Victim Mentality

Narcissistic personality disorder
#41

Many narcissists have obsessive-compulsive traits:

http://samvak.tripod.com/compulsiveobsessive.html

Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders29.html

The Obsessive-Compulsive Patient - A Case Study

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders55.html

But the narcissist’s lying also has to do with other psychodynamic elements,
most notably his grandiosity and antisocial tendencies:

The Narcissist and Psychopath as Criminals

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/5003

The Narcissist is Above the Law

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4983

The Narcissist as Liar and Con-man

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4951

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “smg” npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality

#42

exactly right - they CANT be pushed

and youre also right, THEY have to decide, in their own time, what they will do

not only is that right, but its so important

so we agree on these two things - awesome!

and I say, when the time comes that they decide their grieving ends…all stages of their grief, not just the sadness, but the anger too (and for some survivors that takes years) then they dont evade their responsibility by still saying “that was not a normal relationship, that guy was abusive, I think that guy was likely disordered”, they actually have clear boundaries

theyre saying in those very words, if you listen very closely theyre saying “I recognized behaviour I chose not to tolerate, I took responsibility for myself and I decided not to stay”

or maybe they did stay and they were abandoned , in which case they took responsibility for their own healing and getting back to normal.

Making sense of a partner whose abusive behaviour was nonsensical is one small part of the process for a survivor who loved with all her heart. The label makes no difference really. It only serves to clear away the confusion so they can get on with the business of healing. No survivor when asked will say “I liked being victimized, I like the label of victim, I want to think of myself as a victim for the rest of my life, I think this is what I wanted my whole life - to finally be the victim I knew I was.”

A human being wants to be healthy. We’re like those blowup toys from when I was a kid, that you could punch over and they would always right themselves and stand straight again. Every SURVIVOR you talk to is struggling to do whatever it takes to come back right side up again. Its human nature. Its a N’s nature. We dont like pain, we dont like crisis, we dont like tragedy, we dont like abuse or abandonment…we dont want to die. We just want the pain to stop so we can get back to normal.

Thats one of the amazing and beautiful things about human beings. Life can deliver any means of pain and suffering, and we’ll claw our way back to normal over and over again. Thats responsibility Nature gives us…its part of human nature. Ask any survivor here (if they’ll respond) and they’ll all tell you…

thats why theyre here, theyre exercising their ability to claw their way back to normal.

so really…youre preaching to the converted.

the only difference is, now we’re both agreed they have to do it in their own time, they cant be rushed, even by well meaning scolding parent types.

#43

I am starting to feel less violated. When I found out about the
family heirloom being sold behind my back, I literally almost thought
I was a goner. Now I know how pathetic a situation it was and how
only people that have no empathy or regard for other people’s
feelings would conduct such a disgraceful act. But the emotion of
"rape" or “pillaging” hurts a great deal. I was not raped or
pillaged but I was imprisoned and devalued, which is the worst
feeling you can imagine. Imagine the feeling of being in a cell and
watching this transaction take place with no control, no voice. MY
heritage ignored, 39 years of memories ignored, sense of community
ignored, my sisterhood ignored, my femininity ignored, my voice
ignored, my importance as a human being ignored. They locked me up
and wanted to throw away the key. And they thought that it was OK to
do because they are above the law and men. And MEN without LAWS are
truly evil. And they knew they could deem my power/voice as
insignificant, if I did indeed find out. When I did, I felt as big
as a gnat and they KNEW they could manipulate me to feeling like a
abused little girl who sits in the corner and takes the abuse and
cries silently.

And my brother used the money to pay off his TV and Bed debt the
MONTH his child was born. He couldn’t imagine his life with a new
child with out a projector screen tv that came out of the ceiling,
because materialism is more important to him than raising a child.
Imagine MAKING those payments, knowing you treated someone in your
family with such DEMORALIZING indifference to write the check. And
THEN to make it worse, twisting the story and manipulating the story,
so that my brother looked like a “WINNER OF THE LOTTERY”. And how
AMAZING an eye he has and the cutest grandchild, who DESERVES this
money. Imagine being in a cell with a bandana stuffed in your mouth
and your hands tied behind your back. This is how I felt for 7 months.

