Victim Mentality

Narcissistic personality disorder
#81

Liars’ brains make fibbing come naturally

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8075

The brains of pathological liars have structural abnormalities that could make fibbing come naturally.

“Some people have an edge up on others in their ability to tell lies,” says Adrian Raine, a psychologist at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles. “They are better wired for the complex computations involved in sophisticated lies.”

He found that pathological liars have on average more white matter in their prefrontal cortex, the area of the brain that is active during lying, and less grey matter than people who are not serial fibbers. White matter enables quick, complex thinking while grey matter mediates inhibitions.

Raine says the combination of extra white matter and less grey matter could be giving people exactly the right mix of traits to make them into good liars. These are the first biological differences to be discovered between pathological liars and the general population.

#82

Blitzen and Susiejo,
The volume and extent of your research is quite impressive.
How many hours, days, weeks have spend your precious energy on finding out that information?
Now what exactly is your conclusion about, anyone having a relationship with one of this dis functional persons?
What exactly is the point in finding out all the medical whys and psychological if and buts, when after all it comes down to a simple, they don’t care about anyone but them selfs, they are toxic to a relationship, they will suck the love and life out of you and then feel great about them selfs for their accomplishment!
This is the careplace, where we support each others and help and cheer for a better quality of life. At least this is how I understand it.
Our life has been a mental catastrophe, we found out what caused it, we can not undo it, lets get up and rebuild.
Love Gypsy

#83

Blitzen,

My point: Who the hell cares? I believe we all know the dynamics and the malfunctions. I have read all there is to read. I have seen everything from the findings of the Mayo clinic. There is nothing wrong with my forgiving. None of what you are saying brings closure to the wounds our loved ones have inflicted on us. As a matter of fact, being the empathizer that I am, feeling bad for the why’s of people’s behaviors has only crippled my healing, and allows enablement on my part.

#84

Blitzen,

My point: Who the hell cares? I believe we all know the dynamics and the malfunctions. I have read all there is to read. I have seen everything from the findings of the Mayo clinic. There is nothing wrong with my forgiving. None of what you are saying brings closure to the wounds our loved ones have inflicted on us. As a matter of fact, being the empathizer that I am, feeling bad for the why’s of people’s behaviors has only crippled my healing, and allows enablement on my part.

#85

Mariel Lee,

YES, of course. And she knows trhat too, its merely a tactic to provoke arguing.

I dont know about you, but I have better things to do with my time. I’d like debate about worthwhile topics with people who for their own personal reasons really do “care” about the topic and the poeople who, like them, have experienced difficulties because of it.

Youre in good company, its just not all good comapny :slight_smile:

#86

Susiejo,
I will make all the statements here I wish!
I have been living with Ns for 45 years, I earned my knowledge!
You read all the books you want. You sympathize and feel sorry for them as much as you please, after all they need people like you to inflate their super ego even more.
AS for me, I spend my energy on something constructive, like helping men and women like me, to see light at the end of the tunnel. There is a beautiful life out there, ready for the taking.
There a millions of fully functioning and caring individuals that actually appreciate and love being seen and acknowledged. People that love, care, are truthful, loyal and real.
Forgive me, if I am focusing on reaching out to the once that actually need help and know it.

#87

Well Sam, all I can say is that if I “don’t have a clue” GAWD know how much more you don’t have…and even if I did “copy and paste” (I didn’t) it would be a serious improvement on you making it up as you go along.

There is NO SUCH THING as a “Narcissistic Overlay” either. rolling eyes

“Correlates”, as in, “greater similarity to”…the way the word is usually meant…
GD

#88

Gypsy,

If you understood what NPD was (the topic of this board), you would not make some of the statements that you do. One of the distinguishing problems in the disorder is low self esteem. They do not feel great about themselves. Nor is it true they care of no one but themselves. Rather there are problems in their abilities to perform those tasks necessary in intimate caring relationships to express that love.

While not the place to discuss religion, I happen to be a Christian. Pursuit of myself and what feels good to me only, is not in accordance with being a Christian. When my day of judgment comes, it will be about how loving, fair, responsible and caring I was to others, particularly my family. It will not be about how others treated me, nor my pusuits of good feelings for myself only. The point in finding out the truth, is that it is what sets us free.

Learning a label and learning a cause are two different things. If in fact a person has such behaviors due to medical problems, sometimes those problems can be corrected or improved with medical intervention. Sometimes those medical problems can be degenerative and families can be more properly and maturely educated and advised of what to anticipate in the future, so to make better judgments and decisions regarding everyone in the families’ best welfare.

I think there was another board set up specifically for “healing” as defined by telling others only that which they want to hear, maintaining focus only upon oneself, and suppressing divergent perspectives. I thought this board was to remain a discussion board on the topic of NPD and related issues, such that there is room for everyone, including those who deal with NPD caused by medical conditions.

#89

marilee wrote: “Who the hell cares?”

Are you speaking for everyone? Are you speaking for new ones just joining the board?

