Thanks Sam,
as I said I dont really care what my ex is, I’m staying here to talk about recovery and support. I’m just always happy and relieved, when I’m sad and feeling soft feelings about my ex, that I get a reminder…any reminder…that my quality of life is so much better without him fucking it up for his benefit.
'know what I mean?
Sure do. And I FULLY agree with you. WHO CARES what HIS diagnosis is, was,
or will be? Waste of time. If he is an abuser - WALK AWAY! Run for your life
and sanity!
Sam
Phoenix:
Thanks Sam,
as I said I dont really care what my ex is, I’m staying here to talk about
recovery and support. I’m just always happy and relieved, when I’m sad and
feeling soft feelings about my ex, that I get a reminder…any
reminder…that my quality of life is so much better without him fucking it
up for his benefit.
'know what I mean?
Sam said,
By the way, the DSM Committee strongly disagrees with Hare’s work and
refuses to accept the PCL-R as a valid test.
However, on my planet, DSM III used a cut down version of the PCL R as part of the criteria for Psychopathy and the screening version of the PCL-R was used as the field trial for ASPD for DSM-IV.
It is still fundamentally the same test, but hese days the two factors of the PCL-R have branched into factors 1 & 2, a & b. 1a and 1b correlate most closely NPD and HPD, factors 2a and 2b correlate most closely ASPD.
…and there is still NO SUCH THING as a “Narcissistic Psychopath”.
It’s worse ye’re getting Sam.
GD
Blitzen, would you clarify something for me please?
You said:The full PCL-R test is a long and complex thing...howsomever, in ANY form, it tests exclusively for Psychopathy, not NPD.
and then you said:It is still fundamentally the same test, but hese days the two factors of the PCL-R have branched into factors 1 & 2, a & b. 1a and 1b correlate most closely NPD and HPD, factors 2a and 2b correlate most closely ASPD.
So NPD is or isnt part of the test?
Oh, forget Gaye. She doesn’t have a clue. Copy-pasting is all she knows how
to do, and she often copy-pastes from the wrong sources (laughing).
PCL-R tests for a few VARIANTS of psychopathy. One of them is the callous or
narcissistic psychopath (described extensively by Elsa Ronningstam).
PCL-R does NOT test for NPD.
PCL-R DOES test for psychopathy with a NARCISSISTIC OVERLAY (traits,
behaviors, and tendencies).
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “thephoenix101” npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality
Sam,
thank you thats very clear.
Another caring thread…with some interesting misinformation courtesy of Sam Vaknin.
GD
Some of these responses violate the forum guidelines. I have and will continue to remove people from the group who violate them. The past drama is over and isn’t a topic for discussion here and will result in immediate removal from this group.
Most narcissists have first-hand experience of abuse. They just decide to
react to abuse by becoming abusers themselves. They sort of identify with
their abuser and internalize her. Kind of a magnified Stockholm Syndrome
(Trauma Bonding).
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “ThePhoenixxx” npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality
The Demise Of The Expert And The Ascendance Of The Layman
In the age of Web 2.0, authoritative expertise is slowly waning. The layman
reasserts herself as a fount of collective mob “wisdom”. Information -
unsorted, raw, sometimes wrong - substitutes for structured, meaningful
knowledge. Gatekeepers - intellectuals, academics, scientists, and editors,
publishers, record companies, studios - are summarily and rudely dispensed
with. Crowdsourcing (user-generated content, aggregated for commercial ends
by online providers) replaces single authorship.
A confluence of trends conspired to bring about these ominous developments:
An increasingly narcissistic culture that encourages self-absorption,
haughtiness, defiance of authority, a sense of entitlement to special
treatment and omniscience, incommensurate with actual achievements.
Narcissistic and vain Internet users feel that they are superior and reject
all claims to expertise by trained professionals.
