jeaous that they found some happy days after people told them they were incurable? I say that is great that they did and they did the hard awful work it takes and lived some really great days in their lives and overcame the N in themselves and from what I read, for themselves…

again…
I think we all need to only respond to sam when he has something relavant to say and not feed into his NS like I just did… I suck and am still learning!

SAM, Please save me from my hell of catering to the N’s in my life! How sad and pathetic I am… oh that is right… you told me that you give up on me and there is no hope for me. forget it… just ignore this post or post some links in response.

Hope you all have a great day and lots of Hugs and kisses and HOPE to find peace dealing with the NPD in your life!

#54

Attacking (or dismissing) the messenger is what happens, I think, when the messenger has ruined other people’s regard for him through his own attacks.

Once burned twice shy

or is it

best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour?

Actually, now that I think about it, dont you have a chapter about how a N finds himself all alone after awhile because everyone turns away from him after having started to see the real him?

I imagine thats a painful experience for anyone to have. That saddens me.

#55

Glad I could get SOMEONE to smile around here!

You are all so HEAVY, SERIOUS, and BROODING!

Lighten up, guys!

I’ll let you in on a secret:

The BEST weapon against a narcissistic abuser is …

DRUMROLL

HUMOR!!!

Read these:

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq52.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/selfdeprecation.html

Phew!!!

Sam

#56

There is so much emotion involved in all of this for most of us. We have cried many tears… mamolie especially has done this… for over 40 years! That is unfathomable for me to imagine. I have only been involved, albeit ostensibly, for 18 months, but this has driven me crazy in even that short amount of time. I cannot imagine a lifetime of this! i think we need to understand that the purpose of this forum is to support, not attack.

mamolie can hold her own and doesn’t need any of us to argue on her behalf. Wisely, she knows how futile it is to get into a “headlock” with a narcissist and she doesn’t do that. Smart woman is she…

This forum has given me STRENGTH on a daily basis. I cannot begin to tell all of you, including the N’s here, how much i learn from you each day. i read, analyze and apply your stories and wisdom to my own situation and that, along with my therapist, have helped me to somewhat extricate myself from a painful situation. my N asked me out for Saturday (last night) and i turned him down. Not with emotion, but with MY truth: our connection is not as strong, much to his doing, but partially from me as well. we don’t see each other as often and our daily phone calls are brief and meaningless to me. the conversation is usually for him to tell me something he has done and then he waits for my reply. not enough to keep me feeling good about him anymore.

when we spoke and i declined his request for a date, it was a good conversation. he couldn’t argue it… nor could he defend against it. he still lurks, but i feel strong… with all of your support.

keep the faith.

#57

good point Lucia!

#58

Sam,

I am here to say, I know how much you are in pain… My dad went through hell…WW II (PTSD), absent father, alcoholic abusive father, gay/ epileptic brilliant brother who SHOT himself in the head, Somantic brilliant N brother, N mother in F***** UP DENIAL, severely handicapped gay brother… He HAS to abuse me…He
doesn’t know any better…Until now… I have LAY DOWN THE LAW WITH THEM…ALL OF THEM…Do you hear me?? DOES IT MATTER TO YOU? ARE YOU PROUD SAM? DO YOU FEEL THIS EMAIL?? OR YOU CAN’T FEEL IT?

I really like you Sam…You are a really intuitive … “The narcissist was conditioned - from an early age of abuse and trauma - to expect the unexpected. His was a world in motion where (sometimes sadistically) capricious caretakers and peers often engaged in arbitrary behaviour. He was trained to deny his True Self and nurture a False one.” Sam Vakin

#59

One thing on JC I wish you would pass on the the group.  It is hard to know as facts anything about Jesus except that he was born and was crucified, but I do think from his actions and Matthew 25, John 10 and John 13:34 as well as many other verses that he deeply cared about everyone.  A narcissist does not even care about himself or if he does he is the only one he cares about.  How utterly disgusting and offensive to suggest Jesus was narcissistic.

Thank you.

#60

Blixen, I cannot help but wonder that Sam has a desire to self sabotage.

#61

How utterly disgusting and offensive to suggest Jesus was narcissistic.

Sam:

“Disgusting” and “offensive” is irrelevant.

Is the essay inaccurate? Can you point to any errors? I would be indebted to
you. If there are any errors, I would like to fix them before this essay
hits the international media, as it is slated to do soon.

#62

Sam,

This is me you are talking to now.

You know perfectly well the essay was disgusting and offensive, that is the only reason why you wrote it.

AND THEN went on to hammer people who objected to it as being adverse to free speech…

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Narcissistic_Personality_Disorder/message/13946

…when all the time every forum connected with you, since listbot in 1998, has been rigidly censored to exclude and manipilate every trace of challenge or criticism of your agenda.

You realise that your hold on online pseudo psychology is waning, so you wanted to either revive it, or shoot yourself so thoroughly in the foot that you never have to face the reality of your own real life, total lack of “genius” and omnipotence.

So, the most hurtful and offensive, to the greatest number of people, thing you could think of:
“Jesus Christ, Narcissist”

GD

#63

Absolutely and totally Susiejo…

Because when he self-sabotages in time he is never really confronted with the reality of his moderately above average intelligence (as opposed to genius), his small, undisciplined talent for writing short fiction (as opposed to “great author and scholar status”), his personal insignificance and failure (as opposed to “omnipotence and success”) , nor indeed any of the aspects of his reality that do not suit him (ie most of them).

That would just be rather sad, if he wasn’t so genuinely nasty and unscrupulous with others.

GD

#64

Jesus Christ Superstar, who in the hell do you think you are?? I guess Andrew Lloyd Weber thought so
too…A JOKE??? As Sam says, CAN WE LIGHTEN UP HERE FOLKS??? Lets move on from Jesus… Jesus is just all right with me…Oh yea… Doobie Brothers…

Jesus, if he is listening… most likely hopes that US WOMEN MOVE ON…From narcissists and ANY abusers…THEY SUCK…

SAM, you knew you would get the juices FLOWIN’ with that one… Trust me, my Atheist brother
LOVES to knock religion…He thinks everyone is dumb and weak who believes in such nonsense… But the crazy part about him is he WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY ARGUMENT… Perhaps HE IS MORE THE
NARCISSIST THAN MY BROTHER, THE EAGLE STEALER?

#65

Well that is really nice Bup,

Cos he didn’t manage to offend you, or me…but he DID offend, hurt and upset a lot of sincere people of real faith in a very deep part or themselves…just to amuse himself and get his own way.

That may be all right with you, but it certainly isn’t all right with me.

GD