Again, it is not about the $50,000. It is about the lies and
deceit, in order to acquire it.

But I do feel free. I have come out of the cage and I am living in a
half way house. But I am finding peace.
I don’t know what my relationship will be with my family members, but
I am at peace. They think I have
gone off the deep end, but WHO PUT ME THERE? WHO PUT ME HERE? My
husband
doesn’t treat me this way…My friends don’t treat me this
way…My mother didn’t treat me this way…
I COULDN’T LIVE with myself if I had done this to my brother. If I
had gotten my hands on something like
that and sold it and felt comfortable lying about it, I would have
written THE TALL TALE HEART with Edgar Allen Poe the first day I
sold it. My heart and soul would be throbbing. I would live in
paranoia. But I guess if you have NPD, you live in paranoia ALWAYS,
so $50,000 richer and all troubles gone for a moment.

On Nov 20, 2007, at 6:54 AM, thephoenix101 wrote:

#44

SMG,

This is some feedback from what I see in your post – no attack meant – just a perspective, take what you like and leave the rest. Ask me if you don’t understand something and maybe I can better explain it.

First, it sounds that the guy does care about you. He wants a relationship. He would like not to lie – he just can’t stop himself when he does. He doesn’t want to hurt you, he doesn’t lie to hurt you, he doesn’t break his deals to hurt you. There is something wrong in his brain beyond his control. Nothing more, nothing less.

You give an example of what I was trying to express earlier. You keep making these deals with this guy wherein he promises not to lie to you. So after the deal, you have the expectation that he will not lie. He does anyway. You than get hurt, and turn around and make the same deal again. And you get hurt again. Your hurt is piling up and you are blaming the guy for that because he just keeps hurting you more and more. So you are in a cycle.

Forget blame. That is not the point. Rather, your personal responsibility comes in this cycle where you know the deal is going to end with you getting hurt, but you keep making the same one over and over again. Stop and think. If you make the deal again, what is going to happen? You know the answer. So you are choosing to get hurt.

Now, you can break up with the guy and stop the cycle.

But there are other options. One is to change your expectation that he will not lie to you and accept that the one thing you can trust about him is that he is not trustworthy, and he will lie.

So when he does lie, you will not get hurt because he did exactly what you expected him to do. The lie might get you in trouble and cause hurt, but his process of lying will not. But knowing his tendency to lie, you will know you need to be skeptical on what you take at face value.

This leads you to a position of accepting who he is. When you do that, you will stop another cycle with him wherein he gets frustrated, desperate, and comes up with defenses trying to hold the relationship together that end with you feeling guilty.

I’ll tell you this. The cycle you are in is only going to ultimately result in the end of your relationship and he may very well be the one who ends it. You are not feeling good in it but neither is he. And those negative feelings and frustrations are building in him just as your hurt feelings are building in you. He will ultimately come to the conclusion that he cannot please you, being involved with you gives him more negative feelings than good, and he will find someone who can accept him and make him feel good.

So next you would say, but I cannot have a relationship with someone who lies. Well, actually you can but such relationships do have big drawbacks.

In my case, the lies were never on important issues for about 30 years. Than his brain dysfunction took a major change to the worst and he began lying about things that were important, such as money. And it continued to get worse, by the time he died, you couldn’t believe most of what came out of his mouth. So I am not recommending this. It is your choice. But I would do anything to have him back. if I had to do it over again, I would still marry him. Would I marry or fall in love with another liar? No way, but his good qualities were worth his bad. Its a choice I made.

In terms of breaking up, you have to decide, and you have to do what is necessary which means it most likely will hurt. But regardless, you make the choice to stay or to go. And you cannot make him responsible for those choices you make, especially at this point since you know he is a liar.

You seem to communicate well with him. I am curious if biofeedback or some kind of triggers could be identified as to when he lies. You two might talk about that.

#45

"If you understood what NPD was (the topic of this board), you would not make some of the statements that you do. One of the distinguishing problems in the disorder is low self esteem. They do not feel great about themselves. Nor is it true they care of no one but themselves. " ~Susiejo

Okie-dokie. Guess I misinterpreted your message then.