The emergence of technologies that remove all barriers to entry and allow
equal rights and powers to all users, regardless of their qualifications,
knowledge, or skills: wikis (the most egregious manifestation of which is
the Wikipedia), search engines (Google), blogging (that is rapidly
supplanting professionally-written media), and mobiles (cell) phones
equipped with cameras for ersatz documentation and photojournalism.
Disintermediation rendered redundant all brokers, intermediaries, and
gatekeepers of knowledge and quality of content.
A series of species-threatening debacles by scientists and experts who
collaborated with the darkest, vilest, and most evil regimes humanity has
ever produced. This sell-out compromised their moral authority and standing.
The common folk began not only to question their ethical credentials and
claim to intellectual leadership, but also to paranoidally suspect their
motives and actions, supervise, and restrict them. Spates of scandals by
scientists who falsified lab reports and intellectuals who plagiarized
earlier works did nothing to improve the image of academe and its denizens.
By its very nature, science as a discipline and, more particularly,
scientific theories, aspire to discover the “true” and “real”, but are
doomed to never get there. Indeed, unlike religion, for instance, science
claims no absolutes and proudly confesses to being merely asymptotic to the
Truth. In medicine, physics, and biology, today’s knowledge is tomorrow’s
refuse. Yet, in this day and age of maximal uncertainty, minimal personal
safety, raging epidemics, culture shocks and kaleidoscopic technological
change, people need assurances and seek immutables.
Inevitably, this gave rise to a host of occult and esoteric “sciences”,
branches of “knowledge”, and practices, including the fervid observance of
religious fundamentalist rites and edicts. These offered alternative models
of the Universe, replete with parent-figures, predictability, and primitive
rituals of self-defense in an essentially hostile world. As functional
literacy crumbled and people’s intellectual diet shifted from books to
reality TV, sitcoms, and soap operas, the old-new disciplines offer instant
gratification that requires little by way of cerebral exertion and critical
faculties.
Moreover, scientific theories are now considered as mere “opinions” to be
either “believed” or “disbelieved”, but no longer proved, or, rather
falsified. In his novel, “Exit Ghost”, Philip Roth puts this telling
exclamation in the mouth of the protagonist, Richard Kliman: “(T)hese are
people who don’t believe in knowledge”.
The Internet tapped into this need to “plug and play” with little or no
training and preparation. Its architecture is open, its technologies basic
and “user-friendly”, its users largely anonymous, its code of conduct
(Netiquette) flexible and tolerant, and the “freedoms” it espouses are
anarchic and indiscriminate.
The first half of the 20th century was widely thought to be the terrible
culmination of Enlightenment rationalism. Hence its recent worrisome retreat
. Moral and knowledge relativism (e.g., deconstruction) took over.
Technology obliged and hordes of “users” applied it to gnaw at the edifice
of three centuries of Western civilization as we know it.
By: Sam Vaknin
Article Directory: http://www.articledashboard.com
Sam Vaknin ( samvak.tripod.com ) is the author of Malignant Self Love -
Narcissism Revisited and After the Rain - How the West Lost the East. He
served as a columnist for Central Europe Review, Global Politician,
PopMatters, eBookWeb , and Bellaonline, and as a United Press International
(UPI) Senior Business Correspondent. He was the editor of mental health and
Central East Europe categories in The Open Directory and Suite101. Visit
Sam’s Web site at samvak.tripod.com
----- Original Message -----
From: “ThePhoenixxx” npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality
Deaden the mind…in order to protect the abuser…That is the
definition being a victim …I battled with this
all my life…I would protect them through my better judgement every
single time just for one ounce of unconditional love, which I never received.
And never will.
From: ThePhoenixxx npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
Date: 2008/03/23 Sun AM 11:57:49 CDT
To: averilsb@verizon.net
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality
we dishonour our intellect
when we dont honour our nature
it amazes me that animals can avoid death in disaster because they flee to higher ground the day before a tsunami hits
while humans in all our hubris
get washed away
we have instinct
we have intuition
we have the ability to learn and use everything we need to know
but we deaden ourselves to our own nature
in sacrifice to the mind
Bup,
I dont know what to say, I’ve had that experience to. It was soul killing, it was a form of self-mutilation that I dont hope we ever revisit.