Any one who is not interested in the findings of the Mayo clinic or any other medical perspective, certainly is not being forced to read the stuff. Anyone is most welcomed when they see a post from Susiejo or Blitxen, to ignore it and not read it. I think everyone however, is suppose to follow the rules of this site and not be degrading, bashing, and bullying of others because they simply do not like their perspectives or topics of posts.

I did not join this forum to heal your wounds and I really do not believe that EVERYONE else joined for that same reason either. Again, you guys set up your own specific forum for “healing”.

What motivates certain of you now to come back to this board and get the same counterproductive old ruckus going again?

Are you guys antagonizing and attacking so to elicit the same back, so you can then take the “victim” position again and cry you were attacked and victimized?

#90

"One of the distinguishing problems in the disorder is low self esteem." ~Susiejo

Have you read some of the new research suggesting narcissist's do not have low self-esteem, but in fact, think very highly of themselves? I found that to be very, very interesting since the trap many of us get ourselves into, is trying to reaffirm the Narcissist's self-esteem. We feel so sorry for the little fellas, you know!

I can find a few links today if there's enough time. About ten people are headed for my house to celebrate Thanksgiving....I'm kinda rushed but wanted to bring this to your attention and ask what you thought.

CZBZ

#91

Czbz,

Others may be interested but I really am not so considering the holiday, do not waste your time on my account. Thank you for the offer anyway.

I am interested in neuroscience and neuropsychology, such articles would not be coming from those fields.

#92

SusieJo,

Do you hear yourself? Who are you to decide anything? I am not here to argue. I read the conversation from this forum, and I am responding to Gypsy’s and CZB’s for starters. Are you a medical doctor? While I think all kinds of information about this disorder, are we still talking about this disorder??? I detected there were other topics also that were being disected; so while I think all kinds of information is pertinent to one’s healing process, I don’t believe that any one of us has the right to disect and determine (without a medical degree) how anyone of us should be feeling. I can’t believe that when I am on a forum, and someone is taking the word “victim” and disecting it and changing it to “victimization” because WHY??? It has the same damn meaning. It’s getting almost nauseating. When I have spoken to you off forum, I do detect a nice person. But I do question both you and Blitzen’s motives. What are they? REally! Like you said, “I did not join this forum to heal your wounds!” I surely hope not. But you did join this forum for something. And my question is W H A T
F O R? Certainly, you’re not learning about the “neuroscience or neuropsychology” from any one of us, it’s you doing all the talking on the subject, you and Blitzen. You both can sit in the corners of your room and do that research by yourself, and so can we. Could it be that you want to hear yourselves talk? Show your knowledgeable attributes? I do believe all of us here are very intelligent men and women. I do believe that we all have done our research. I did believe this was a forum for people who have suffered the affects of living with NPD.

#93

Mariel Lee: You sent me a private message and for some reason it
didn’t go through…Send it again…
I am FASCINATED by your STORY…

On Nov 21, 2007, at 12:12 PM, mariel lee wrote:

#94

To personally respond to the “victim mentality” thing. Victim mentality is in reference to those people who are martyrs and feel that they are victim to everything in life. I most definately was a victim to narcissistic personality disorder, which means by definition, “the injured party.” I NEVER felt that I was a victim to what life bestowed me. I am very strong. I believe that my path in life happened for a reason, and that all the sadness that I had to endure brought me to a better place and more importantly to a better understanding of life in general. I never had victim mentality, and I doubt most here have, however, I will bet my bottom dollar that all of us, excuse me, most of us are willing to say that we have fallen victim to the perpetrator.

#95

What I would say to anyone who is involved with a person with NPD or in any other relationship they are unhappy with is pretty much what I said to SMG on this thread. "Figure out what you want, what you can realistically have, and whether this relationship is worth it to you"

 

Thats exactly right, and I believe what most survivors who are on this forum have already done, perhaps thats notr clear enough for some of you yet.

 

And then we get here, and the question is, now what?  what do we discuss so we can get through the recovery process for a disordered relationship with a disordered person? 

 

And so it would be a considerate and kind thing, to not only analyze, dissect and theorie about N's, most of whm have decided not to participate on this forum anymore, but to be considerate and kind to the people who are still participating rather than discounting what they are saying of their own experience, because that only abuses them more...ahhh yes we've gone around this circular argument before and people complained to the forum admin because more charges against survivors of being exploitive, stupid, misinformed, demonizers took place.

 

I see its taking place again.

 

Thats unfortunate.  I think perhaps another note to admin might be called for, it seems as if for a short while things had started to change, but it seems we find ourselves right back where we were a week ago.

 

...very unfortunate...

#96

Gypsy, you are right.

Question:

Should the narcissist be held accountable for his actions?

Answer:

Narcissists of all shades can usually control their behaviour and actions.
They simply don’t care to, they regard it as a waste of their precious time,
or a humiliating chore. The narcissist feels both superior and entitled -
regardless of his real gifts or achievements. Other people are inferior, his
slaves, there to cater to his needs and make his existence seamless, flowing
and smooth.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq71.html

Question:

Do narcissists feel guilty and if so, do they ever repent?

Answer:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq57.html

Question:

The narcissist is not entirely responsible for his actions. Should we judge
him, get angry at him, be upset by him? Above all, should we communicate to
him our displeasure?