Have a great holiday,

CZBZ

#46

SJ,

Yes, I would agree. He lies, and will continue to lie. It took a couple rounds for it to sink in that he is not like other people in my life and that something more is going on, but yes, I get that now. It’s quite clear now. He lies. I won’t be expecting him to be truthful any longer, I will be expecting that he will lie. I’ve only known this man for 16 months. This has been a learning curve. His ex lived with him for 16 years, apparently he raged on and off that whole time w/ her, scared her, scared the kids, nothing physical, just a 43 yr. old man at 180 lbs. having full blown extended temper tantrums. Luckily I am not married to him or living w/ him, I’ve seen glimpses of that, but have not lived it. I suspect his raging would probably make an appearance if we were actually living together or married. If he wants to leave me or break up with me now, it would be a relief. But he does not, he is too needy to leave, he needs me as he has some serious attachment issues. He has no one in his life that loves him or is close to him, I’m it. He has managed to piss off and alientate anyone he’s ever tried to get close to. He can sustain some ongoing superficial relationships, the rest have all gone to hell. So, I have some decisions to make. It is what it is.

peace, smg

#47

SMG,

Don’t stay just because he needs you, either…

There has to be something you need from him enough to sacrifice your need for honesty, otherwise you will only wind up resenting him for it.

There is a bonus though…from the moment you say “Ok, I accept you will always lie, there is no point in trying to change that…would you like coffee?”

EVERYTHING will change for ever…not necessarily in an ideal way, but in a better way…

He may even find that he doesn’t need to lie half as much as he did.

…and you will feel much more in control of your life.

GD

#48

If I called him today and told him I accept that he lies, that he will lie, that he needs to lie from time to time and just tell him I accept that and accept him as he is and stop trying to change him, do you know what he’d do? He’d involve me in a 2 hours mind fuck of a circular discussion with the intention of trying to convince me that he will never lie again and that the lies I have caught him in are not really, technically lies, it’s just that my definition of honesty is different that his definition of honesty, blah blah blah blah blah blah…The person he tries to fool and whom he lies to the most is not me. It’s himself. That, too, is clear.

#49

In “Streetcar Named Desire”, Blanche, the sister in law of Marlon Brando, is
accused by him of inventing a false biography, replete with exciting events
and desperate wealthy suitors. She responds that it is preferable to lead an
imaginary but enchanted life - then a real but dreary one.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal23.html

This is where the narcissist differs from others (from “normal” people).

His very self is a piece of fiction concocted to fend off hurt and to
nurture the narcissist’s grandiosity. He fails in his “reality test” - the
ability to distinguish the actual from the imagined. The narcissist
fervently believes in his own infallibility, brilliance, omnipotence,
heroism, and perfection. He doesn’t dare confront the truth and admit it
even to himself.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal75.html

I lie to your face, without a twitch or a twitter, and there is absolutely
nothing you can do about it. In fact, my lies are not lies at all. They are
the truth, my truth. And you believe them, because you do, because they do
not sound or feel like lies, because to do otherwise would make you question
your own sanity, which you have a tendency to do anyway, because from the
very beginning of our relationship you placed your trust and hopes in me,
derived your energy, direction, stability, and confidence from me and from
your association with me. So what’s the problem if the safe haven I provide
comes with a price? Surely I am worth it and then some.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/kenintro.html

Question:

How can I expose the lies of the narcissist in a court of law? He acts so
convincing!

Answer:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq78.html

The dissolution of the abuser’s marriage or other meaningful (romantic,
business, or other) relationships constitutes a major life crisis and a
scathing narcissistic injury. To soothe and salve the pain of
disillusionment, he administers to his aching soul a mixture of lies,
distortions, half-truths and outlandish interpretations of events around
him.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse14.html

But these lies - both outright and borderline - are known to me as such. I
can tell the difference between reality and fantasy. I choose fantasy
knowingly and consciously - but it doesn’t render me oblivious to my true
condition.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissistreal.html