Hi, Phoenix,
I am a rather stereotypical narcissist. But my book - Malignant Self Love -
Narcissism Revisited (now in its eighth, revised, impression) and the
content of my Web site:
http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com
are based on correspondence since 1996 with hundreds of people suffering
from the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (narcissists) and with thousands
of their family members, friends, therapists, and colleagues.
Pathological narcissism is a reaction to prolonged abuse and trauma in early
childhood or early adolescence. The source of the abuse or trauma is
immaterial - the perpetrators could be parents, teachers, other adults, or
peers. Pampering, smothering, spoiling, and “engulfing” the child are also
forms of abuse - see these:
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/narcissismglance.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/journal42.html
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php/type/doc/id/419
I wrote about my childhood here:
Nothing is Happening at Home
http://gorgelink.org/vaknin/wronghome-en.html
The Butterflies are Laughing
http://gorgelink.org/vaknin/butterflies-en.html
Janusz Courts Dina
http://gorgelink.org/vaknin/janus-en.html
Take care.
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: “ThePhoenixxx” npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality
Sam,
I’m not sure what you’re getting at since you’re not being clear. If you felt what Iwas writingwas a criticism of you then you’re mistaken. I edited the wording to be more precise.
If you, like Gaye Dalton are accusing me of being Theresa Reynolds/Courage/??? then we have aproblem.
I am me…not Theresa.
In my soul I’m an artist always have been. I have learned inmy lifetime how to be a mother, how to be a teacher and have done therapist training, although (I’ll restate this for perhaps the 6th time now) I dont work as a therapist, I use my training in the career I already love and feel impactful in.
What any of that has to do with my thoughts and feelings about knowledge coming from experience I’m not sure, but feel free to spell it out for me.
I’m not looking for conflict, I was, in fact, supporting and affirming other Nsurvivors experiences and knowledge.
Sam, are you the survivor of a N? I know you claim childhood abuse, but would you say your mother was a N? Then maybe you know what I am talking about, without having to confirm it in your scholarly research?
thats all I’m contributing at this moment.
then sadly, maybe you understand what I was saying
Sam:
Regarding my mother, she surely was mentally ill (read the short fiction I
referred you to), but:
Only a qualified mental health diagnostician can determine whether someone
suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and this, following
lengthy tests and personal interviews. Click on these links to learn more:
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq34.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/1.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/npdglance.html
CURIOUS! I haven’t posted here in a while, what happened? Who’s post was erased and why?
Mariel Lee
I am off to Easter with my #1 abuser, daddy…We will see how this goes!
All his “favorites”…Easter…Religious and a Holiday
Ouch!..Children…Yuck!..at my in-law’s country club which is
Catholic…Double yuck!!..Not being in control and able to talk
about atheism…Don’t know what he is going to do or say…But I
have my armor on…and I am ready to be Joan of Arc at any given turn. I
will not let him make snide, ambient remarks to me…I will just walk
away…I look beautiful, as I always have, and I am intelligent, as I have
always been…My soul is the most stunning part of my body…It
glistens…It will never be stolen by another human being.
From: ThePhoenixxx npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
Date: 2008/03/23 Sun PM 12:57:30 CDT
To: averilsb@verizon.net
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality
Sam,
I’m not sure what’s going on here. I feel like we’re speaking different languages to one another. I’m not understanding anything of what youre getting at, and I dont see any direct responses to anything I’ve said.
Would you be so kind as to tell me what your points are, what you want me to understand thats in relation to what I posted? I dont want to give up yet on you having something engaging to contribute.
Otherwise this isn’t really a conversation and we’re not engaging in any meaningful dialogue with each other…not for me, not for you.