Answer:

The narcissist knows to tell right from wrong. He is perfectly capable of
anticipating the results of his actions and their influence on his human
environment. The narcissist is very perceptive and sensitive to the subtlest
nuances. He has to be: the very integrity of his personality depends upon
input from others.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq13.html

Narcissists are not prone to “irresistible impulses” and dissociation
(blanking out certain stressful events and actions). They more or less fully
control their behavior and acts at all times. But exerting control over
one’s conduct requires the investment of resources, both mental and
physical. Narcissists regard this as a waste of their precious time, or a
humiliating chore. Lacking empathy, they don’t care about other people’s
feelings, needs, priorities, wishes, preferences, and boundaries. As a
result, narcissists are awkward, tactless, painful, taciturn, abrasive and
insensitive.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders49.html

Question:

Am I to blame for my husband’s/child’s/parent’s mental state and behaviour?
Is there anything that I can or should do to help him or to reach him?

Answer:

Self-flagellation is a characteristic of those who choose to live with a
narcissist (for a choice it is). Constant feelings of guilt, self-reproach,
self-recrimination and, thus, self-punishment characterize the relationships
formed between the sadist-narcissist and the masochistic-dependent mate or
partner.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq21.html

Abusers regularly deny the abuse ever took place - or rationalize their
abusive behaviors. Denial is an integral part of the abuser’s ability to
"look at himself/herself in the mirror".

There are many types of denial. When confronted by his victims, most abusers
tend to shift blame or avoid the topic altogether.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/abuse14.html

The dissolution of the abuser’s marriage or other meaningful (romantic,
business, or other) relationships constitutes a major life crisis and a
scathing narcissistic injury. To soothe and salve the pain of
disillusionment, he administers to his aching soul a mixture of lies,
distortions, half-truths and outlandish interpretations of events around
him.

All abusers present with rigid and infantile (primitive) defense mechanisms:
splitting, projection, Projective Identification, denial,
intellectualization, and narcissism. But some abusers go further and
decompensate by resorting to self-delusion. Unable to face the dismal
failures that they are, they partially withdraws from reality.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/abuse14.html

Question:

Doesn’t the narcissist ever feel sorry for his “victims”?

Answer:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq14.html

Question:

How does the narcissist react when he fails to obtain enough Narcissistic
Supply?

Answer:

Very much as a drug addict would react to the absence of his particular
drug.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq28.html

The narcissist then resorts to self-delusion. Unable to completely ignore
contrarian opinion and data - he transmutes them. Unable to face the dismal
failure that he is, the narcissist partially withdraws from reality. To
soothe and salve the pain of disillusionment, he administers to his aching
soul a mixture of lies, distortions, half-truths and outlandish
interpretations of events around him. These solutions can be classified
thus:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/journal42.html

Paranoid ideation - the narcissist’s deep-rooted conviction that he is being
persecuted by his inferiors, detractors, or powerful ill-wishers - serves
two psychodynamic purposes. It upholds the narcissist’s grandiosity and it
fends off intimacy.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/journal60.html

Narcissistic Supply is exciting. When it is available, the narcissist feels
elated, omnipotent, omniscient, handsome, sexy, adventurous, invincible, and
irresistible. When it is missing, the narcissist first enters a manic phase
of trying to replenish his supply and, if he fails, the narcissist shrivels,
withdraws and is reduced to a zombie-like state of numbness.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/adrenalinejunkie.html

In general, there is a strong compulsive strand in the narcissist’s
behaviour. He is driven to exorcise internal demons by means of ritualistic
acts. The narcissist’s very pursuit of Narcissistic Supply is compulsive.
The narcissist seeks to recreate and reenact old traumas, ancient,
unresolved conflicts with figures of (primary) importance in his life.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq30.html

Unpredictability

The narcissist acts unpredictably, capriciously, inconsistently and
irrationally. This serves to demolish in others their carefully crafted
worldview. They become dependent upon the next twist and turn of the
narcissist, his inexplicable whims, his outbursts, denial, or smiles.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq6.html

----- Original Message -----
From: “gypsy” npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality

#97

I used the book, “Narcissism Revisited” as a reference when I was sooooo frustrated over the mind games that was going on and the way I was sucked in. Great book; great tool.

#98

Sam said (ill advisedly, IMHO)

The narcissist’s user’s manual has actually been published in 1999. It is
titled “Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited”.

Sadly, the user manual for Schmuel Vaknin is no more accurate than those provided with any other mainboard even as related to the specific hardware for which it is written (and if you don’t believe me…FINE…YOU get his Hard drive light and his reset switch to work so). This being so, applying it to more generic concepts such as NPD could be could be very misleading and may actually cause damage to your system.

GD

#99

Mamolie,

I don’t have any problem with Susiejo calling me “Blixten”, I don’t even have a problem with you and your friends calling me “The B -Unit” on your own board.

GD

#100

The shy, covert, closet, deflated, or inverted narcissists is a FULL FLEDGED
narcissist. Read this:

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq66.html

Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: “nic” npd-cpt6829@lists.careplace.com
To: palma@unet.com.mk
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [npd] Victim Mentality