The narcissist claims to be infallible, superior, talented, skilful,
omnipotent, and omniscient. He often lies and confabulates to support these
unfounded claims. Within his cult, he expects awe, admiration, adulation,
and constant attention commensurate with his outlandish stories and
assertions. He reinterprets reality to fit his fantasies.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal79.html

The narcissist often pretends to know everything, in every field of human
knowledge and endeavour. He lies and prevaricates to avoid the exposure of
his ignorance. He resorts to numerous subterfuges to support his God-like
omniscience.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq3.html

The abuser’s biography sounds unusually rich and complex. His achievements -
incommensurate with his age, education, or renown. Yet, his actual condition
is evidently and demonstrably incompatible with his claims. Very often, the
abuser’s lies or fantasies are easily discernible. He always name-drops and
appropriates other people’s experiences and accomplishments as his own.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse8.html

Yet, deep inside, the narcissist is aware that his life is an artifact, a
confabulated sham, a vulnerable cocoon. The world inexorably and repeatedly
intrudes upon these ramshackle battlements, reminding the narcissist of the
fantastic and feeble nature of his grandiosity. This is the much-dreaded
Grandiosity Gap.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal74.html

The False Self is nothing but a concoction, a figment of the narcissist’s
disorder, a reflection in the narcissist’s hall of mirrors. It is incapable
of feeling, or experiencing. Yet, it is fully the master of the
psychodynamic processes which rage within the narcissist’s psyche.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq39.html

One of the most important symptoms of pathological narcissism (the
Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is grandiosity. Grandiose fantasies
(megalomaniac delusions of grandeur) permeate every aspect of the
narcissist’s personality. They are the reason that the narcissist feels
entitled to special treatment which is typically incommensurate with his
real accomplishments. The Grandiosity Gap is the abyss between the
narcissist’s self-image (as reified by his False Self) and reality.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal91.html

The narcissist then resorts to self-delusion. Unable to completely ignore
contrarian opinion and data - he transmutes them. Unable to face the dismal
failure that he is, the narcissist partially withdraws from reality. To
soothe and salve the pain of disillusionment, he administers to his aching
soul a mixture of lies, distortions, half-truths and outlandish
interpretations of events around him.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal42.html

A Grandiosity Bubble is an imagined, self-aggrandising, narrative involving
the narcissist and elements from his real life - people around him, places
he frequents, or conversations he is having. The narcissist weaves a story
incorporating these facts, inflating them in the process and endowing them
with bogus internal meaning and consistency. In other words: he
confabulates - but, this time, his confabulation is loosely based on
reality.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/grandiositybubbles.html

Question:

Why does the narcissist conjure up another Self? Why not simply transform
his True Self into a False one?

Answer:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq48.html

The irony is that narcissists, who consider themselves worldly, discerning,
knowledgeable, shrewd, erudite, and astute - are actually more gullible than
the average person. This is because they are fake. Their self is false,
their life a confabulation, their reality test gone. They live in a fantasy
land all their own in which they are the center of the universe, admired,
feared, held in awe, and respected for their omnipotence and omniscience.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal68.html

The disparity between the accomplishments of the narcissist and his
grandiose fantasies and inflated self-image - the Grandiosity Gap - is
staggering and, in the long run, insupportable. It imposes onerous
exigencies on the narcissist’s grasp of reality and social skills. It pushes
him either to seclusion or to a frenzy of “acquisitions” - cars, women,
wealth, power.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/grandiositygap.html

The narcissist rarely admits to a weakness, ignorance, or deficiency. He
filters out information to the contrary - a cognitive impairment with
serious consequences. Narcissists are likely to unflinchingly make inflated
and inane claims about their sexual prowess, wealth, connections, history,
or achievements.

All this is mighty embarrassing to the narcissist’s nearest, dearest,
colleagues, friends, neighbours, even on-lookers. The narcissist’s tales are
so patently absurd that he often catches people off-guard. Unbeknownst to
him, the narcissist is derided and mockingly imitated. He fast makes a
nuisance and an imposition of himself in every company.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal59.html

The “modesty” displayed by narcissists is false. It is mostly and merely
verbal. It is couched in flourishing phrases, emphasised to absurdity,
repeated unnecessarily - usually to the point of causing gross inconvenience
to the listener. The real aim of such behaviour and its subtext are exactly
the opposite of common modesty.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq36.html

Question:

Why is there no connection between the behaviour of the narcissist and his
emotions?

Answer:

A better way of putting it would be that there is a weak correlation between
the narcissist’s behaviour and his professed or proclaimed emotions. The
reason is that his emotions are merely professed or proclaimed - but not
felt.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq41.html

Narcissists, like children, have magical thinking. They feel omnipotent.
They feel that there is nothing they couldn’t do or achieve had they only
really wanted to and applied themselves to it.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq45.html

The signs are here, the gestures, the infinitesimal movements that you
cannot control. I lurk. I know that definite look, that imperceptible
twitch, the inevitability of your surrender.

Continue to read this short story here (click on this link):

http://gorgelink.org/vaknin/conman-en.html
----- Original Message -----
From: “smg” npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality

#50

He’d involve me in a 2 hours mind fuck of a circular discussion

Yep, that is a little problem I admit I should have foreseen (and HOW!).

I’d forgotten (?) but the late father of my son was a pathological liar…

He would get SO much mileage out of every lie…when you caught him out he would make a big drama out of “confession and remorse”, then later he would confess that the confession was a lie you forced him into…and so it went on…

He was a chronic alcoholic by the time he was 23…I could tell you stories…sufface to day that he was such a liar and hyperchondriac that when I was told he was dead I called the local coroner to check…

Let’s say it wasn’t his first “demise”…

Anyway, if you feel it is what you want (and only if) you could try agreeing to disagree about how honesty is defined instead?

Tell him straight, you are happy to accept him as he is, but you are NOT prepared to play to him, because that would be bad for him (look up coping strategies for OCD to see what you might mean by this), and impossible for you…

Tell him that is a “take it or leave it” offer…

Then tell him the coffee is getting cold…
GD

#51

he was such a liar and hyperchondriac that when I was told he was dead I called the local coroner to check... Let's say it wasn't his first "demise"

I gott a laugh out of that so thank you! 

#52

blitzen…I looked up coping w/ OCD…this is what I found. The implication being that lying is a compulisive activity and should handled by family members as follows and a means to cope???

Keep cool at home. Use a quiet, calm manner.
Lower expectations temporarily. Compare progress this month to last month, rather than last year or next year. Patient’s progress must be compared to themselves, not others.
Overlook rituals and checking. See these as coping strategies. Don’t participate in rituals.
Don’t be judgmental of the behavior. Accept it as the best the patient can do right now.
Do not pressure the patient to verbalize anxiety (it only makes matters worse).
Help channel energy into activities such as jogging, swimming, and dancing. Activity is more likely to calm the patient down than talking it out.
Allow verbal expression of rage and anger. Listen to what the patient says. Try not to be defensive.
Help the patient develop confidence in his or her own decisions and choices by allowing him or her enough time to make them. Never make decisions for another person (unless a young child) but help the person to make them.
Do not confront the patient with what he or she says or does. Reflect on the feelings behind the action and allow for further discussion.
Do not pressure the patient to stop compulsions, but stick to the time allocated by the therapist. If the patient is not in therapy, then cut down slowly on the time of the activity.
Always explain changes. Make only reasonable demands.
Limits calm things down. Everyone needs to know what the rules are. Set limits on the amount of time he or she talks beyond ten minutes. Conversation beyond ten minutes may not be productive. Do not restrict rituals.
Ignore what you can’t change. Let some things slide. Never ignore violence or suicidal threats.
Say what you have to say clearly, calmly, and in a positive way.
Carry on business as usual. Reconnect with friends, hobbies and family routines.
Watch out for street drugs or alcohol. They make symptoms worse.
Pick up on early negative changes and signs and consult with the patient’s therapist and/or doctor.
Solve problems step-by-step. Make changes gradually. Work on one thing at a time.
Don’t get involved in the behavior therapy program unless asked to do so by the patient and his or her therapist.

#53

Dang!

It’s even more relevant than I thought…

…you are seeing what I see I think…that there may be a relationship between OCD and some kinds of compulsive lying, at least in how they work, if not in how they are caused or motivated?

Though I wouldn’t go as far as to say that lying is a compulsive activity of the same level as the compulsions in OCD, if you decide it is worth your while to try and cope with it, a similar strategy might work very well (and I personally do not see the harm in letting him believe you are doing it because you believe he is lying as a coping skill for crazy, irrational, involuntary obsessions, because believing that might help him “focus” :o) )

What I mostly had in mind was this bit:

Overlook rituals and checking. See these as coping strategies. Don’t participate in rituals.
Don’t be judgmental of the behavior. Accept it as the best the patient can do right now.

Which we translate as:

Overlook lying. See this as a coping strategy. Don’t participate in lying.
Don’t be judgmental of the behavior. Accept it as the best the patient can do right now.

Pretending he isn’t lying would be participating in lying…so you can’t do that…but you can overlook his lying, as long as you feel it is worth your while to do so.

Adapting the OCD strategy would be, mostly, to give you a workable, applicable framework to adhere to that lets you function effectively in spite of him not doing so.

I always find that very helpful myself in tricky, or manipulative, situations.

But beyond that I am always really, really wary of anything that might help a compulsive liar research his next excuse concept - aren’t you?
GD

#54

Just to avoid a pitfall I tumbled into myself lately, can we make the distinction between OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder), which I am talking about:


http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/o-cd.htm

And OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder) which Sam refers to:


http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/o-cpd.htm

They are two totally different conditions with very similar names…like Schizophrenia and Schizoid PD
GD

#55

But beyond that I am always really, really wary of anything that might help a compulsive liar research his next excuse concept - aren't you?

 

No, not really.  I can't live my life worrying about his shit all the time, it is what it is. His mental life and his mental problems are his own. I really just want to put this whole burden down, if he's going to crash and burn, he's going to crash and burn.  As Alanis Morisette sings "it's too much to ask for and I'm not the doctor."

 peace, smg 

#56

Then SMG,

It seems to me that you have arrived at a point where it just isn’t worth it for you any more…

…which probably means it is time to consider saying goodbye for good…and really moving on…because that is what is right for you…even with alternative approaches put in front of you you still really feel you have had enough, and you probably feel that way because it’s true.

The trick is probably to hold that thought while you make the break?
GD

#57

I think right now I don’t really want to DO ANYTHING as it pertains to HIM. I’m tired of always doing something about HIM or in reaction to HIM. I’m not going to do anything right now…not worry, not fret, not wonder, not break up, not pine, not cry, not stay together, not anything…I’m off duty right now where HE is concerned. When I’m rested and/or I am interested in DOING SOMETHING, then I will. But not now. I’m on vacation from HIM. :slight_smile: And with that, I need to go and continue with my day!

peace, smg

#58

The narcissist’s user’s manual has actually been published in 1999. It is
titled “Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited”.

:o))

Sam

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/thebook.html

----- Original Message -----
From: “mamolie” npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality

#59

oh SMG, I’m right there with ya. I’m sick of trying to analyze, dissect and understand my exN anymore.

It doesnt matter for me either, I’m already free from the insanity.

I just want some time right now to beangry, and then to feel sad, and then to not think about it, and then do it again until its all worked out of my system and I can get back to normal.

(sigh) man, I am SO looking forward to normal when it gets here.

And by the way, in this moment, let me just say I’m no victim, however

what happened to me wasnt my fault.

It wasnt my fault.

anyone else care to join me on that particular loveseat today?

#60

Well, phoenix ,

 no it wasn't your fault, or anyone elses how they behave and treat people.

Wouldn't it be nice if they came with a warning tag or booklet. A complete list of problems that you could encounter with them and when they start malfunctioning,you could return them to the store for a complete refund. That way no one gets hurt.

Maybe they could just put tracking devices or tattoo them, like you said, then we would know to stay away, but they don't so , unsuspecting caring, people come in contact with them and get hurt.

We are certainly aware now, but even at that, we have to be careful. They are great actors and even magicians with their slick moves, they can fool you for a little while anyways, but not ever like before. We are armed with knowledge and we know how the trick works now, it is only an illusion, not real.

                                                   Hugs mamolie